Any tricks or rigging method to keep a plow from false setting or tests to tell if it has? Is it more likely in certain bottom types?
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Why put up with the problems of a plough-type anchor, when newer designs have surpassed them in terms of holding power and setting ability? If you're that nervous about them, get a next generation anchor, like the Rocna, Manson Supreme, Bulwagga, etc. Most of these have proven their ability to reset in the case of shifting currents or winds, and set far more securely and faster than the older designs.
Hal, We have used a CQR for over 17 years and tens of thousands of miles of cruising with great success. Maine Sail has an excellent post on anchoring that will answer your question at
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=597768#post597768
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=597768#post597768
I love my Claw anchor a Bruce knockoff from China. My CQR is in the garage and I will probably never use it again. It was too hard to set and knock on wood the Claw has set everytime the first time. One day near Pensacola I tried three times to set the CQR in higher winds and finally used the Danforth. Now I carry the Claw 33#s and the Danforth.
On a sailboat back down on it with at least 80% reverse engine power. If it drags it was not set and you can re-try. If it continues to drag it is most likely undersized for your vessel or you are in a very soft bottom and it is just plowing the bottom.
CQR types like to settle into the bottom on their own a little before having reverse thrust applied so waiting a half hour or so before you test it with reverse thrust is sometimes necessary with CQR type anchors.
The other option you have is to dive on it.. I used a CQR's for many years but got tired of the multiple attempts and re-sets to get a solid set.
Where do you sail?
What kind of ground will you be anchoring in?
I agree with MaineSail's technique. I would only add that if your cruising ground has tight anchorages, then 5:1 for an all chain rode is equivalent to 7:1 for a chain/nylon rode. In Lake Erie, we are always able to use 7:1.
We do set up a range to allow quick monitoring of our position after anchoring. Looking out off the side of the boat, find two trees (or other vertical, fixed objects) that line up after you have set your anchor. As long as they stay lined up, you are not dragging. A GPS set on high resolution allows a similar excellent check.
After reading the series of actual test of setting, holding, and resetting different anchor designs published by Practical Sailor magazine, I am very sceptical of manufacturers' arguments for one anchor over another, or of the derivatives of those arguments we share on this site. The Danforth and derivatives do quite well in sand or mud in their tests. We use a Bruce in the sand and mud of Lake Erie, and have never pulled the anchor in those bottoms. (We have twice set on rocky bottoms for lunch, and pulled both times.)
What kind of ground will you be anchoring in?
I agree with MaineSail's technique. I would only add that if your cruising ground has tight anchorages, then 5:1 for an all chain rode is equivalent to 7:1 for a chain/nylon rode. In Lake Erie, we are always able to use 7:1.
We do set up a range to allow quick monitoring of our position after anchoring. Looking out off the side of the boat, find two trees (or other vertical, fixed objects) that line up after you have set your anchor. As long as they stay lined up, you are not dragging. A GPS set on high resolution allows a similar excellent check.
After reading the series of actual test of setting, holding, and resetting different anchor designs published by Practical Sailor magazine, I am very sceptical of manufacturers' arguments for one anchor over another, or of the derivatives of those arguments we share on this site. The Danforth and derivatives do quite well in sand or mud in their tests. We use a Bruce in the sand and mud of Lake Erie, and have never pulled the anchor in those bottoms. (We have twice set on rocky bottoms for lunch, and pulled both times.)
That thing you've been tying to the end of your rode might be a skate or flounder
"You throw it in, it swims to the bottom and covers itself with sand. After a half hour you back down to make sure it's good".
I prefer; drop the hook, back down and check it again after everything is stowed.
Me too but CQR's for some reason often do prefer to "skate" along the bottom on their sides if you apply power too quickly. I am NOT the only one to have made this observation and there are many folks who say the same thing about backing down on the CQR just scan this CF, SSCA or any of the other forums and you will see that I am not crazy (well maybe
That thing you've been tying to the end of your rode might be a skate or flounder
"You throw it in, it swims to the bottom and covers itself with sand. After a half hour you back down to make sure it's good".
I prefer; drop the hook, back down and check it again after everything is stowed.
). It's the only anchor I have that requires this type of kid glove treatment.. Fortress, Delta, Bruce, Spade, Super Max, Manson Supreme & Rocna all do just fine backing down immediately the CQR's often do not..
