Kingman marine back in 2004 charged $1650 per mooring, now with the consumer price index going up around 3% or less per year, I'd expect a moderate increase, I'm stretched far on a fixed income, but this year they've gone up to $2300! No explanation, just up 40% ! I'm stuck now looking for a new home for my boat. I don't want to stay at someplace that goes up randomly each year, I've spoken to the owner who says only, "we bought new safer mooring lines" I've offered to use my own, but he says that's the price anyhow.
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Pirates
Sounds like the marina has joined forces with the oil companies. Time to find another place to do business with. Good luck.
Sounds like the marina has joined forces with the oil companies. Time to find another place to do business with. Good luck.
Vote with your feet, William
it's the American way. Maybe the owner will get the message if enough of your fellow sailors feet are voting as well. There are other things to consider, however. If he is a new owner, perhaps the old owner is no longer around because he didn't know how to price his product. Is the new price in line with the market in your area ? Good luck.....Jeff
it's the American way. Maybe the owner will get the message if enough of your fellow sailors feet are voting as well. There are other things to consider, however. If he is a new owner, perhaps the old owner is no longer around because he didn't know how to price his product. Is the new price in line with the market in your area ? Good luck.....Jeff
Wake up America
When are we going to wake up and stop letting people Lie and steal right in front of our eyes? And we just tuck our tails and run away. What a bunch of pussys. I was in Vietnam and let me tell you that was America at its best . We got arrested and fought for what we believed was right. And we got it!Now criminals go free (OJ),presidents lie to our faces and drugs and gangs are rampant.Instead of taking care of people at home we are sending our money to Ethopia?? Just boycot the marina and post signs and let your voice be heard about their unfair treatment. Call the BBB and all the inspectors you can think of. Yell, scream . "The squeaky wheel gets the oil".Take an ad out, get an attorney. How angry does it make you? Not very, cause I would of mentioned the facilities name and address at the very least So, If you're not willing to do what it takes to help yourself .Why should we do it for you? Or are you from the X generation?
When are we going to wake up and stop letting people Lie and steal right in front of our eyes? And we just tuck our tails and run away. What a bunch of pussys. I was in Vietnam and let me tell you that was America at its best . We got arrested and fought for what we believed was right. And we got it!Now criminals go free (OJ),presidents lie to our faces and drugs and gangs are rampant.Instead of taking care of people at home we are sending our money to Ethopia?? Just boycot the marina and post signs and let your voice be heard about their unfair treatment. Call the BBB and all the inspectors you can think of. Yell, scream . "The squeaky wheel gets the oil".Take an ad out, get an attorney. How angry does it make you? Not very, cause I would of mentioned the facilities name and address at the very least So, If you're not willing to do what it takes to help yourself .Why should we do it for you? Or are you from the X generation?
Mooring
2 years ago I had the same shock as you when I moved my boat from Rhode Island. I found a private mooring in New Bedford for 900.00 for the season. The next year I purchased the mooring from the owner and transferred the mooring permit to me. New Bedford doesn't have a problem with non resident mooring permits. If New Bedford isn't too far from you, you might want to check it out.
2 years ago I had the same shock as you when I moved my boat from Rhode Island. I found a private mooring in New Bedford for 900.00 for the season. The next year I purchased the mooring from the owner and transferred the mooring permit to me. New Bedford doesn't have a problem with non resident mooring permits. If New Bedford isn't too far from you, you might want to check it out.
