My 321 is a shoal draft version and i am having problems when sailing to windward, the boat simply will not point. I have 3 year old sails (admitted only crusing range), I have added cunningham control and rigged a back stay tensioner on the original twin back stays. I have seen some one mention on a web site that he had fitted fins to the standard keel profile and this helped him when racing. This boat was for sale when I saw this information and I can not find the site again. Has any one heard of these fins or does any one have them fitted if so do they work and where can I get them. We have been Racing in the Junior offshore group this season with out much luck, because there is always some point we need to go to wind and we lose out big time, friends of mine I race with were about five minutes ahead of us at Bembridge in the round the island race this year, but finished approx 40 minutes ahead of us 8 miles to windward. Two weeks ago second over the start of offshore race second into hurst narrows,wind headed last out of needles channel 3mile (some serious racers though in that fleet) 40 miles later and a missed tidal gate, 2 hours behind next finisher and most of this is due to the boat not being able to point up! Any other constructive responses would be appreciated
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b361 owner
deep keel
If you have the shoal draft then I guess the boat is fitted already with a wing keel that is a sort of bulb with 'fins'. Of course the purpose of the fins is not to improve pointing but to move more weight as low as possible. Your problem is because of the relatively short keel. I have a Beneteau 361 with 6 years old sails (in average condition), furling main sail (with all its disadvanatges for racing), however with excellent pointing ability in comparison to other boats when racing. And the reason is not due to trimming but mainly due to the fact that it is the deep keel version; that is 1,80 meters with bulb in contradiction to the 1,53 wing keel of many other 361s.
If you have the shoal draft then I guess the boat is fitted already with a wing keel that is a sort of bulb with 'fins'. Of course the purpose of the fins is not to improve pointing but to move more weight as low as possible. Your problem is because of the relatively short keel. I have a Beneteau 361 with 6 years old sails (in average condition), furling main sail (with all its disadvanatges for racing), however with excellent pointing ability in comparison to other boats when racing. And the reason is not due to trimming but mainly due to the fact that it is the deep keel version; that is 1,80 meters with bulb in contradiction to the 1,53 wing keel of many other 361s.
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Brian B321
Which headsail
I share your frustration - I've improved my handling and pointing womewhat - Variprop, Doyle/Boston square weave sails and some decent running rigging. The biggest change was going from the original 155% down to a 135% which sheets between the spreaders sailing close hauled and outside the spreaders for anything else. The variprop (or any feathering prop for the matter) makes a big dfifference on this (and most beneteaus) - because it clears up the water as it passes over the rudder instead creating turbulence 6" in front of the rudder - I have yet to loose control to "weather helm" this year I used V100 for halyards and Endura braid for sheets - Probably a little bit of overkill - but its nice to crank on a halyard and watch the draft move forward and set a sail and have it stay there with no creep The punch line - If I'm on the helm and watching telltales like a hawk I can almost tack thru about 90 degrees - As far as club racing goes - its still not good enough closehauled - but it certainly goes off the wind! - that's what you get with 4'3" Regards Brian
I share your frustration - I've improved my handling and pointing womewhat - Variprop, Doyle/Boston square weave sails and some decent running rigging. The biggest change was going from the original 155% down to a 135% which sheets between the spreaders sailing close hauled and outside the spreaders for anything else. The variprop (or any feathering prop for the matter) makes a big dfifference on this (and most beneteaus) - because it clears up the water as it passes over the rudder instead creating turbulence 6" in front of the rudder - I have yet to loose control to "weather helm" this year I used V100 for halyards and Endura braid for sheets - Probably a little bit of overkill - but its nice to crank on a halyard and watch the draft move forward and set a sail and have it stay there with no creep The punch line - If I'm on the helm and watching telltales like a hawk I can almost tack thru about 90 degrees - As far as club racing goes - its still not good enough closehauled - but it certainly goes off the wind! - that's what you get with 4'3" Regards Brian
Shoal Draft
I do find that our Beneteau 323 does lose way to windward when we are close hauled and heeling heavily. I would have preferred the full draft (I think its 5'11"), but we have only 5 feet of water at low tide at our dock and we went with the standard shoal draft at 4'9". I find that when my dad, brother and law and I are sailing we have an easier time keeping her flat, because we are big guys and have enough weight on the high side. But if its my mom, sister, or I sailing, I find its difficult to manage the heel(and hence we lose pointing distance). So you may just want to recruit a couple of heavier guys, for rail meat. I go about 210, and my brother is about 230, and I find we sail better when he is around versus somebody who is 150-170 pounds. I can certainly imagine that if we are noticing some subtle problems pointing with a 4'9" keel, than you are noticing some more serious issues with your configuration. Aside from the length of the keel the two boats are the same weight, similar hulls, sails, etc. I will try to jot down our windward pointing angles next time I am on the boat. We have a windex, so it makes it really easy to figure out.
I do find that our Beneteau 323 does lose way to windward when we are close hauled and heeling heavily. I would have preferred the full draft (I think its 5'11"), but we have only 5 feet of water at low tide at our dock and we went with the standard shoal draft at 4'9". I find that when my dad, brother and law and I are sailing we have an easier time keeping her flat, because we are big guys and have enough weight on the high side. But if its my mom, sister, or I sailing, I find its difficult to manage the heel(and hence we lose pointing distance). So you may just want to recruit a couple of heavier guys, for rail meat. I go about 210, and my brother is about 230, and I find we sail better when he is around versus somebody who is 150-170 pounds. I can certainly imagine that if we are noticing some subtle problems pointing with a 4'9" keel, than you are noticing some more serious issues with your configuration. Aside from the length of the keel the two boats are the same weight, similar hulls, sails, etc. I will try to jot down our windward pointing angles next time I am on the boat. We have a windex, so it makes it really easy to figure out.
Size of Keel
Do you have one of the 2'3" keels with the up and down centreboard, or is it simply a Benny shoal draft keel. The problems you are having seem pretty serious if you have a keel the size of ours. We just bought our boat this past May, and we are not going to start racing it until next year. When we do, I will let you know how we make out upwind. Is it a case of poor pointing and slow, or just poor pointing. Because I certainly notice that we are fairly fast upwind in our Beneteau 323, we are certainly faster than on our old Catalina 30 and C&C 30 MKII. We have come close to hitting our theoretical maximum velocity values upwind that Beneteau has published on their website. When I get a little bit more sailing on our new boat, I should be able to get you so more indepth feedback. Within how many degrees can you tack in now?
Do you have one of the 2'3" keels with the up and down centreboard, or is it simply a Benny shoal draft keel. The problems you are having seem pretty serious if you have a keel the size of ours. We just bought our boat this past May, and we are not going to start racing it until next year. When we do, I will let you know how we make out upwind. Is it a case of poor pointing and slow, or just poor pointing. Because I certainly notice that we are fairly fast upwind in our Beneteau 323, we are certainly faster than on our old Catalina 30 and C&C 30 MKII. We have come close to hitting our theoretical maximum velocity values upwind that Beneteau has published on their website. When I get a little bit more sailing on our new boat, I should be able to get you so more indepth feedback. Within how many degrees can you tack in now?
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