Plan for aftmost bulkhead needed

David

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Jun 17, 2004
115
Macgregor 26x Morecambe
As I have mentioned, my boat needs some work. The cockpit and aft bulkhead had rot and were removed by the previous owner. Currently, the boat is in the water with a couple of 2x4's bracing the hull where the bulkhead should go.

I need to replace the bulkhead and am thinking that it would probably be best to do it in the water. I would imagine that the hull has a slightly different shape in the water versus out. Any thoughts on this?

Also, most articles that I have read about replacing a bulkhead say to use the old bulkhead as a pattern. However, I didn't take the old one out and I don't have a pattern. "From a Bare Hull, Ferenc Mate" has a pretty good section on bulkhead replacement (without a pattern). I intend to use that method if I can't locate a pattern or dimensions for the hull in that area.

The other thought is material. I can use marine plywood or a synthetic product like G-10 (see http://www.westsystem.com/ewmag/20/Replacing_bulkheads.html as an example). I don't want to over-engineer this restoration. I want to control the costs but not waste my time doing bad work either. What's the best compromise?

Regards,
David
 
A

Anonymous

Replacing the aft cabin bulkhead.

Hi David, after looking at your photos I took a closer look at my boat. I don't have the plans for this area but this is what I see.

That cabin bulkhead is not full depth. In fact it attaches to the cabin-top-sides and the bridgedeck. It is unsupported below the bridgedeck attachment.

The more structural bulkhead as far as the hull is concerned is aft of the cabin bulkhead(the one you will replace now) and is below deck. It is also cut out mostly for the engine which goes through it. There is not alot of structure in this area but it appears to be ample.

Concerning just the aft cabin bulkhead for now, I would replace with plywood. Orignal is mahogany and a full 5/4 board I believe. Plywood would be easier, less expensive and in some ways better due to its stability. Corners could be milled out of wood similar to the originals for attaching sides. If the cabin ends are too damaged, this piece could be oversized to recieve the shortened cabin sides. Alden or their plans may help for fastening details etc.

If the cabin looks like it has held its shape, I think I would fit a pattern to it of a light plywood, luan maybe, to make a template. Its easy to cut and screw on patches where you come up short, etc. Then use it to trace your lines onto the real plywood. If it has lost some shape, brace it where it needs to get a fair shape.

As you also have a cockpit to put together, leave the bulkhead unglued but screw to sides, top etc. Also leave it long enough on the bottom to recieve the new bridge deck which will likely be two layers, plywood base and wood or plywood surface. This stuff will all tie together in the end, with epoxy, screws etc.

Hope this helps you get started. By the way, that's the toughest part, starting.
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,768
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
A couple more thoughts on the bulkhead

Thinking about this made me realize the lack of support under this aft cabin bulkhead has likely attributed to some settling in this area of my boat. I have had to spline some seperations in the aft cabin bulkhead.

Also, the lower bulkhead does not infact go all the way to the aft edge of the bridgedeck, rather it is about halfway(not on the boat now)

A beam below that aft cabin edge if it could be engineered without too much depth(that would lower the edge into the galley area) would be an improvement. I may look into that for my boat. Still, this area is ample as built and should be copied closely.
 
Jun 28, 2004
50
David,

I would be happy to describe the layout of Whisper's (949-LL) aft bulkhead and cockpit if you like, but it will take a little poking around. Have you contacted Alden for plans? I have gotten some plans from them in the past (I think it was $50 for three sheets), but they were large scale and didn't have the detail you are looking for. But while I was poking around in their office files I saw a lot of drawings of all sorts of details. Don Perrot was very helpful.

Good luck,

Rick O'Connell
 

David

.
Jun 17, 2004
115
Macgregor 26x Morecambe
Alden Plans

Thanks for the reply Rick. I may take you up on your offer when I get to this repair job.

I did contact Niels Helleberg of Alden regarding the plans. At first, his replies seemed to suggest that plans would be helpful. But then after stating which plans I should get he said: "You will have to make templates of the bulkheads that needs to be replaced". I think that I had already said that the bulkhead didn't exist anymore, but maybe I didn't. So I have given up on the plans for now.
 
