poor pointing ability of 41DS

[sailor5017]

HAs any one else discovered that the 41Ds line of boats has a poor pointing ability?
We discovered this while racing with other cruising type boats . My thought it is caused by the 110 head sail and the high cut clew of the sail. The sails
were properly trimmed and adjusted. We had to sail 3 to 5 degrees lower that comparable other boats to keep the tell tales flying .. do you think a 120 head sail with the clew cut closer to the deck would help?

 

[FastOlson]

Per your bio, your Hunter is now about 7 years old. If it has been sailed actively the factory sails have probably lost most of their shape and performance.

Note that the factory did *not* allow much in their equipment budget for sails in the first place.
Usually it is dacron from the lowest bidder (anyone else remember all those mediocre "Johnson Red Arrow" sails on the early Hunters? -- Heavy Sigh...)

While they might look "ok" when hoisted, such a loss is hard to see from the deck. A trained and experienced sailmaker can advise you further.
Having the shape migrate and reduce pointing is one of the primary ways that their wear-and-stretching is going to show up.

On both our present and prior boats, we had to have the main sails recut and reseamed once while we saved up for a new sails.

Fair winds.
Loren

 

[Jackdaw]

5017,

Don't underestimate the role of your mainsail when it comes to pointing. If it is out of trim on a fractional boat you cannot point well at all. In moderate and light airs, your boom should be on the centerline of the boat (traveler to windward), and the top batten should be parallel with the boom (set twist with sheet tension), with the top telltail mostly flying but flickering backwards. That will give you maximum point from your main.

 

[Rick]

What a nice boat! And if you bought it to race then you made a mistake! Put the main on the edge of a luff in a close reach and trim the headsail to max. Should see just a bit of flow backfilling the main. Right on the edge. Although Hunter has gone cheap on occasion, your rig is designed around a big main, and 110 jib. You may overpower the rig by changing this greatly. Your keel, if it is a shoal draft, sets you back a bit. Use the traveler wisely after setting the twist in the main. She can point. But she is a big pretty cruiser and the J's cant hold a candle in comfort. Go for a PHRF handicap and watch the trophys roll in.

Jackdaw
You have a Beneteau, and that means your engine is your Genny. Not so on a Hunter. The engine is the main. Setting the main is foremost, then set the Jib to the slot. And the top batten on the Hunter main can vary greatly depending on the year of the boat. Just putting the main to center is not always the best sail trim because it is just not there for show. Your tips are spot on though adapted to a Hunter!

IMHO of course.



Cheers

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw
You have a Beneteau, and that means your engine is your Genny. Not so on a Hunter. The engine is the main. Setting the main is foremost, then set the Jib to the slot. And the top batten on the Hunter main can vary greatly depending on the year of the boat. Just putting the main to center is not always the best sail trim because it is just not there for show. Your tips are spot on though adapted to a Hunter!

Rick, Like all modern Beneteau First-series racer/cruisers, the First 36.7 is a Farr design fractional rig. That's the way we set her to point high and go-fast. It adopts to most fractional boats (like the 41), with a little personal touch. But that the fun part, right?? ;^)

 

[Rick]

@Jackdaw

Spot on mate! It is the fun part for sure! Did not mean to in anyway to belittle your wisdom. Some times people get confused when talking sail trim say between a Catalina, Bene, or other boats that have Gennys up front when most Hunters are not set up that way.

Going tomorrow for a week. Forecast is partly cloudy skies and a nice 10 knot breeze for the week in San Diego. Beercans on Wednesday I hope.

Hope I can sleep tonight!

 

[Butch23065]

I have an AC Hunter 41. Do you have the in mast roller furling main? I do. Learning to sail this boat fast was the hardest thing I've done while sailing. Two points mentioned are spot on. I had to replace both the main and the jib in less than 2 years. I bought the boat new. The new sails added approximately 1 to 1 1/2 knots to my boat speed in 10 - 15 knots of air. It also allowed me to point at least 5 degrees higher. I had the sail maker drop the clew of the jib about 1 foot lower. That made it just over 110.

Now for the other point. You do need to use the main. Vang it down to keep your lower tell tails flying. Adjust the outhaul according to the wind strength, flatter in heavier air with more twist. Ease the traveler or main sheet to keep from rounding up or using too much rudder.

Don't try to point as high as some of the others with deeper drafts and large overlapping jibs. I found I can out run them if I fall off a couple of degrees. I higher air once you build up some speed, it takes a while, the wing keel will start to work and let you point with them.

We just took 1st place in the PHRF cruising class in three regattas and our club series. Your boat will sail fast. If you don't have battens in the main, talk to your sailmaker. Find someone local that has a good rep, likes to race and is willing to spend some time with you.

Butch

 

[SVONDA]

Had the same problem with my 460. Remove the headsail and get your sailmaker to remove the luff-tape and boltrope. When the sail is pegged out flat there should be at least 12'' of hollow in the luff shape. I found both my 110% and staysail had at least 9" of round! I recut both luffs used the same sheeting angles and picked up 5-10 degrees windward angle depending on sea condition. Good luck.

 

[sailor5017]

update

I guess i should have given more information.. boat is in mast furling vertical battens. Full keel 7 ft draft it seems to have a good amount of speed when when not pinching it up.. and we are racing in a cruising division. however iam not going to go out and spend a lot of money for new sails.. i will talk to my sailmaker ( north sails) about doing the mod to headsail next winter..

really appreciate the replies

ps we did get a second and third in the race,.. (7 boats)

 

[Butch23065]

Re: update

Second and third isn't too bad. If I place, I feel like the boat did it's part and then I look at what I could have done better, the start, roundings, etc.
I have the shoal keel. That deep keel of yours should be a killer. Be carefull not to pinch. The keel generates lift based on speed. The more speed the more lift, to a point. If you are pinching and going slow you will have so much lee way you won't be able to point with a lot of the others. Fall off, get your speed up and the angle of attack may not change but the course you sail should be higher. Remember, pointing doesn't just mean the direction the bow is pointing, it is the course you sail.