We've selected a name and applied it to the sides of our sailboat, and would now like to add the "port of call" lettering to the transom. What is considered the proper name to display at that location - the name of the city in which we actually live, or the name of the city in which our marina is located? We see the names of many different cities on the transoms of boats that "live" in our marina, many of those cities landlocked and obviously not "where they used to be berthed". Are there legal considerations, traditions, or just the whim of the owners that weigh in on this decision?
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Is your boat documented?
If documented by the USCG, then you must use the port that the boat resides. If you use only state registration, then I believe you can use any city you choose in most states.
If documented by the USCG, then you must use the port that the boat resides. If you use only state registration, then I believe you can use any city you choose in most states.
Can be anyplace, water not required
Link is to USCG Documentation center. You can home port it anyplace that's not obscene, profane or resembles emergency hailing. So you can't homeport or name the vessel "mayday" but you can use your residence on land as the homeport.
Link is to USCG Documentation center. You can home port it anyplace that's not obscene, profane or resembles emergency hailing. So you can't homeport or name the vessel "mayday" but you can use your residence on land as the homeport.
Together
and I quote, "The name and hailing port of a recreational vessel must be marked together ,,," If the boat is documented and you encounter a law enforcement official who is a stickler for details you will learn that the name on the side and the hailing port on the transom is NOT considered "together." I have first-hand experience. If, on the other hand, you are not documenting, I think it looks just fine to do the name on the sides and the hailing port on the transom.
and I quote, "The name and hailing port of a recreational vessel must be marked together ,,," If the boat is documented and you encounter a law enforcement official who is a stickler for details you will learn that the name on the side and the hailing port on the transom is NOT considered "together." I have first-hand experience. If, on the other hand, you are not documenting, I think it looks just fine to do the name on the sides and the hailing port on the transom.
Current CA Fashion
...at least down south on newer boats (particularily those with open transoms, Gord) is to put the name on the side and hailing port on the transom. The hailing port no longer needs to be where the boat was documented. I would recommend your harbor. It is what people expect, and dockmasters and the such use. Besides, it's more fun to figure out where the new boat comming into the anchorage hails from rather than where the owner lives. Some people (me) put the YC burgee and letters on the transom too. Rick D.
...at least down south on newer boats (particularily those with open transoms, Gord) is to put the name on the side and hailing port on the transom. The hailing port no longer needs to be where the boat was documented. I would recommend your harbor. It is what people expect, and dockmasters and the such use. Besides, it's more fun to figure out where the new boat comming into the anchorage hails from rather than where the owner lives. Some people (me) put the YC burgee and letters on the transom too. Rick D.
NO-NO-NO
They may be doing it this way, but it is definitely not legal and you can be cited (although I've never heard of anyone being cited). I checked directly with the CG documentation office and was told that they had to be together. If you want them on the side you will have to put the hailing port on at least one side or do as I did. I put the name on both sides in large letters and on the the transom with the hailing port (in minimum size letters). I've got a Cat 320 and it worked out pretty well.
They may be doing it this way, but it is definitely not legal and you can be cited (although I've never heard of anyone being cited). I checked directly with the CG documentation office and was told that they had to be together. If you want them on the side you will have to put the hailing port on at least one side or do as I did. I put the name on both sides in large letters and on the the transom with the hailing port (in minimum size letters). I've got a Cat 320 and it worked out pretty well.
Larry and Chris
Of course you are correct and thank you for pointing that out. Having said that, the custom is what it is and probably 20% of the sail boats follow this template (and about 75% of new). Remember that this was a lot more important when everything was paper and there were strict rules on hailing ports. Frankly, it's not even relevant now, nor is the name as much as the documentation number. As you point out, I suspect it is so far down the priority list, it never sees day. BTW, I and many others have been through many a CG exam w/o this being an issue. Rick D.
Of course you are correct and thank you for pointing that out. Having said that, the custom is what it is and probably 20% of the sail boats follow this template (and about 75% of new). Remember that this was a lot more important when everything was paper and there were strict rules on hailing ports. Frankly, it's not even relevant now, nor is the name as much as the documentation number. As you point out, I suspect it is so far down the priority list, it never sees day. BTW, I and many others have been through many a CG exam w/o this being an issue. Rick D.
Hailing port? Name & Port together?
So if you move your boat every couple years to a different marina, ie Chesapeake, NJ shore ect., I guess you strip the old hailing port off, compound the shadowing out and repaint it. "Must be displayed together." How far apart is no longer together with a sugar scoop transom? At some point reasonable has to kick in, doesn't it? I would consider the name on the stern side and the hailing port on the transom 4' away together. Bet ya there is more than 4' between them on the ships. Most documented recreational boats with the cut out transom are going with the name on the side stern and the hailing port on the transom.