Sep 9, 2004
39
Cockpit and bulkhead

I just re-read member’s comments on cockpit repair. I’ve know this was an area of major need on Essay, but I had no idea how involved it would be. I’d beefed up the cockpit floor temporarily last summer in Texas, mostly so I could use the transmission shift lever in the cockpit and not the tire iron stuck into the transmission coupling. Now, after several days of tearing out the bulkhead aft the galley, then poking screwdrivers into rotted wood, I ordered “plans” from Alden, that I hope will shed some light.
I have several photos, but I’m not sure they would help any one else; the cockpit and bulkhead are really a mess. Still, anyone is welcome to take a look.
What has intrigued me is a lock plate I found buried under the cockpit floor. Brass, about two inches long by half inch square. Recessed into the cockpit, below what is now a frame that holds the hatch-access to the area above the transmission. To make it more interesting, just forward of the pedestal there is a slight cut-out, just the edge of a circle I estimate to have a radius of as much as 14 inches. Of course, I suspect an original opening and cover. Any thoughts?
I was also wondering, David, how your bulkhead-cockpit project was progressing.
 

Whit

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Sep 13, 2004
93
Hunter 30_88-94 New Orleans LA
I believe that you have unearthed the original access hatch. These man-hole covers are known for reaching foot blistering temperatures of a griddle. With out this arrangement, your boat must be floating several inches higher, probably helps with her righting capabilities.
 
Jun 22, 2004
47
Hunter 35 St Augustine
Bulkhead

David
I am sure that Alden has the original plans available. I have purchased some of them but am not sure I have this area. You can call them and they will send them out for aa small fee. I will look aat mine and see what I have.
I think that you should make your own template because each boat could be a little different.

Bill
 

Whit

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Sep 13, 2004
93
Hunter 30_88-94 New Orleans LA
Find the location where you want the bulkhead & make a template from cardboard. As Tom suggested, the bridge deck will need to be supported as well as the aft end of the cabin.
 
A

Anonymous

David, there have been several articles in WoodenBoat about how to do this. Basically, ensure the boat is the shape you want her; as open and unbraced as Alarm was when I saw her, you can bend her alot in width and twist, less so vertically. Your Alden plans will give you deck widths at the designed stations, but the hard part for me would be in laying out where those stations are supposed to be and measuring square across the hull. Pull or push her sheer to where it needs to be, check that she's not twisted, and (probably) just think a bit about vertically. (I've bent a Flying Dutchman about 3/4" vertically before I reglued the keelson - a much smaller project!).

From on of WB's methods for making a bulkhead: Whack out a piece of plywood for a pattern, might have to be done in pieces so you can get it in and out, and also so that you can walk through it. Make it, say, 2" clear of the hull and deck all around. Affix it in place. Trace the edge of a marked pointer stick laid on the plywood and touching the hull at a point and mark the marked spot onto the plywood. Then rotate the stick substantially while keeping the pointer end at the point on the hull; trace the edge and mark the marked spot. What you have recorded is a way to place the marked stick on the pattern in the same position that it had in the hull when you have the pattern laid out on top of your new bulkhead stock. Doing this over and over again before you remove your pattern will give you a series of points to lay out on your new bulkhead. You'll have to adjust the marks to account for the fore-and-aft taper of the hull and the thicknesses of pattern and new bulkhead. Alarm is certainly wider and taller than a sheet of plywood at this bulkhead, so that you'll have to decide where and how to hide the splices. Additionally, there will be all the access doors for engine and galley to arrange for. On Quetzal, this bulkhead is in two halves and has a separate bit over over the engine, and the top is against the bridge deck; on the Challengers, the bulkhead runs up to the cabintop and across the engine, carries the side decks, cockpit floor.
 
Sep 9, 2004
39
Thoughts on cockpit rebuilding.
Essay’s cockpit had a rotted ‘floor;’ the sides (under the seats) were rotted at all four corners and had been patched in several places. The supports below the floor were bad in some areas, missing in others. The bulkhead on the port side was so bad I pushed a finger through it. The starboard upper supports, which the shift bar tied into, was virtually gone and had been patched with steel plates and angle. Before bringing the boat back from Texas, I bolted and screwed enough lumber into place to support both ends of the shift bar, and to support the cockpit. During the trip back, I also cut a square out of the floor to get to the rudder shaft. When the bilge pump starts coming on every 15 seconds, something has to get fixed. And on Essay, that means moving the quadrant, which sets tight on top of the packing nuts.
The cockpit seats and backs are in great shape. No work needed other than refinishing.