ctskip, its called free enterprise
Thats what capitalism is and its suited the western world fairly well. Unless this is a public or state owned marina then I would argue with the town board or state legislation and vote the bums out, but if this is private marina its different. No one is forcing you to buy. This isn't medical care which has gone up even more over the years and a necessity in life. Who's boycotting the Gas stations? Who's boycotting the Ski resorts (seen their prices lately !) Who's boycotting the drug companies making money on peoples sickness? This marina owner is probably just a small business owner trying to keep his head above water. This is not Vietnam. No one is sending you to potentially lose your life. I hate rising boating/marina costs as much as anyone, but you all forget this is a "leisure" activity. You don't need to go boating. I agree with the previous message. Send a message with your feet and move to the competition. Make sure when you leave the reason is the outrageous costs
Thats what capitalism is and its suited the western world fairly well. Unless this is a public or state owned marina then I would argue with the town board or state legislation and vote the bums out, but if this is private marina its different. No one is forcing you to buy. This isn't medical care which has gone up even more over the years and a necessity in life. Who's boycotting the Gas stations? Who's boycotting the Ski resorts (seen their prices lately !) Who's boycotting the drug companies making money on peoples sickness? This marina owner is probably just a small business owner trying to keep his head above water. This is not Vietnam. No one is sending you to potentially lose your life. I hate rising boating/marina costs as much as anyone, but you all forget this is a "leisure" activity. You don't need to go boating. I agree with the previous message. Send a message with your feet and move to the competition. Make sure when you leave the reason is the outrageous costs
hey ctskip, slow down, go sailing....
...the marina owner didn't lie, he didn't steal. he just raised his prices. William now has a choice. I can just see him getting an attorney and going to court. " But Judge, the owner raised his prices and I didn't want him to do that. Can we make him put the prices back down so that he cannot make a profit and continue in business, and then there are no moorings available. Then the owner will be on public assistence and we will all be helping to support him" Next time the company you work for raises their prices, can I ask them to cut your income so the prices can come back down ? Or, if you run your own business, the next time someone comes to you for a raise, make sure it's a big one, and grant it automatically. And, he did name the facilities.... Kingman marine in Cape Cod area. Here's what will happen to Kingman Marine. Assuming his prices are outrageous, people will start to leave, then he will have empty moorings. The more empty moorings he has, the less revenue he will generate. Then it's decision time. Should he raise his rates even furthur to compensate for the lost revenue which will drive even more people away, or will he reduce rates to draw people back and generate revenue from volume. The market works. Yes, some of us get squeezed from time to time in the process, but it works. Getting an attorney to tell a guy how to set his rates just raises prices even furthur. William, best of luck, hopefully you will get some constructive suggestions such as the one from Scott.......Jeff
...the marina owner didn't lie, he didn't steal. he just raised his prices. William now has a choice. I can just see him getting an attorney and going to court. " But Judge, the owner raised his prices and I didn't want him to do that. Can we make him put the prices back down so that he cannot make a profit and continue in business, and then there are no moorings available. Then the owner will be on public assistence and we will all be helping to support him" Next time the company you work for raises their prices, can I ask them to cut your income so the prices can come back down ? Or, if you run your own business, the next time someone comes to you for a raise, make sure it's a big one, and grant it automatically. And, he did name the facilities.... Kingman marine in Cape Cod area. Here's what will happen to Kingman Marine. Assuming his prices are outrageous, people will start to leave, then he will have empty moorings. The more empty moorings he has, the less revenue he will generate. Then it's decision time. Should he raise his rates even furthur to compensate for the lost revenue which will drive even more people away, or will he reduce rates to draw people back and generate revenue from volume. The market works. Yes, some of us get squeezed from time to time in the process, but it works. Getting an attorney to tell a guy how to set his rates just raises prices even furthur. William, best of luck, hopefully you will get some constructive suggestions such as the one from Scott.......Jeff
Different but the same
This week I ran across a bug in a vendor's software. I asked for a workaround. They said I had to buy the source code. That pissed me off so I sent an email back with a few nasty words but clearly stating my frustration with them. The CTO wrote back saying he was cutting my support. I wrote back saying fine...I can always change my email address and get support that way, but while doing that, I will also be slamming your company on the web in news boards that us software developers use. I went and posted one message on a board that I commonly use with about 2,000 other developers saying to stay away from such and such company because their support is .... Within a couple of hours of that, I got an email from the President of the company saying he was sorry and will get a fix for me quickly. The difference here is that I had already purchased the product. The same part is that I was very disappointed in the company and in this econmy, if your unhappy, you can slam a company's rep pretty good on the net and the company will suffer because of it. I have since gone back and re-tracted my statement on the board but I'm sure the next guy searching the archives for "The best grid" will run across my post and go with another company. As ctskip said, the squeaky wheel gets oiled. Personally I say this price is screwed up. All a mooring is is just a big hunk of weight to tie your boat to. All his expenses are is permits (which is another BS), an occasional inspection, and an occasional equipment replacement. Nothing here cost much and it doesn't take up much of his time. It's not like it's a real fulltime job running this "Company". It's more like supplimental income type of business. Know what I say...screw all that, just go anchor your boat out there and don't pay anybody anything. It's not like a slip where you get services like electric, water, walk to the boat, restrooms, pool, hot tub, parties all for the same price down here. I bet after people start to realize that, and he has no customers, he will realize the real value isn't that high for a mooring.
