Portable AC Generator Grounding in the bed of my pickup

BlowMeAway

BlowMeAway

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Nov 30, 2015
1,341
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
I discovered a shocking requirement in the owners manual for my Duramax XP4400E. Do I really need to pound a grounding rod into terra firma and attach a 12 gauge wire to the generator chassis as shown in the image below? I was hoping to simply start the generator in the bed of my pickup truck, hook up my 30 amp shore power cable to the generator to provide 120v AC and charge up the batteries on board with the existing charging system. We're dewinterizing the boat for launch in a couple weeks. The boat batteries remained on board all winter, although disconnected. Thanks in advance for relative advice.

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C

Chief RA

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Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
I have never had a problem running generators without grounding. Chief
 
Ken Cross

Ken Cross

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Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
In the world of electronics, we sometimes isolate out projects from earth via an isolation transformer. This is often done for safety. I can't think of a scenario where safety would be improved by adding the earth ground unless it's to protect you from getting shocked from the generator chassis if the hot side is grounded on your boat. So don't let anyone touch the generator.
 
C

Chief RA

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Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Another point to this discussion is modern RV generators are clad in plastic so touching a metal area is limited. If any charge is present it would likely be static and of low potential. Chief
 
Gunni

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Yes, who wants to be the missing man at Thanksgiving dinner! All that tsk-tskin' about poor old uncle Blow-me-away crispin' up down at the boatyard. Put it on the ground and bury a ground wire into the dirt and water it. These things need a ground when they are on a boat too.
 
centerline

centerline

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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
a couple of things here..... there are rubber mounting bushings between the generator/motor and the frame its mounted in, AND there are rubber feet on the generator frame that it sets on. all these rubber isolaters will normally isolate the generator WITHOUT a path to ground, so if there is ever a failure within the generating circuit, it can energize the exterior of the genset and the user WILL BECOME the path to ground when they touch it.
the grounding rod is supposed to insure that if there is a failure within the generator, it will not cause harm to the user.

contrary to the instructions, we all use our portable gensets without an exterior ground, but the potential for electric shock/electrocution, however remote and slim it might be, is still there.... the ground rod is supposed to eliminate it.
permanently installed gensets should ALWAYS be grounded.

a genset operating in the bed of a pickup is very little different than one setting and operating on the ground...
its a small liability issue, but in the odd chance that there is a problem, if the user didnt follow the instructions that were supplied by the manufacture in the use of the product, the manufacture is released from the liability of any damages... or until a larger, more expensive team of lawyers decide differently.
 
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C

Chief RA

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Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Just how far do you want to go in the interest of safety on such a low risk situation? I don't worry about it. Do what you want! Chief
 
BlowMeAway

BlowMeAway

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Nov 30, 2015
1,341
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
Great arguments fellas. Thanks!!!

Just to add a bit more information. As @centerline has indicated the generator is well insulated from the ground by rubber chassis mounts, rubber pads on support blocks, and two rubber tires. The bed of the truck has a rubber liner. The boat is on the hard in an asphalt parking lot, supported by an iron cradle placed on cinder blocks. We are not in the water. So I'm leaning towards a trip to Lowes today for a copper rod and some wire, since nothing actually goes to ground. The generator is shown below as well as the placement of the H30C.

Additional commentary certainly welcomed.

Best Regards....Crispy Critter indeed!!! Too funny

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rgranger

rgranger

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Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Get you one of these

upload_2017-4-20_11-48-35.jpeg


to crimp your wire to a short piece of rebar ...for the stake.
 
wsmac

wsmac

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Feb 16, 2017
134
Hunter 28.5 Humboldt
You could just run your truck into the ground and leave it at that... but if you like your truck and want to keep driving it... maybe not?
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I read the OSHA link... pretty much what I thought and now I have the DotGuv to back me up... THANKS!
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Still.... like others have said... it is electricity so just be mindful of that, play safe, and don't worry about the grounding rod... PROVIDING your gennie is in it's proper state.
 
centerline

centerline

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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
BlowMeAway said:
I guess I should have waited for this reply as well. Thanks, very interesting. Maybe not heading to Lowes. I'll wait for additional commentary.
Click to expand
personally, I dont use a ground and never have on my generators, and one of them is usually being used while setting in the back of my pickup... it falls into the catagory that there is never a problem until there IS a problem...
 