So it's blowing 20 knots in a tight anchorage...exactly what are you doing while waiting for the CQR to settle ????
The bottom is the most important aspect of anchoring. Good heavy mud will hold about any anchor. The Danforth is almost unbeatable for holding in sand or mud it's only fault is that it does not reset very well. Aong the gulf coast it is often blowing hard late afternoon from the southwest and blowing out of the northeast next morning. Then if the tide changes you can have problems. There is often grass on the bottom and my CQR just slides across the grass. The Claw has always worked for me. The Danforth has failed to reset and almost caused me to wash up on the beach one night after a thunderstorm blew through with a 180 degree wind shift. To give the danforth it's due it had speared a large conch. YES I did back down to set the anchors. Yes both the CQR and the Danforth did not reset.
The bottom is the most important aspect of anchoring. Good heavy mud will hold about any anchor. The Danforth is almost unbeatable for holding in sand or mud it's only fault is that it does not reset very well. Aong the gulf coast it is often blowing hard late afternoon from the southwest and blowing out of the northeast next morning. Then if the tide changes you can have problems. There is often grass on the bottom and my CQR just slides across the grass. The Claw has always worked for me. The Danforth has failed to reset and almost caused me to wash up on the beach one night after a thunderstorm blew through with a 180 degree wind shift. To give the danforth it's due it had speared a large conch. YES I did back down to set the anchors. Yes both the CQR and the Danforth did not reset.
Can you have too big of an anchor for a boat?
Also 80% power with a 12 hp is alot different pull than 80% with a 50 hp.
Does the engine have to match the boat has to match the anchor has to match the bottom for the 80% to work?
Also 80% power with a 12 hp is alot different pull than 80% with a 50 hp.
Does the engine have to match the boat has to match the anchor has to match the bottom for the 80% to work?
My thoughts exactly. Several people offering the same anectodal observation do not sway me. Group thought does not have a lock on truth. Could be mass delusion.
I can not speak for others experiences with a CQR but ours have never been as stated. Our boat was a 15 ton traditional ketch loaded for cruising. We have anchored extensively on the east coast of the US from the Chesapeake to the Florida Keys and the Gulf coast from Houston to the Florida Keys. We have anchored all over the Bahamas, T&C, Hispaniola, Cuba and the Central American coast from Mexico to Guatemala, all with our CQR. In every occasion we drop the anchor, drop back on the rode, power in reverse when we reach the scope we desire and set the anchor. It has never, yes never, dragged, it always resets with wind or current changes albeit sometimes does drag a SHORT distance when resetting. It has held the boat in hurricane conditions more than once, since the boat has been through 15 named storms, some in the Chesapeake, several in the Keys and some along the eastern seaboard and a number of times with just under hurricane force and gale force conditions. It has been our primary anchor for 17 years and when we sold that boat a few months ago we were delighted to see a CQR on the bow of our new boat. 9 out of 10 cruising boats we have encountered on our travels use a CQR as their primary and many times also as there secondary. So there must be something worth while to these anchors or else none of us have a clue as to what we are doing. BTW, we have never felt the need to dive to check our anchor.Me too but CQR's for some reason often do prefer to "skate" along the bottom on their sides if you apply power too quickly. I am NOT the only one to have made this observation and there are many folks who say the same thing about backing down on the CQR just scan this CF, SSCA or any of the other forums and you will see that I am not crazy (well maybe
It's the only anchor I have that requires this type of kid glove treatment.. Fortress, Delta, Bruce, Spade, Super Max, Manson Supreme & Rocna all do just fine backing down immediately the CQR's often do not..
Obviously in 20 knots you reset the CQR as many times as it takes and not wait for it to settle but this can often mean three or four tries depending upon the bottom..
Yes the Danforth style, but more specifically the Fortress brand, has very high straight line holding power but they do not re-set on wind or tide shifts very reliably. I use a fortress as my dedicated stern anchor seeing as it will never need to re-set when used this way. For re-set ability alone the Danfrth styel anchors are not very well suited for a primary anchor when wind and tide shifts are expected.
What!! The almighty CQR not set??
