I'll try this way:
How rough do conditions get before you say "Enough already!"
How do you decide to go home?
How rough do conditions get before you say "Enough already!"
How do you decide to go home?
Poll: How rough is too rough for you?
- Thread starter Ken13569
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Depends upon to many factors to give a "set" answer? Who is my crew? In a bay or in the open ocean? How deep is the ocean where I am? What boat am I on? What is the sail inventory? What is the wave period? My comfort level usually depends upon my crews comfort level.....
When a single wave can stop a motoring 4500 lb boat dead in its wake . . . it's time to call it. I think the conditions of the ocean should just exceed your comfort level. What I mean is, when you feel challenged, don't stray too far. When you get scared, drop tail (oops, I mean sail) and motor in. Don't be a wuss, but don't be a fool.
3 days in winds from 25 to 45 and seas up to 25 feet in a J-36 with two other people and five days out of Virginia and no choice but to continue to the Virgins. The boat handled it well. Had to hand steer and conserve electricity because we could not run the engine to charge batteries. The crew also handled it well. Out there you have options. In a bay or close to shore I would not be out there.
Im my 51 footer with only my wife we sailed to Venezuela and hit 50 knots of wind. Again, hand steer and play the waves. We did stop 250 miles from no where to rescue two fisherman in a 25' pirogue with a seized engine. They had been out there for ten days and were still able to climb to our boat and we towed their boat all the way to Venezuela. Again, depends on where you are. We did get two extra drivers.
Im my 51 footer with only my wife we sailed to Venezuela and hit 50 knots of wind. Again, hand steer and play the waves. We did stop 250 miles from no where to rescue two fisherman in a 25' pirogue with a seized engine. They had been out there for ten days and were still able to climb to our boat and we towed their boat all the way to Venezuela. Again, depends on where you are. We did get two extra drivers.
I agree with Maine Sail.
As the business consultants say in answer to any question: "It depends."
Last Spring we got beat up pretty badly taking 7 hours to get from Nantucket to Martha's Vineyard (28nm) "riding" a 2kt ebb against 30kts from the W. They were "only 4ft seas." (And about 4-5 sec apart in shallow Nantucket Sound - less to us, due to our going against them.)
My wife's dirty look told me that that was certainly too much, when Rick at Black Dog Wharf said: "Aren't you the hearty sailors! I tried to take my board out, but it was too rough for me."
This past Sunday, coming back from our annual September Maine cruise, we surfed 6ft almost-following seas in NE 18-22 from Portland to Kennebunkport in 4hrs (30nm). Those "6ft seas" were nothing - although I had to keep my wife on pot-buoy watch to prevent her from looking astern to see them coming - it was a blast.
Wave height is less important than apparent period (actual period modified by boat velocity with or against). So 10 fathom coastal waters with gradual, sandy beaches (S of Cape Elizabeth) are different than 20 fathoms-plus with bold shores (coasts N of Cape Elizabeth).
Simply having wind also is important; sailing 8ft swells on-the-beam are a piece of cake when there's enough wind to keep the boat heeled. Motoring in them in light air - even with mainsail up to provide a stabilizer fin - can get unpleasant for less experienced stomachs.
A lot also depends on how you're rigged.
When I took delivery of Persephone (8250nm ago, in 2005) I had Doyle make me a suite of sails good from 3-to-30kts, and I can personally attest to the fact that they meet the spec. (490 sq-ft all-full-batten mainsail with 3 reef points and 305 sq-ft jib with foam luff - both of 8.8oz Type 52 Dacron - plus 850sq-ft asymmetric spinnaker of 3/4 oz Nylon with snuffer sock.)
I have every control imaginable led aft to the cockpit, and only go forward to rig the spinnaker or whisker pole. I also have permanent SS jacklines rigged for use with my 4ft tethers that keep me near the centerline and away from the lifelines (which are also laced with wire forward of the shrouds, for unplanned foredeck adventures).
(I added the permanent centerline jackline after my boom parted from the gooseneck on a 2-reefed beam reach after rounding Cape Small in to Bailey's Island a few years ago. I didn't find my "conventional wisdom" sidedeck jacklines confidence-inspiring while on the cabin-top trying to jam a screwdriver into the holes vacated by the errant hinge-pin.)
Having confidence in your boat's reactions to stressful conditions - through personal experience, rather than hearsay - is extremely important.
