Penetrol

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Mar 21, 2004
343
Hunter 25.5 Carlyle, IL
We have a well-weathered gelcoat deck and are looking for something to seal it and provide a bit of a sheen. I've read that Penetrol is an option. Anyone have any experience? Are there other alternatives? I'm not worried about yellowing. We have a beige h25.5. A little yellowing might even be desirable. ;) We've done the hull topsides with PoliGlow and recognize that its inappropriate for the deck and cockpit.
 
Jun 3, 2004
890
Hunter 34 Toronto, Ontario Canada
Future Floor wax

There was a discussion back in the archives around the use of Future Floor wax on decks. Anyone still using this and how has the long term experience been? One of the concerns was yellowing as there is no UV protection in this product apparently.
 
Jun 4, 2004
167
- - Conway, Lake Ouachita, Arkansas
Last week there was a post on penetrol and I myself am scared to try it. I keep waiting for someone out there to tell me about a miracle for my topside and cockpit. So far everything that has been mentioned on this site has been bashed by others. So if there is a miracle cure for chalky topsides, please tell everyone. Tim Welsh H34 AKA Cabo Wabo
 
A

Andreas

Need to put in some honest work

There are no 'miracles' that last. I considered PoliGlo until I tried to get rid of the patchy old coat - which was a pain in the neck. Seems a waste of energy to have to go through that every year. Instead, I compounded the hull, gave it two waxings with buffs after each application. Even though it is almost 20 years old, the hull now looks like new and should stay that way with just one waxing at the start of each new season.
 
Mar 21, 2004
343
Hunter 25.5 Carlyle, IL
Hull is under control. How about

the deck and cockpit? Penetrol? Future Floor Wax? Island Girl non-skid sealer?
 
Dec 2, 2003
209
Hunter 34 Forked River, NJ
A friend tried that

several years ago on his Island Packet.(The I/P was a Florida boat that was not cared for by a previous owner) He found the penetrol to become sticky, then dirt was attracted to the surface, was a nightmare to remove, his next idea was to use Future floor wax, that too resulted in a sticky finish that was as bad as the penetrol. On my H34 I used Aurora products on the non skid, I found that to be the best so far. The product "Woodie Wax" is also good, neither product seems to be slippery, neither attracts dirt. Both need the surface to be clean to work well. I would suggest Aurora boat scrub to clean the area first. Best of luck!!
 
D

Darrel

Magic gelcoat potions

Bill, I guess I have an opinion about all the magic potions that are out there that various people tout as "magically" restoring to fnish. I seen a lot of my friends try all sorts of stuff to restore gelcoat. Bottom line is, once the gelcoat gets old and beaten up up UV, sand, salt or whatever your options become limited. Basically "there ain't nothing for free" (meaning that all of the options require work, elbow grease, and continued maintenance. For my money there is nothing like a good marine rubbing compound and a high speed buffer topped off with a good coat of high speed polished on wax. I honestly believe that this is the best way of maintaining your gel coat. If you are interested in really restorying the original gloss then go to repainting of the hull and deck.
 
Jun 17, 2004
10
- - HONOLULU
Here we go again!