This week I ran across a bug in a vendor's software. I asked for a workaround. They said I had to buy the source code. That pissed me off so I sent an email back with a few nasty words but clearly stating my frustration with them. The CTO wrote back saying he was cutting my support. I wrote back saying fine...I can always change my email address and get support that way, but while doing that, I will also be slamming your company on the web in news boards that us software developers use. I went and posted one message on a board that I commonly use with about 2,000 other developers saying to stay away from such and such company because their support is .... Within a couple of hours of that, I got an email from the President of the company saying he was sorry and will get a fix for me quickly. The difference here is that I had already purchased the product. The same part is that I was very disappointed in the company and in this econmy, if your unhappy, you can slam a company's rep pretty good on the net and the company will suffer because of it. I have since gone back and re-tracted my statement on the board but I'm sure the next guy searching the archives for "The best grid" will run across my post and go with another company. As ctskip said, the squeaky wheel gets oiled. Personally I say this price is screwed up. All a mooring is is just a big hunk of weight to tie your boat to. All his expenses are is permits (which is another BS), an occasional inspection, and an occasional equipment replacement. Nothing here cost much and it doesn't take up much of his time. It's not like it's a real fulltime job running this "Company". It's more like supplimental income type of business. Know what I say...screw all that, just go anchor your boat out there and don't pay anybody anything. It's not like a slip where you get services like electric, water, walk to the boat, restrooms, pool, hot tub, parties all for the same price down here. I bet after people start to realize that, and he has no customers, he will realize the real value isn't that high for a mooring.
and...
he will realize the real value isn't that high for a mooring....if he wants to make it a REAL business, he needs to offer services that people can't get for free, like a slip with electricity and water and the ability to walk to the boat and a pool and hot tub and ...
he will realize the real value isn't that high for a mooring....if he wants to make it a REAL business, he needs to offer services that people can't get for free, like a slip with electricity and water and the ability to walk to the boat and a pool and hot tub and ...
Try next door
Because of the scarce amount of public access to the water, it would be fair to inform you of the cost at least a year in advance: but There is no law protecting consumers with this type of situation that I know of, however, I would move next door to Parkers marine last year their mooring prices were a modest $1750. I am a generation X Ctskp served 1991 Gulf, and am lazier than you can possibly imagine.
Because of the scarce amount of public access to the water, it would be fair to inform you of the cost at least a year in advance: but There is no law protecting consumers with this type of situation that I know of, however, I would move next door to Parkers marine last year their mooring prices were a modest $1750. I am a generation X Ctskp served 1991 Gulf, and am lazier than you can possibly imagine.
thank you
Thank you all for the advice, sean I'm on the waiting list for Parkers they will inform me by January 7th, if they have a spot for me. I am gen X too but radical enough to protest and I will throw a rotten fish in the owners new yacht. (after I have a new place to go)
Thank you all for the advice, sean I'm on the waiting list for Parkers they will inform me by January 7th, if they have a spot for me. I am gen X too but radical enough to protest and I will throw a rotten fish in the owners new yacht. (after I have a new place to go)
William, similar thing happened to us...