Johnb

Johnb

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Jan 22, 2008
1,456
Hunter 37-cutter Richmond CA
If you go to the trouble of providing a ground, and if the neutral is properly bonded to the ground within the generator then do use a GFCI plugged into the generator outlet to complete the safety system.

Good points have been made above. I have many time used a portable generator for a single tool or battery charger without grounding it. If however, I was going to use it to power the boats electrical distribution system which has a "whole lot of stuff" hooked to it I would go the grounding and GFCI route.
 
Charles Erwin

Charles Erwin

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Jan 30, 2012
1,139
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
The ground lug is there so that if the unit were used to supply standby power to a building wiring system the ground lug provides a means to comply with the national electrical code. If the building transfer switch breaks the building neutral there is no longer a neutral to ground bond at the source - which is now the generator. In that case - since the generator neutral is not bonded to the building ground rod - there needs to be a separate earth driven rod and the ground/neutral solidly bonded together at the standby generator itself.

But -- if the generator is used as a portable generator (you are using an extension cord to plug into the generator receptacles) then the ground lug to earth driven ground rod is not required IF the ground and the neutral are BOTH bonded solid to the frame of the generator.

Charles
 
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wsmac

wsmac

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Feb 16, 2017
134
Hunter 28.5 Humboldt
Charles Erwin said:
The ground lug is there so that if the unit were used to supply standby power to a building wiring system the ground lug provides a means to comply with the national electrical code. If the building transfer switch breaks the building neutral there is no longer a neutral to ground bond at the source - which is now the generator. In that case - since the generator neutral is not bonded to the building ground rod - there needs to be a separate earth driven rod and the ground/neutral solidly bonded together at the standby generator itself.

But -- if the generator is used as a portable generator (you are using an extension cord to plug into the generator receptacles) then the ground lug to earth driven ground rod is not required IF the ground and the neutral are BOTH bonded solid to the frame of the generator.

Charles
Click to expand
Did you type that all in one breath? ;)
Good stuff!
 
uncledom

uncledom

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Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
Charles :plus:
You turn on your gen, you plug in grandpa's steel cased antique drill, you arm/leg brushes against a water pipe that sticks out of the ground near your boat which is on the hard. There happens to be a 60 volt difference between your gen ground/neutral and the marina's ground/neutral and you get dead.
 
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BlowMeAway

BlowMeAway

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Nov 30, 2015
1,341
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
Charles Erwin said:
The ground lug is there so that if the unit were used to supply standby power to a building wiring system the ground lug provides a means to comply with the national electrical code. If the building transfer switch breaks the building neutral there is no longer a neutral to ground bond at the source - which is now the generator. In that case - since the generator neutral is not bonded to the building ground rod - there needs to be a separate earth driven rod and the ground/neutral solidly bonded together at the standby generator itself.

But -- if the generator is used as a portable generator (you are using an extension cord to plug into the generator receptacles) then the ground lug to earth driven ground rod is not required IF the ground and the neutral are BOTH bonded solid to the frame of the generator.

Charles
Click to expand
Awesome response and explained so that I understand. Thank you @Charles Erwin. This is great news. I do not have any steel cased Grandpa tools. My power tools are all double insulated and in flawless condition, although referred to currently as Grandpa tools. So I think the point of this whole thread is to realize that the boat AC system is nothing more than an appliance to which an ungrounded portable generator will provide power. My intent is to only power the on board battery charger. We do have a microwave, a couple of AC fans, and the water heater which is only AC operated. Nothing else!

This gave me the warm fuzzy I needed. Thanks again...Wayne.
:worship:

You'll hear from the Admiral if things aren't as they seem. LOL!!!
 
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