I have a boat in which I've been pinned on one side by a summer thunderstorm's downdraft, and so know how she handles such things (calmly fore-reaching with a dry cockpit, until I could crawl forward to release the mainsheet).
As a result, until it's gale force (which requires me to avoid wind-on-the beam to have good steering - even with my big spade rudder), I generally don't pay a lot of attention to wind speed per se, but more to sea state in deciding whether or not to go out. (The photo in my avatar was taken out by the Isles of Shoals in Force 6 gusting to 7, but only 2-3ft seas.)
I always progressively reef-down the main, rather than simply dropping. Then, when I go out, I can hoist it to 3-reefed to start in heavy air, before putting up more sail by shaking out reefs. Much better than full-hoist followed by frantic reefing exercises. (I also have a mainsail downhaul for dousing quickly in heavy air.)
Before going out, I look at relevant dial-a-buoys for wave height and period (real data is better than forecasts), and at whether or not I'm single-handing or must account for the comfort of others.
Whatever your current threshold, I firmly believe in progressively increasing the conditions in which you practice (single-handed, to avoid complications) until you are comfortable with your boat and your ability to handle her in conditions beyond those in which you plan to normally sail.
Mother Atlantic is fickle, and doesn't check in with the National Weather Service when she changes her mind. (Sunday's forecast was NE14 with 3-4ft seas.)
Fair winds,
Al - s/v Persephone
As the business consultants say in answer to any question: "It depends."
Last Spring we got beat up pretty badly taking 7 hours to get from Nantucket to Martha's Vineyard (28nm) "riding" a 2kt ebb against 30kts from the W. They were "only 4ft seas." (And about 4-5 sec apart in shallow Nantucket Sound - less to us, due to our going against them.)
My wife's dirty look told me that that was certainly too much, when Rick at Black Dog Wharf said: "Aren't you the hearty sailors! I tried to take my board out, but it was too rough for me."
This past Sunday, coming back from our annual September Maine cruise, we surfed 6ft almost-following seas in NE 18-22 from Portland to Kennebunkport in 4hrs (30nm). Those "6ft seas" were nothing - although I had to keep my wife on pot-buoy watch to prevent her from looking astern to see them coming - it was a blast.
Wave height is less important than apparent period (actual period modified by boat velocity with or against). So 10 fathom coastal waters with gradual, sandy beaches (S of Cape Elizabeth) are different than 20 fathoms-plus with bold shores (coasts N of Cape Elizabeth).
Simply having wind also is important; sailing 8ft swells on-the-beam are a piece of cake when there's enough wind to keep the boat heeled. Motoring in them in light air - even with mainsail up to provide a stabilizer fin - can get unpleasant for less experienced stomachs.
A lot also depends on how you're rigged.
When I took delivery of Persephone (8250nm ago, in 2005) I had Doyle make me a suite of sails good from 3-to-30kts, and I can personally attest to the fact that they meet the spec. (490 sq-ft all-full-batten mainsail with 3 reef points and 305 sq-ft jib with foam luff - both of 8.8oz Type 52 Dacron - plus 850sq-ft asymmetric spinnaker of 3/4 oz Nylon with snuffer sock.)
I have every control imaginable led aft to the cockpit, and only go forward to rig the spinnaker or whisker pole. I also have permanent SS jacklines rigged for use with my 4ft tethers that keep me near the centerline and away from the lifelines (which are also laced with wire forward of the shrouds, for unplanned foredeck adventures).
(I added the permanent centerline jackline after my boom parted from the gooseneck on a 2-reefed beam reach after rounding Cape Small in to Bailey's Island a few years ago. I didn't find my "conventional wisdom" sidedeck jacklines confidence-inspiring while on the cabin-top trying to jam a screwdriver into the holes vacated by the errant hinge-pin.)
Having confidence in your boat's reactions to stressful conditions - through personal experience, rather than hearsay - is extremely important.
I have a boat in which I've been pinned on one side by a summer thunderstorm's downdraft, and so know how she handles such things (calmly fore-reaching with a dry cockpit, until I could crawl forward to release the mainsheet).
As a result, until it's gale force (which requires me to avoid wind-on-the beam to have good steering - even with my big spade rudder), I generally don't pay a lot of attention to wind speed per se, but more to sea state in deciding whether or not to go out. (The photo in my avatar was taken out by the Isles of Shoals in Force 6 gusting to 7, but only 2-3ft seas.)