We purchased and kept our boat moored at Semiahmoo Marina for three years, a private facility on the Canadian border. The new president of the association decided to raise moorage fees to be competitive with other marinas. He would not say with which marinas, but Blaine Marina across the channel was not one of them. In our case the monthly fee went up 60%. So, I voiced my concern to management and then promptly moved our boat to another marina, which worked out better for us all the way around. Also, every boat owner I talk to knows our story. Terry P.S. Nice looking tall boat, how does she handle?
We purchased and kept our boat moored at Semiahmoo Marina for three years, a private facility on the Canadian border. The new president of the association decided to raise moorage fees to be competitive with other marinas. He would not say with which marinas, but Blaine Marina across the channel was not one of them. In our case the monthly fee went up 60%. So, I voiced my concern to management and then promptly moved our boat to another marina, which worked out better for us all the way around. Also, every boat owner I talk to knows our story. Terry P.S. Nice looking tall boat, how does she handle?
Private Pirates
William, It sounds like a private marina, if so then unless you can get a gaggle of folks to follow you out, then give unto Caesar... I have seen the surreptitious surrender of independance of any kind in this country, but like Tom said, it is capitalisim. It may not be at its best, but it's commerce, and water finds its own level, if demand is great enough, people will charge whatever the market will bear, unless it is a public marina with caps. I have seen the cost of a mooring rise up to 300K in Newport Beach Ca, and even higher in Avalon, and what are you buying? Marinas EXPECTED a percentage of livaboards in the past, and it meant the docks would be clean and secure, folks appear to believe the opposite now. Whoa down thar skip, we aint fightin' a war here either.
William, It sounds like a private marina, if so then unless you can get a gaggle of folks to follow you out, then give unto Caesar... I have seen the surreptitious surrender of independance of any kind in this country, but like Tom said, it is capitalisim. It may not be at its best, but it's commerce, and water finds its own level, if demand is great enough, people will charge whatever the market will bear, unless it is a public marina with caps. I have seen the cost of a mooring rise up to 300K in Newport Beach Ca, and even higher in Avalon, and what are you buying? Marinas EXPECTED a percentage of livaboards in the past, and it meant the docks would be clean and secure, folks appear to believe the opposite now. Whoa down thar skip, we aint fightin' a war here either.
better than the harbor nazis
the harbors here are run by the local government!!! they outsource the management to westrec. they recently rebid it but wouldnt help anyone new with the figures to place a bid. so five more years of being treated like the enemy at over $3000 per season (may through oct) not saying
the harbors here are run by the local government!!! they outsource the management to westrec. they recently rebid it but wouldnt help anyone new with the figures to place a bid. so five more years of being treated like the enemy at over $3000 per season (may through oct) not saying
Other reasons
Besides the new mooring lines, it's very likely Kingman's insurance has gone up exponentially. Not just for liability (like when an employee leaves a poppit too loose and a hauled boat tips into two or five of its neighbors), but for EPA-related stuff. If antifouling scrapings end up in the marsh next door, they can get fined millions, and the insurance companies are funny about things like that. At our club, (definitely NOT a for-profit venture) insurance costs have risen about 50 per cent in the last four years. It all adds up. Move your business if you can, or pay the price.
Besides the new mooring lines, it's very likely Kingman's insurance has gone up exponentially. Not just for liability (like when an employee leaves a poppit too loose and a hauled boat tips into two or five of its neighbors), but for EPA-related stuff. If antifouling scrapings end up in the marsh next door, they can get fined millions, and the insurance companies are funny about things like that. At our club, (definitely NOT a for-profit venture) insurance costs have risen about 50 per cent in the last four years. It all adds up. Move your business if you can, or pay the price.
S.F. Marina the Nazi "harboemaster"
Not saying, I can relate to that, and the identity thing. The city and county of S.F. runs the S.F. Marina that includes 'Gas House Cove' and when Gary was 'harbormaster' everone got along fine. A 'connected' guy with little boating experience was given the job as "harbormaster" a real "nice" one. Everyone, even the best employees (that actually got lots accomplished) hate the guy, and for good reason, I rented a slip there once and met him. Strangely, most of these "masters" I know have actually done little or nil boating, and have the overconfident air that they are 'somebody'. There was a nice Brittish girl who ran Pier 39, actually had manners, and that's rare for a "harbormaster".