Seriously though setting performance is the number one reason why I looked beyind my CQR's..Me too. The Bruce was, before my new generation anchors, the best setting and re-setting anchor I ever owned. My concern though is it's holding ability. Pound for pound they generally have less raw surface area than comparable weight new generation anchors. Almost every test ever done on teh Bruce recommends up sizing. Up sizing is fine if you have a windlass but for the boater who could get away with a 33lb Rocna, 35 Spade or 35 Manson Supreme he'll need a 44 Bruce to match the surface area/holding ability. This can be tough on teh back.. They are a very good anchor but need to be one size larger than recommended to be adequate in a good blow. Of all the older generation anchors the Claw/Bruce, when properly sized, is my personal favorite among them. The genuine Bruce was constructed differnetly and was significantly stronger than the non hardened current crop of knock offs. While very few knock offs have cracked and failed it has happened.
Never a good situation but in defense of the Danforth or CQR any anchor can spear bottom junk and fail to reset..
How Reliable Are The Anchor Sizing Charts?
I did my research, including reading Maine Sails posts about the Ronca and Manson Supreme. I currently have a 22lb Bruce on my 34' Hunter which weighs roughly 12,000 pounds. Add fuel, water, waste, equipment, crew, etc and I'm guessing that number goes up to around 15,000 pounds. When I look at the Bruce sizing chart it suggests their 33lb anchor for a 34' boat. That said, the 22lb Bruce has never failed me in eight seasons including a few times when I was anchored out in winds between 30-40 knots.
When I read the Manson Supreme sizing chart it suggests a 25lb anchor for boats in the 30-35' range and a 35lb anchor for boats in the 35-40' range. But nowhere is consideration given to the weight of the vessel. Should I assume that the sizing chart is using the average weight of a vessel of a particular length? Or maybe they're even using a heavy displacement boat as the guideline.
Being that my boat is 34' and right on the edge of the 25lb anchor I would opt for the larger model except that I don't have a windlass, do most of my sailing alone, and the thought of pulling up a 35lb anchor by hand isn't very appealing.
So, are the sizing charts being overly cautious and would a 25lb Mason Supreme be an "excellent" choice for a Hunter 34 with a moderate displacement?
Thanks for any opinions.
Joe Mullee
I did my research, including reading Maine Sails posts about the Ronca and Manson Supreme. I currently have a 22lb Bruce on my 34' Hunter which weighs roughly 12,000 pounds. Add fuel, water, waste, equipment, crew, etc and I'm guessing that number goes up to around 15,000 pounds. When I look at the Bruce sizing chart it suggests their 33lb anchor for a 34' boat. That said, the 22lb Bruce has never failed me in eight seasons including a few times when I was anchored out in winds between 30-40 knots.
When I read the Manson Supreme sizing chart it suggests a 25lb anchor for boats in the 30-35' range and a 35lb anchor for boats in the 35-40' range. But nowhere is consideration given to the weight of the vessel. Should I assume that the sizing chart is using the average weight of a vessel of a particular length? Or maybe they're even using a heavy displacement boat as the guideline.
Being that my boat is 34' and right on the edge of the 25lb anchor I would opt for the larger model except that I don't have a windlass, do most of my sailing alone, and the thought of pulling up a 35lb anchor by hand isn't very appealing.
So, are the sizing charts being overly cautious and would a 25lb Mason Supreme be an "excellent" choice for a Hunter 34 with a moderate displacement?
Thanks for any opinions.
Joe Mullee
Re: How Reliable Are The Anchor Sizing Charts?
They are very correct . You must read the data as to the conditions. Most manufactures post an average condition. You need to expect the worst and oversize for your boat.
r.w.landau
They are very correct . You must read the data as to the conditions. Most manufactures post an average condition. You need to expect the worst and oversize for your boat.
r.w.landau
Test results
I summarized Practical Sailor's test results of the new roll bar designs versus a new Bruce-style anchor here:
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=598007#post598007
Their results were that the Bruce sets faster, but has slightly less holding power per pound. They rated all three acceptable, and similar in over all performance.
I summarized Practical Sailor's test results of the new roll bar designs versus a new Bruce-style anchor here:
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=598007#post598007
Their results were that the Bruce sets faster, but has slightly less holding power per pound. They rated all three acceptable, and similar in over all performance.
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