I always progressively reef-down the main, rather than simply dropping. Then, when I go out, I can hoist it to 3-reefed to start in heavy air, before putting up more sail by shaking out reefs. Much better than full-hoist followed by frantic reefing exercises. (I also have a mainsail downhaul for dousing quickly in heavy air.)
Before going out, I look at relevant dial-a-buoys for wave height and period (real data is better than forecasts), and at whether or not I'm single-handing or must account for the comfort of others.
Whatever your current threshold, I firmly believe in progressively increasing the conditions in which you practice (single-handed, to avoid complications) until you are comfortable with your boat and your ability to handle her in conditions beyond those in which you plan to normally sail.
Mother Atlantic is fickle, and doesn't check in with the National Weather Service when she changes her mind. (Sunday's forecast was NE14 with 3-4ft seas.)
Fair winds,
Al - s/v Persephone
we sailed gulf of mexico in t-storms for a few days-- we were pulling 10 kts in these storms which were packing some gusts and winds to 70 kts. was exciting-even with reefs and shortened sail.. we were pushed and pushing boat to limits --but was fun-- if you face seas at a good angle, is fun not work. on the other hand, we also, same trip--was a cruise-- faced seas and winds on nose for a full day and often longer with our forward progress being 1-2 kts motorsailing -- those arent fun but , when out in the sea, where ye gonna run to?? is going to be more work turning from it than going thru it. just make sure ye dont broach and dont bash and is more comfortable. many folks take a bashing and quit sailing--too wet and too wild...dont let mom nature get you to quit--there are ways to face the seas without such discomfort. there will be many tales and stories. always back up the weather you hear on the vhf with your own interpretation based on models and sites found online for weather. passage weather is good, wunderground is good. sailflow is good--many are good. good luck and smooth sailing.
by the way--sailing pacific is different than sailing another body of water---- we usually have large rolling seas.... not like other places wherein chop and confused seas are the norm.
by the way--sailing pacific is different than sailing another body of water---- we usually have large rolling seas.... not like other places wherein chop and confused seas are the norm.
I'm with Al. We were on our way back from Richmond Island on that fateful Sunday, in our Lancer 25. It was . . . fun. I was intent but not frightened, well, until the dinghy broke loose and I didn't notice until it was a couple of hundred yards away. We had to chase it with an intercept course before it introduced itself to the rocks. Much of the time is was beside us because it was surfing faster than we could. I wasn't frightened, but at this point in my sailing adventure, that was my upper limit.
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In the 2009 Around Long Race we started in about 40 knots which built to about 50 knots and due to the wind direction are VMG to Montalk was about 2 knots
1/2 the crew was badly seasick
It was about 50 degrees and there was no staying dry
Us and about 95% of the fleet did the smart thing and called it a day before anybody got hurt
I always did want to spend the night at a toys are us
It took about a month to get he boat dry
1/2 the crew was badly seasick
It was about 50 degrees and there was no staying dry
Us and about 95% of the fleet did the smart thing and called it a day before anybody got hurt
I always did want to spend the night at a toys are us
It took about a month to get he boat dry
When the wife says turn back. Her tolerance level is about 1/3 of the boat's capabillity. No criticism here, it works for us. If my adult son is crewing, that's a different story. We just don't go to the point of potential hazard or equipment breakage. Safety is the ultimate consideration.
I'd have to agree with this one. I'm much more risk-averse with my wife along as she's not into adrenaline or having to work "hard" on what, to her, should be a nice cruise.
With my son, however, it's often the opposite - he's all for packing on the sail and going for broke. The tall rig powers up fast though and I'm not interested in stressing the rig that much so the blade and a reef are called for if the wind gets too much about 15kts. When it gets blowing that hard we're probably faster reefed than heeled over 20+ degrees anyway.
I don't go out if I know it's going to be much over 20, partly because it gets uncomfortable on the lake, and partly because at that point it goes from fun to work. Maybe if I had an even smaller jib and a 2nd reef in the main, but maybe not.
After 6 hrs of singlehandling through 4 foot chop on the beam close hauled with 25 gusting to 32 knots on Lake Michigan trying to make New Buffalo,MI from Chicago(somehow the NOAA weather forcast didn't predict the heavier winds offshore). It was fun for awhile but by the last hour my body was telling me it was time to get my butt off the lake.
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