1. My goal was to rebuild the cockpit, but opening that area also made it easy to do other jobs: repacking the rudder shaft; repairing and painting slats and hull; cleaning and painting the engine; checking and repairing wiring; checking steering and resetting the quadrant-rudder-wheel so they are straight and the Turk’s head’s at the top; repairing the copper drains from the seat gutters . . . . You get the idea: Plan to spend more time down there. There will be plenty to do and it is much easier with the cockpit open.

A major caveat: Other than the patchwork in Texas, this is the first time I’ve ever dug into a boat, so my methods, decisions, and materials may be suspect. So, some observations:

1. Reference points are crucial. I was working between good seats and hull. Measurements need to come from as many points as you can establish. Essay is in the water, so level was a bit subjective.
2. Don’t count on much of anything being square. Everything is comparative
3. The $50 worth of plans from Alden have no details that resembled my cockpit. But the plans mention construction drawings. That’s what we all need.
4. I used the method already described to fit a new bulkhead. Marine ply. Mine fit into the fiberglass groove that the old one came out of. At the same time, replace the wooden “rib” that supports the forward end of the hull slats. If the bulkhead is bad, that support will be too. Both mine were gone, although I only had to replace the port bulkhead. And you can use your new bulkhead pattern to cut a new rib.
5. I suspect that at one time there were blocks under the floor, supporting the corner drains. I’ll put blocks in. The tubing is long enough to support a one-inch block.
6. Some of my hull-protecting slats were damaged. I replaced them all, ripping Thompsonized decking. Much stronger now. It will take more than 200 screws. I hope to clean and use the mahogany slats in a herringbone pattern as the finished floor. The starboard slats were longer than the port slats. I also learned that the hull ribs are hollow, or, as West System says, “inactive floors.” So be gentle with the screw gun, or reinforce them with glass. I pained the hull with Kilz paint, supposed to be anti-mildew, but I don’t like it. It peals too easily.
7. The long supports on each side, which provide a base for the floor, are two pieces, one on top of the other, that run the length of the cockpit, each about 1” x 2”. I couldn’t find SS bolts long enough to span the 4.5 inches but threaded rod works. A plywood base is sandwiched between them, through-bolted along with the sides.
8. For some reason, the sides and their coved bases set on another board hung from the frame. You might want to re-engineer yours.
I’m using poplar as the sides, biscuit joined, and then painted. The vertical corners of the cockpit sides are rounded, as is the base molding that contains the actual floor. Both will require a 1/2” router bit or a cove cut on the table saw. They may have been tenoned at one time but mine were too far gone to tell. Some of the cross braces under the cockpit are also tenoned.
9. I, too, was concerned about what strength the bulkhead provided, then remembered that the boat was hauled in Texas and even with the powdery bulkhead there has been no evidence of damaged. Still, I added a brace that crosses the hull, connecting both bulkhead to the structure in the center.
I’ll try to answer any questions. I also have photos, but the world’s slowest internet connection.
 
A

Anonymous

Dave,

I'd like to recommend that you not use poplar for anything exposed to weather. While cheap and easy to mill, it's about the least rot-resistant wood you can buy, it's dimensionally unstable and brittle. Poplar is OK outside for barn boarding when vertical, and for interior painted trim. If you do use it, be absolutely religious about encapsulating it in epoxy, maybe even with glass reinforcing to make the epoxy more resistant to damage.

Too much trouble to do twice!

When I was thinking about restoring Alarm or Essay, I had imagined, sacriligiously, that I'd build a glassed cockpit. When I replaced the engine bedlogs and the fuel tank supports in our Morgan 27, I used pressure treated lumber, a trick I learned from the watermen around Rock Hall, MD. I covered the bedlogs in epoxy and glass and tabbed 'em into place. You might be able to see a bit of 'em here: http://www.my-yachtbroker.com/Boat%20de ... ilBoat.htm Also, check out the encapsulated teak sole.

D