1. Penetrol. I don't know much about this. I do know that it is found in our local hardware store as an additive to pains and varnishes. It has been around a long time and the use on gelcoat is sort of like wetting it but apparently it does dry as well. I promise that I will research the chemical nature products (sounds like a "drying oil" and do some tests myself. I have a friend who uses it on polished brass but has to renew it every so often. 1. Waxes. Anybody who has used "sex wax" (hope this post does not get banned!) or other surf wax or who has seen a candle, know that wax, itself is NOT slippery - quite the opposite. Instead it has a dull, slightly chalky surface, especially as it weathers. It DOES soak up oily contaminant, however, that is why ""black streak removers" are really wax removers. The reason why waxes are shiny and slippery is becuase of ..."SILICONES"... (actually dimethyl silicones that are generally very shiny and slippery like the original armorall. These eventually vaporise out and are broken down by UV that is why waxed surfaces go dull first, then (more slowly) lose their water repellancy. Because wax is really just a very hard fat, it could be be removed by stronger cleaners and detergents (that always contain a little solvent too). To resist removal of the wax when you wash your car (or boat) additives are put in that are detergent resistant. The main one used is also silicone related (silicone just means silicon rather than carbon as the molecular backbone in molecules containing oxygen - silicon dioxide is GLASS!). Thi main additive is called an organofunctional silane . Usually an amino group is the functional group and strong versions can actually smell of ammonia. They can form a "varnish-like" material (highly reactive as in some glues" or rubber like. Only a limited amount can be used as it can otherwise become yellowed - not a good idea on white surfaces especially since carnuaba is already a bit yellow looking. Another additive to add detergent and weather resistance are silicone resins. These are tough and do not yellow and are even used in heat-proof paints. There are some car waxes claiming one year protection that contain these additives. Of couse, anti-oxiatns UV blockers and other additives are also there to help protect the wax finish. A good marine wax (the best is Collinite paste wax) will last quite well and protect against oxidation (but maybe not against color fade) on a NEW(ISH) boat. On an old oxidized boat you would have to completely remove and kill all the oxidation that is deep down in the gelcoat pores (and old gelcoat is porous). Plus wax is a very thin coating and a poor barrier to oxygen, ozone and UV. The analogy is simple. Just try puttin a coat of wax on a brand new piece of steel, then try the same on a piece of steel that has deep seated rust but has been sand to remove surface rust. I think you know the result without trying. Wax will pretty well protect the brand new surface but the metal with rust in the pores. Same for gelcoat chalky oxidation. It is really "plastic rust"! 3. Water-based acrylics (Nuglass, Poliglow, Vertglass, TSRW , Starbright etc). This is also where "Future". MopnGlow, Bright etc also belong. All these products evolved from the "non-wax kitchen floor coatings of the 1960's or thereabouts. I believe that Johnson and Johnson were the first to introduce this. Of course kitchen floors are not exposed to UV, so the marine versions do have anti-oxidants etc added. There are pluses and minuses to these products. First they MUST NOT BE USED ON NEW BOATS! These coatings will not stick unless (like a painted surface) the surface has a physical key and I don't think that you will want to sand your brand new boat!. Secondly even that best of these products will eventually yellow (not a good idea on a white boat), although can strip and redo. If there is not sufficient adhesion (gelcoat not porous, or rough enough, or not all wax & silicones removed), flaking and peelling will occur. Cracking is an eventual problem solved by removal. On the plus side, very good results can be obtained on older porous gelcoat, particularly on darker colors. Many coats have to be applied, becuase the first few are soaking down into the pores. pores and form the "anchor" to keep the final outside coating from peeling off. However, these coatings will greatly outshine and outlast regular wax, as they should being essentially a clearcoat paint! They are also a much better barrier against oxygen than wax to protect against oxidation of the gelcoat. A shine usually lasts a season, sometimes as long as a year. Evbentually, of course these coatings have to be stripped off before redoing or going back to another way. This is becuase the material in the pores will eventually go the way of (even auto solvent-based) clearcoats. If becomes grey/yellow and opaque, You can strip with ammonia-based strippers. 4, The Island Girl Approach. being the inventor (and sole investor) am sort of biased, but I want to point out the logic. On smooth gelcoat, our cleanser condiioners DISSOLVE out and kill the oxidation and inhibit midew growth. On white or most other colors the SEA GLOW cleanser/conditioner is "lights up the colors" due to strong fluorescing agents. You can use this regardless of final coating used to produce the shine. To seal over the porosity, just wipe over with some Silkenseal. This forms a rubbery "plastic skin" that does not dissolve when an outer coat of paste wax or our "Superwax" is applied. Our superwax has gone through several improvements since first introduced, so that is now sets up fast (especially with new catalyst) but not so fast as an acrylic. Therefore it "flows out" to produce a mirror shine without need for buffing. However it can be buffed later, if necessary, using silkenseal as a cleaner/lubricant. This Simply Brilliant Superwax is mostly resins (you guess which ones!) together with a small amount of a synthetic non organic wax (is not and does not yellow). There is no water content. We recently reduced the amount of wax content to reduce "black streak" staining. It can be applied , and will stick to any hard surface. It is a barrier to oxygen and contains anet-oxidants, including fluesceing anti-color fade additives. Mirror Hard superglaze is now identical to the superwax, but has NO wax content so is completely stain resistant. It can be wiped onto NEW boats or painted or metal surfaces, even over existing clean waxed surfaces. As for non-skid that's another but similar story - but you cannot use abrasive compounding if you want to keep the non-skid "teeth"! You want to see some internet movies on this (you can ignore the promotional parts) you can send me your - e-mail address or call. Dr. Anthony L. (yes its "Jim") Willis
 
