I don't know how many of you know that as of yesterday Phil, Bly, and gang have established an alternative site to the Cruising World Bulletin Board (CWBB). The CWBB was a very lively, active (and often rancorous!) discussion forum sponsored by Cruising World magazine (nothing like the polite discussions here!). The corporate owners of CW recently announced that they were changing the format of the board to a new Java based system. The new site was unveiled yesterday and met with immediate and loud disapproval by the "denizens" (their name) of the group. Almost immediately Phil announced that he had set up an alternative site that mirrored the old CWBB with several enhancements. The denizens took off from CWBB in droves, and have effectively encamped in Phil's new site; when I looked a few minutes ago there had been over 650 posts since yesterday. Meanwhile, the new CWBB is languishing - almost all the posts there are about just how bad the new site is. Phil's new site is temporarily using the trailersailor domain until a new domain name is registered. I suggest everybody go over there (see related link) and take a look. Great work Phil and SailboatOwners.com!
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I saw an interesting comparison...
Somebody posted yesterday on the old CWBB that the forums like this on SailBoatOwners.com were really question and answer boards: I ask the question - and wait for you to give the answers. On the other hand CWBB (and the new CSBB) can be compared to dropping in to the neighborhood bar, where everybody knows each other, half of the people are drunk, and there are many simultaneous loud conversations going on about a diverse range of subjects with friendly barbs and insults being thrown in all directions. There is a place for both... ;D
Somebody posted yesterday on the old CWBB that the forums like this on SailBoatOwners.com were really question and answer boards: I ask the question - and wait for you to give the answers. On the other hand CWBB (and the new CSBB) can be compared to dropping in to the neighborhood bar, where everybody knows each other, half of the people are drunk, and there are many simultaneous loud conversations going on about a diverse range of subjects with friendly barbs and insults being thrown in all directions. There is a place for both... ;D
Even the denizens...
.. and other sailing a-holes need a place to post! But please keep them out of our forums.
.. and other sailing a-holes need a place to post! But please keep them out of our forums.
You could learn a lot from those denizens...
Yes, there are some jerks among them--no board (including this one) is immune from jerks...but most are experienced and/or wannabe serious blue water sailors and lboat owners who are very knowledgable--or are trying to be--about maintenance and every other issue. They share their knowledge willingly and aren't afraid to ask questions when they don't know. And they only beat up each other and anyone foolish enough to jump into one of their jabfests...never anyone else. Many of the "heavyweights" of sailing--the Pardy's, Tom Neale, Nigel Calder, just to name a few--often drop by to chat a bit. The regulars come from all walks of life and every lifestyle...brought together by a common love for sailing. No..some of 'em don't like Hunters... but there isn't a boat made that at least some of 'em don't like. Otoh, there are Hunter owners among the denizens...Catalina and Beneteau owners, and owners of just about every boat made. Most of 'em have nothing good to say about powerboaters...yet never once have I been flamed for being one. So you might want to spend some time there, at least lurking. You just might learn something you can share with the folks here.
Yes, there are some jerks among them--no board (including this one) is immune from jerks...but most are experienced and/or wannabe serious blue water sailors and lboat owners who are very knowledgable--or are trying to be--about maintenance and every other issue. They share their knowledge willingly and aren't afraid to ask questions when they don't know. And they only beat up each other and anyone foolish enough to jump into one of their jabfests...never anyone else. Many of the "heavyweights" of sailing--the Pardy's, Tom Neale, Nigel Calder, just to name a few--often drop by to chat a bit. The regulars come from all walks of life and every lifestyle...brought together by a common love for sailing. No..some of 'em don't like Hunters... but there isn't a boat made that at least some of 'em don't like. Otoh, there are Hunter owners among the denizens...Catalina and Beneteau owners, and owners of just about every boat made. Most of 'em have nothing good to say about powerboaters...yet never once have I been flamed for being one. So you might want to spend some time there, at least lurking. You just might learn something you can share with the folks here.
I just can't agree with that.
I've read their forums for quite a while. Never has there been a bigger collection of rude, arrogant, pompous, saltier-than-thou phonies all assembled in one place. ... and that's an advantage, because at least you know where they are. More power to Phil for scooping them up, but when they start posting in our forums, I'm outta here. Paul
I've read their forums for quite a while. Never has there been a bigger collection of rude, arrogant, pompous, saltier-than-thou phonies all assembled in one place. ... and that's an advantage, because at least you know where they are. More power to Phil for scooping them up, but when they start posting in our forums, I'm outta here. Paul
They like their own forums...
...and don't like these. In fact, a format not unlike this is what they left at Cruising World. I don't think there's much chance we'll see many new faces coming here from over there.
...and don't like these. In fact, a format not unlike this is what they left at Cruising World. I don't think there's much chance we'll see many new faces coming here from over there.
They won't post here...
... because this is the type of board format that they disdain and caused them to flee from the new CW site. I agree with Peggie, for all the nonsense that is posted there, there is the occasional nugget that is valuable.