Not saying, I can relate to that, and the identity thing. The city and county of S.F. runs the S.F. Marina that includes 'Gas House Cove' and when Gary was 'harbormaster' everone got along fine. A 'connected' guy with little boating experience was given the job as "harbormaster" a real "nice" one. Everyone, even the best employees (that actually got lots accomplished) hate the guy, and for good reason, I rented a slip there once and met him. Strangely, most of these "masters" I know have actually done little or nil boating, and have the overconfident air that they are 'somebody'. There was a nice Brittish girl who ran Pier 39, actually had manners, and that's rare for a "harbormaster".
No Bargain!
Kingman is very pricey because of their location. Although, they are good and the place is nice. Across Buzzard's Bay is a lot cheaper. I was at Kingman once and my alternator let go. I spoke to the owner directly and he indicated that they couldn't fix it for two weeks. Plus the work slips were full and I'd have to leave it out on the docks. At the time it was $100/day for my h37. So, I called TowBoat U.S. and had the boat towed to Fairhaven across the bay. I had tow insurance with them. The shipyard there had it rebuilt for $90. It would have been $150 for it new. So I ordered a new one for a back-up. Skip Kingman and look for something on the other side.
Kingman is very pricey because of their location. Although, they are good and the place is nice. Across Buzzard's Bay is a lot cheaper. I was at Kingman once and my alternator let go. I spoke to the owner directly and he indicated that they couldn't fix it for two weeks. Plus the work slips were full and I'd have to leave it out on the docks. At the time it was $100/day for my h37. So, I called TowBoat U.S. and had the boat towed to Fairhaven across the bay. I had tow insurance with them. The shipyard there had it rebuilt for $90. It would have been $150 for it new. So I ordered a new one for a back-up. Skip Kingman and look for something on the other side.
just to give you something to gauge it by...
My private marina's fees here on Long Island Sound have been going up every year by more than the rate of inflation. Maybe we'll go through one of those cycles where "boating" becomes "yachting" again as only those with bucks can do it. Or maybe global warming will swamp the old places and make marinas out of the next street over...
My private marina's fees here on Long Island Sound have been going up every year by more than the rate of inflation. Maybe we'll go through one of those cycles where "boating" becomes "yachting" again as only those with bucks can do it. Or maybe global warming will swamp the old places and make marinas out of the next street over...
50% last year
I went from 1500 to 2250 this year but all i have there is a parking spot and a chain in the lake with my mushrooms 2 [300lb] in 7' of water with 3/4 " chain {11']two 3/4" nylon rops[11'}I can step off the back of my boat on the frount ofthe one behind me .This is very close and with no wind the boat bang together.C301988 There is just no place to go. John
I went from 1500 to 2250 this year but all i have there is a parking spot and a chain in the lake with my mushrooms 2 [300lb] in 7' of water with 3/4 " chain {11']two 3/4" nylon rops[11'}I can step off the back of my boat on the frount ofthe one behind me .This is very close and with no wind the boat bang together.C301988 There is just no place to go. John
Location location location
Milwaukee has two mooring fields.The northern one has a thirty waiting list.The one on the south side of the city has immediate openings.You own the mooring outright for 40 dollars.It cost me 700 to have an 800 pound anchor ,mooring ball and two inch and a half lines put in.I paid 120 bucks to have it moved twenty feet or so when I got a bigger boat.This included pulling the ball and installing the winter stick.Boy I'm sure glad I don't live out East.
Milwaukee has two mooring fields.The northern one has a thirty waiting list.The one on the south side of the city has immediate openings.You own the mooring outright for 40 dollars.It cost me 700 to have an 800 pound anchor ,mooring ball and two inch and a half lines put in.I paid 120 bucks to have it moved twenty feet or so when I got a bigger boat.This included pulling the ball and installing the winter stick.Boy I'm sure glad I don't live out East.
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