I got my PHRF rating for my Hunter Legend 37.5. The rating is 105 base and 126 for non-spinnaker. (108 with spinnaker, but I don't race spinnaker class.) I race against a Hunter Legend 40.5. They race non-spinnaker and their PHRF is 133. What is wrong with this picture?? Is the Hunter 40.5 a slow boat? I don't think so. I have to give 7 seconds per mile to a bigger, faster boat. They can beat me on uncorrected time, so why should I have to give them 7 seconds per mile? I logged onto the Lake Michigan PHRF website. They don't have any Hunter 40.5's, but they rate the 37.5 at 111. I'm glad I don't race my boat on Lake Michigan. I would be a candidate for the last place "trophy" every time. Do any of you Hunter racers have any PHRF ratings for the 37.5 and the 40.5 that are a little more realistic than what the Galveston Bay PHRF Committee has come up with?
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Mark - UK Sailmakers
PHRF ratings
Don, with a little digging, it seems you may have a valid point. According to the '99 USSA handicaps, the national avg. rating for the 40.5 is 115 (6 areas) The national avg. for the 37.5 is 118.6 (12 areas). Chesapeke Bay rates the 37.5 at 120 and the 40.5 at111, while SE Fla. rates the 37.5 at 120 and the 40.5 at 99. It's odd that Lake Huron rates the 37.5 at 114 and the 40.5 at 120 (these are all base boat spinnaker ratings). The 37/37.5 has been around quite a while and I think their ratings are fair (I used to own one here in east. CT at 117), and with a folding prop. (A MUST), good sails and bottom, the 37.5 will go well. We did rather well with it. The 40.5 ratings seem be be a gift in places. Feel free to contact me for any more info. Regards, Mark Dixon, Chief Handicapper, Eastern CT Sailing Assn. ukessex@uksailmakers.com
Don, with a little digging, it seems you may have a valid point. According to the '99 USSA handicaps, the national avg. rating for the 40.5 is 115 (6 areas) The national avg. for the 37.5 is 118.6 (12 areas). Chesapeke Bay rates the 37.5 at 120 and the 40.5 at111, while SE Fla. rates the 37.5 at 120 and the 40.5 at 99. It's odd that Lake Huron rates the 37.5 at 114 and the 40.5 at 120 (these are all base boat spinnaker ratings). The 37/37.5 has been around quite a while and I think their ratings are fair (I used to own one here in east. CT at 117), and with a folding prop. (A MUST), good sails and bottom, the 37.5 will go well. We did rather well with it. The 40.5 ratings seem be be a gift in places. Feel free to contact me for any more info. Regards, Mark Dixon, Chief Handicapper, Eastern CT Sailing Assn. ukessex@uksailmakers.com
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PJ
You have to compare apples to apples.
You cannot compare 6 areas to 12 other areas for 2 different boats and go with an average. Some areas may be lite winds vs med or heavy winds. One area that does not have a 37 may rate the 40.5 faster or slower than your area but may rate all vessels faster or slower. And don't forget there are not a lot of H37s or 40.5s. You need to compare your area lite or med or heavy winds to other similar areas and then take a group of standard mass produced boats as the benchmark. Such as t-10s, S-2s 7.9, J-30s, Erickson 32-3s, C&C29s, J-29s. You want to establish what the difference between your two ratings are. Compare the difference in seconds for your boat to these standard boats, and then compare the difference of the competetors boat to the standard boats. Then note the difference in secs. for your boat vs the benchmarks, & the competitors boat vs the benchmarks. A group of H34 owners went through this last year in Chicago. Although a 'club' may give a rating break for wed nite races, a PHRF committee won't consider a change unless you do spinnaker races with a competent crew, captain, and updated keel, sails etc. BOL PJ
You cannot compare 6 areas to 12 other areas for 2 different boats and go with an average. Some areas may be lite winds vs med or heavy winds. One area that does not have a 37 may rate the 40.5 faster or slower than your area but may rate all vessels faster or slower. And don't forget there are not a lot of H37s or 40.5s. You need to compare your area lite or med or heavy winds to other similar areas and then take a group of standard mass produced boats as the benchmark. Such as t-10s, S-2s 7.9, J-30s, Erickson 32-3s, C&C29s, J-29s. You want to establish what the difference between your two ratings are. Compare the difference in seconds for your boat to these standard boats, and then compare the difference of the competetors boat to the standard boats. Then note the difference in secs. for your boat vs the benchmarks, & the competitors boat vs the benchmarks. A group of H34 owners went through this last year in Chicago. Although a 'club' may give a rating break for wed nite races, a PHRF committee won't consider a change unless you do spinnaker races with a competent crew, captain, and updated keel, sails etc. BOL PJ
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Thorp
PHRF what a joke...