T

Tom S

Penetrol -- isn't that really used with varnish

as a thinner for the first coat on wood the help the varnish sink in and really adhere to the wood. I use it often for that (and it works very well I might add -- sometimes varnish is very thick and the first coat doesn't sink as well as you'd like). I have heard you can put it on fiberglass, but its an oil based thing and sooner or later it will yellow and dull (no?! - unless I'm wrong) -So while I guess you could do it and it might put a temporary shine on the fiberglass I'm not so sure how lovely it'll look in 2-3 years -- (and then try and remove it .....). Somthing to think about - The company that makes it "Floodco" doesn't adverstise it as a fiberglass sealer, etc (http://www.floodco.com/Products/penetrol.cfm Before you put Penetrol on your boat READ THIS FIRST http://www.safetyharborboatclub.org/MaintTips/MaintTips_Penetrol.asp ps..a bit of Trivia - PENETROL is trademark of Halliburton Energy Services
 
Mar 21, 2004
343
Hunter 25.5 Carlyle, IL
First coat

We've put an initial coat of Future Floor Finish on all the above hull exterior surfaces except the cockpit sole (which was slow to dry after the wash down). Though a little splotchy, it looks pretty good. I'll try coat #2 tomorrow to even out the color and finish sheen. We're supposed to wait at least 8 hours between coats. We have so far used 1/2 bottle of material. Just a point to add. We have an 84 H25.5. She is beige so a little yellowing or streaking won't show up like it would on white gelcoat. More reports later....
 
Mar 21, 2004
343
Hunter 25.5 Carlyle, IL
Future Floor results - second coat

Due to other commitments, I was unable to get back out to the boat until this evening. The first impression upon arriving was that the boat looked cleaner than it had in the past. Wiping my hand over the surface confirmed this. But rather than take any chances, I cleaned the deck before the second coat. Footing was good on the wet deck after the first coat. Maybe slightly better than the non-sealed deck, but no worse. The streaks and blotchiness from the first coat were still apparent after the second coat, but it is certainly not bad. It looks like I just didn't quite get everything clean enough before I applied the first coat. After the second coat dried, the boat had a very nice silky sheen. The streaks and blotchy areas are probably most noticable to me. Its not obvious except on close inspection. It passes the 10 foot rule. There were no issues with footing after the second coat, but I'm going to let the surface cure completely before I wet is again and test its non-skid properties. There is probably some yellowing associated with the streaks that doesn't show up on our light beige deck. If someone wanted to use this on a white deck, I might suggest testing it on a small area that doesn't show before doing the whole deck.
 
Mar 21, 2004
343
Hunter 25.5 Carlyle, IL
Results of Future Floor Finish

Looked good. Fairly even color. Good footing even when wet. Boat rinsed clean (but there was heavy rain yesterday). The deck now has about the same color as the topsides. There is a silky semi-gloss finish. On some areas of the textured non-skid deck, the finish didn't get completely into the "valleys". This caused the remaining difference in coloration. Maybe tomorrow, I'll do a little touch up. It took a fraction over a bottle of the finish at $5 per bottle to do the entire boat. I'm satisfied.
 
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