... because this is the type of board format that they disdain and caused them to flee from the new CW site. I agree with Peggie, for all the nonsense that is posted there, there is the occasional nugget that is valuable.
I post on both and enjoyed the CWBB site but then
I am a Hunter owner. There really is only one main Hunter basher and that's Bernie, and you have to take him with a beer and a shot. Over time he even contridicts himself, but it can be a lot of fun.
I am a Hunter owner. There really is only one main Hunter basher and that's Bernie, and you have to take him with a beer and a shot. Over time he even contridicts himself, but it can be a lot of fun.
Peggy Nigel Calder, never (?) posts. But Bob Perry
often did (does). The renowned designer of such boats such as Valiants Nigel Calder never (?) posts but it might have been mostly due to the potential conflict of interest, since he writes a column for Sail Magazine and that board was being spoonsored by Cruising World There was a recent thread about this
often did (does). The renowned designer of such boats such as Valiants Nigel Calder never (?) posts but it might have been mostly due to the potential conflict of interest, since he writes a column for Sail Magazine and that board was being spoonsored by Cruising World There was a recent thread about this
He has, but it's been several years.
That could indeed be due to his affiliation with Sail now. And he's never stayed long when he has been there. I met him in Annapolis, btw. Very nice guy! Steve Pettingill has dropped in once or twice, as have most of the world class sailors over the years. Bob Perry has been active online for quite a while...I first met him on the old CompuServe sailing forum nearly 10 years ago. So it's a very interesting place, and worthwhile if you're smart enough to avoid the food fights.
That could indeed be due to his affiliation with Sail now. And he's never stayed long when he has been there. I met him in Annapolis, btw. Very nice guy! Steve Pettingill has dropped in once or twice, as have most of the world class sailors over the years. Bob Perry has been active online for quite a while...I first met him on the old CompuServe sailing forum nearly 10 years ago. So it's a very interesting place, and worthwhile if you're smart enough to avoid the food fights.
Guess what ;D
Cruising World has reinstated the Old CWBB two days after the mass exodus. Looks like some of the diehards have gone back home.
Cruising World has reinstated the Old CWBB two days after the mass exodus. Looks like some of the diehards have gone back home.
Peggy, your rose colored glasses are showing...
I find I tired easily of the CWBB and I think it's essentially for two reasons: lots of hot air and flab one must sort thru for the gems, and a generally negative, 'my way or the highway' attitude that's displayed by too many while intimidating even more. I can't say how many times I've heard this comment in personal conversations around the marina, boat show or gam but its hardly unique to a few. I think the reference to the 'old' Compuserve sailing forum is quite germane but proves the opposite point: what I sensed there was a lot of mutual support and willingness to help sort out an issue collaboratively. (Yes, I've seen that occasionally on the CWBB, too, but far less often). The other thing about the CIS forum that made it so effective was the presence of moderators - which I don't find on any of the BB's I visit these days. As Peggy will remember, having been one, these are just volunteers who might/might not specialize in a given subject matter but direct queries to previous threads, had access to the files of past threads, and only occasionally needed to steer things towards the constructive and away from the personal. Perhaps CW's new BB isn't a bad thing. Perhaps they wanted to change the flavor of things...and perhaps, whatever they intended, change will evolve that is satisfying. As for the many experts who supposedly visited there, I can only recall Evans Starzinger as being a regular contributor of substance with terribly impressive credentials. Of the Pardeys contributions I saw, they were mostly asking for help (e.g. on video production topics) or giving personal updates - fair participation to be sure, but hardly making the BB especially functional. Jack
I find I tired easily of the CWBB and I think it's essentially for two reasons: lots of hot air and flab one must sort thru for the gems, and a generally negative, 'my way or the highway' attitude that's displayed by too many while intimidating even more. I can't say how many times I've heard this comment in personal conversations around the marina, boat show or gam but its hardly unique to a few. I think the reference to the 'old' Compuserve sailing forum is quite germane but proves the opposite point: what I sensed there was a lot of mutual support and willingness to help sort out an issue collaboratively. (Yes, I've seen that occasionally on the CWBB, too, but far less often). The other thing about the CIS forum that made it so effective was the presence of moderators - which I don't find on any of the BB's I visit these days. As Peggy will remember, having been one, these are just volunteers who might/might not specialize in a given subject matter but direct queries to previous threads, had access to the files of past threads, and only occasionally needed to steer things towards the constructive and away from the personal. Perhaps CW's new BB isn't a bad thing. Perhaps they wanted to change the flavor of things...and perhaps, whatever they intended, change will evolve that is satisfying. As for the many experts who supposedly visited there, I can only recall Evans Starzinger as being a regular contributor of substance with terribly impressive credentials. Of the Pardeys contributions I saw, they were mostly asking for help (e.g. on video production topics) or giving personal updates - fair participation to be sure, but hardly making the BB especially functional. Jack
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