That's exactly why I don't race anymore. We would complete the race head back to the docks, tie up and be on our second drink before the last boats would cross the line. Then they would post the lists and our name is consistently on the bottom of the list. Where is the farness in this. It would just gall me when Joe Blow from that Catalina 34 with "Blew By You" on it (287 PHRF) would stroll over and comment on how well his boat preformed and how much he loves the trill of victory. Until another 37.5 pull up along side and say "wanta race" my racing days are over... Who needs this. As far as I'm concern PHRF is just a gimmick thought up by people who have inferior designed boats to feel better about their slow tubs.
That's exactly why I don't race anymore. We would complete the race head back to the docks, tie up and be on our second drink before the last boats would cross the line. Then they would post the lists and our name is consistently on the bottom of the list. Where is the farness in this. It would just gall me when Joe Blow from that Catalina 34 with "Blew By You" on it (287 PHRF) would stroll over and comment on how well his boat preformed and how much he loves the trill of victory. Until another 37.5 pull up along side and say "wanta race" my racing days are over... Who needs this. As far as I'm concern PHRF is just a gimmick thought up by people who have inferior designed boats to feel better about their slow tubs.
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terry dornan
10 bucks
Performance Handicaps r Rarely Fair, that's why my idea of a great yacht race is - "Hey 10 bucks Says My Boat can beat Your Boat and looser Buys First Beer " Terry Ps- I don't golf either!
Performance Handicaps r Rarely Fair, that's why my idea of a great yacht race is - "Hey 10 bucks Says My Boat can beat Your Boat and looser Buys First Beer " Terry Ps- I don't golf either!
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Don Wilbert
Detroit is nuts!!!!!!
I was rated a 114 last year, won a couple of flags in JAM class out on Anchor Bay. Guess what? Suprise, DRYA steps in I now have have a 108, I appeal pay $35.00 , lose , and can't even get an explanation why. In the mean time I give a Catalina 38 -12 seconds a mile and she smokes me..
I was rated a 114 last year, won a couple of flags in JAM class out on Anchor Bay. Guess what? Suprise, DRYA steps in I now have have a 108, I appeal pay $35.00 , lose , and can't even get an explanation why. In the mean time I give a Catalina 38 -12 seconds a mile and she smokes me..
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Don H.
D. Wilbert-Buy Catalina to win.
Don Wilbert, If you want to win on PHRF corrected time, buy a slow Catalina 380. If you want to win boat for boat, keep your Hunter Legend 37.5. They are fast. Don Hallden S/V SEAFARI
Don Wilbert, If you want to win on PHRF corrected time, buy a slow Catalina 380. If you want to win boat for boat, keep your Hunter Legend 37.5. They are fast. Don Hallden S/V SEAFARI
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Bill Dugan
Mid Atlantic PHRF Rating
I just received my 200 rating under PHRF for my 1995 Hunter 37.5 of 129 from the Middle Atlantic. It is based on a base of 117 with the following adjustments: 135% jib +3, Prop solid two blade +3, Roller furler with sum +6.
I just received my 200 rating under PHRF for my 1995 Hunter 37.5 of 129 from the Middle Atlantic. It is based on a base of 117 with the following adjustments: 135% jib +3, Prop solid two blade +3, Roller furler with sum +6.
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Don H.
PHRF 126 is a good rating for a 37.5
My Legend 37.5 has done very well in the last four races with a PHRF of 126. The Hunter Legend 40.5 with a PHRF of 133 was not in those races, but I will go head to head with him on June 17. It gives me cause for concern. I don't think my boat is faster than a 40.5. My guess is that the 40.5 should be rated about 122 or 124.
My Legend 37.5 has done very well in the last four races with a PHRF of 126. The Hunter Legend 40.5 with a PHRF of 133 was not in those races, but I will go head to head with him on June 17. It gives me cause for concern. I don't think my boat is faster than a 40.5. My guess is that the 40.5 should be rated about 122 or 124.
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