So if you move your boat every couple years to a different marina, ie Chesapeake, NJ shore ect., I guess you strip the old hailing port off, compound the shadowing out and repaint it. "Must be displayed together." How far apart is no longer together with a sugar scoop transom? At some point reasonable has to kick in, doesn't it? I would consider the name on the stern side and the hailing port on the transom 4' away together. Bet ya there is more than 4' between them on the ships. Most documented recreational boats with the cut out transom are going with the name on the side stern and the hailing port on the transom.
Murphy was a real person.
He was an engineer involved in the rocket sled tests. Experience has taught me that he likely was an optimist. The regs are what they are. The Coasties have an official interpretation of what 'together' means in the sailboat context, I took the time to email an inquiry and get it directly from the horse's, hmmm, one end or the other. If you have the bad luck to be boarded by one having a bad day, no 'logic' is going to disuade them from citing you and it will be an expensive lesson. Tradition, neccessity, even foolishness carry no weight here. After mentally grumbling about all those issues myself, I decided to play it safe and it turned out looking pretty good. The added benefit is that the name will show up well in pictures of her rafted up <grin>. On a related theme, we had a discussion on the Catalina 320 list about where to put the documentation numbers for those who did not like them in the salon. The cockpit locker is approved by the CG, with the qualification that it must be readily visible when you open the locker. I keep a copy of that email on my boat on the assumption that some officious boarder will have their own interpretation.
He was an engineer involved in the rocket sled tests. Experience has taught me that he likely was an optimist. The regs are what they are. The Coasties have an official interpretation of what 'together' means in the sailboat context, I took the time to email an inquiry and get it directly from the horse's, hmmm, one end or the other. If you have the bad luck to be boarded by one having a bad day, no 'logic' is going to disuade them from citing you and it will be an expensive lesson. Tradition, neccessity, even foolishness carry no weight here. After mentally grumbling about all those issues myself, I decided to play it safe and it turned out looking pretty good. The added benefit is that the name will show up well in pictures of her rafted up <grin>. On a related theme, we had a discussion on the Catalina 320 list about where to put the documentation numbers for those who did not like them in the salon. The cockpit locker is approved by the CG, with the qualification that it must be readily visible when you open the locker. I keep a copy of that email on my boat on the assumption that some officious boarder will have their own interpretation.
If on One Side
It should be on the Port side as that is the side the Coast Guard will aproach on. I am not sure it meets the requirements seems it should be on both sides to me. A call to your local Coast Guard Station may be a good idea as they are the ones you are most likely to come in contact with. Make a note of the name who you spoke with in case another Coastie has a different opinion.
It should be on the Port side as that is the side the Coast Guard will aproach on. I am not sure it meets the requirements seems it should be on both sides to me. A call to your local Coast Guard Station may be a good idea as they are the ones you are most likely to come in contact with. Make a note of the name who you spoke with in case another Coastie has a different opinion.
Hailing port (documented)
I think Rick Dinon does not quite understand "documented" hailing ports and what documentation is all about and its rules. On a documented vessel the hailing port may identify a vessel of the same name but of other hailing ports for I.D. There are no duplicate name and hailing ports of documented vessels. To change a hailing port on a documented vessel requires a bit of paper work with the documentation office and a fee involved. ON A DOCUMENTED VESSEL YOU CANNOT CHANGE HAILING PORT WITHOUT PERMISSION!!!!!!!! Maybe Rick reads documentation as registration / documents? I enjoy having documentation as I don't have to put the state numbers on my bow or any where else as you would non documented vessels. The hailing port is a very important identifier to the agencies involved. If you have changed the hailing port of a documented vessel without following protocol you may put a routine courtesy inspection into a suspicious non routine stop by the officers involved....they won't have a sense of humor as they are part of the "Homeland Security". Al M. reply has a USCG link the well explains any questions you all may have.
I think Rick Dinon does not quite understand "documented" hailing ports and what documentation is all about and its rules. On a documented vessel the hailing port may identify a vessel of the same name but of other hailing ports for I.D. There are no duplicate name and hailing ports of documented vessels. To change a hailing port on a documented vessel requires a bit of paper work with the documentation office and a fee involved. ON A DOCUMENTED VESSEL YOU CANNOT CHANGE HAILING PORT WITHOUT PERMISSION!!!!!!!! Maybe Rick reads documentation as registration / documents? I enjoy having documentation as I don't have to put the state numbers on my bow or any where else as you would non documented vessels. The hailing port is a very important identifier to the agencies involved. If you have changed the hailing port of a documented vessel without following protocol you may put a routine courtesy inspection into a suspicious non routine stop by the officers involved....they won't have a sense of humor as they are part of the "Homeland Security". Al M. reply has a USCG link the well explains any questions you all may have.
while in the process
of documenting my boat I read that if you are caught with a port of call different from the port of call listed with the CG it is a $10,000 fine PER DAY! it may not be enforced but, I wouldnt be the one to chance it.
of documenting my boat I read that if you are caught with a port of call different from the port of call listed with the CG it is a $10,000 fine PER DAY! it may not be enforced but, I wouldnt be the one to chance it.
Tim are you *sure* there are no duplicate
name and hailing ports of documented vessels. Take a look here http://www.st.nmfs.gov/st1/commercial/landings/cg_vessel2.html There are about 6 "tranquility"'s from New York, NY. I'm sure that there are some even more popular name with duplicate's. Click on the link below for more Documented Vessel Query's But I think it would be even more rare to have the exact same type "boat" AND "year" AND "name" AND "hailing port". But it is not impossible I do agree with your statement "ON A DOCUMENTED VESSEL YOU CANNOT CHANGE HAILING PORT WITHOUT PERMISSION"
name and hailing ports of documented vessels. Take a look here http://www.st.nmfs.gov/st1/commercial/landings/cg_vessel2.html There are about 6 "tranquility"'s from New York, NY. I'm sure that there are some even more popular name with duplicate's. Click on the link below for more Documented Vessel Query's But I think it would be even more rare to have the exact same type "boat" AND "year" AND "name" AND "hailing port". But it is not impossible I do agree with your statement "ON A DOCUMENTED VESSEL YOU CANNOT CHANGE HAILING PORT WITHOUT PERMISSION"
resons to document?
Are there Tax issues with documentation? (like a break). how about insurance? I typically only LARGE vessels documented. (you dont buy a state licence, correct?)
Are there Tax issues with documentation? (like a break). how about insurance? I typically only LARGE vessels documented. (you dont buy a state licence, correct?)
Tim. What I Meant Was
What I was referring to regarding the flexibility in 'hailing port' designations was this: in decades past, my recollection is that the hailing port was actually where the CG regional office was. It did not necessarily conform to your marina. It is my understanding that aspect is what changed, and you can now select your 'hailing port' location. Maybe some other old timer can true that up; my memory may be flawed. (BTW, of course I agree you can't just change the hailing port. You must go through the CG application process.) Rick D.
What I was referring to regarding the flexibility in 'hailing port' designations was this: in decades past, my recollection is that the hailing port was actually where the CG regional office was. It did not necessarily conform to your marina. It is my understanding that aspect is what changed, and you can now select your 'hailing port' location. Maybe some other old timer can true that up; my memory may be flawed. (BTW, of course I agree you can't just change the hailing port. You must go through the CG application process.) Rick D.
uscg
I saw in a post that there are serveral opions and one of you said you contacted the uscg doc office. If you call back you will probably get a different answer from every person there you talk to. I am still waiting on my documentation papers from them. They told me I was not allowed to use my boat until I recieved the papers. Well I bought my boat may 2nd of last year and am still waiting. There was a supposable lien on my boat. The folks at the doc center said they had never recieved proof that the lien was satisfied. My personal opinion is that they don't have enough help and keep putting out fires with gasoline. The bank had showed proof that the lien was satisfied. Anyhow I'm still sailing....
I saw in a post that there are serveral opions and one of you said you contacted the uscg doc office. If you call back you will probably get a different answer from every person there you talk to. I am still waiting on my documentation papers from them. They told me I was not allowed to use my boat until I recieved the papers. Well I bought my boat may 2nd of last year and am still waiting. There was a supposable lien on my boat. The folks at the doc center said they had never recieved proof that the lien was satisfied. My personal opinion is that they don't have enough help and keep putting out fires with gasoline. The bank had showed proof that the lien was satisfied. Anyhow I'm still sailing....
The answer is prestige Bill
Bill Cooper never mentioned anything about documented boats. He just saw boats with home ports far from any body of water. Boat owners that keep their boat in lowly Detroit like to put Birmingham or West Bloomfield MI on their transom. Two communities that have much more prestige. People like to put the city where they live as a home port rather than the boat yard where the boat is moored. I would rather be having fun racing someone and notice he is from the same port and maybe look him up after we got in. How can I do that if his home port is 150 miles away from any water.
Bill Cooper never mentioned anything about documented boats. He just saw boats with home ports far from any body of water. Boat owners that keep their boat in lowly Detroit like to put Birmingham or West Bloomfield MI on their transom. Two communities that have much more prestige. People like to put the city where they live as a home port rather than the boat yard where the boat is moored. I would rather be having fun racing someone and notice he is from the same port and maybe look him up after we got in. How can I do that if his home port is 150 miles away from any water.
Reason to Document
If you finance your boat, the finance company will require you to document with the coast guard. It protects them and you. Coast guard documentation is much like title insurance on land - it researches the vessel and will discover if there has been a lien placed against the boat.
If you finance your boat, the finance company will require you to document with the coast guard. It protects them and you. Coast guard documentation is much like title insurance on land - it researches the vessel and will discover if there has been a lien placed against the boat.
Prestige?
This is the Huntalina board, isn't it? Documentation is done to beat the sales tax and state registration, right?
This is the Huntalina board, isn't it? Documentation is done to beat the sales tax and state registration, right?
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