I am new to sailing and am wondering how to separate the quality production boats from the cheap boats. Where do Catalina, Hunter, McGregor, Benneteau, etc. stand in the quality scale ? What is the best production boat, and what is the worst ? Thanks
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Too big and too policitican an issue.
Terry: This is such a subjective question and will bring on the biggots. Over the years we have heard about how terrible all the makes that you have mentioned are. If you realy want to hear the bad stuff go to something like Cruising World bulletin board. They don't even like their mothers. A lot of people (sailors) like these models for different reasons. We have heard that Catalinas have much better resale than Hunters. Not so sure that this is true (Catalinas cost more to begin with). Then we have heard about the older Catalinas coming apart offshore. The Catalina quality has come a long way but so has Hunter. Beneteaus in my opinion have tended to look very shabby after a few years on their lower end boats (they make different series). There newer boats are quite nice. The also own Jeaneau and make one of my favorite the 43DS (deck salon). Then we have Mac's. I don't want to offend anyone but the Macgregors are so lightly built and are not very good sailors. On the other hand they can do 20-30mph with their 50hp engines. This makes it a good compromise boat for many boaters. Catalinas have had the same model boats forever. They have upgraded these models over the years but they are basically the same boats. They are not very innovative. They make their own spars. We have had good and bad feedback about their customer service. Beneteaus seem to much more innovative than Catalina. They are a French mfg company with a plant in the Carolinas and seem to produce nice boats. I really have not heard a lot about these boats pro/con. I know nothing about their customer service. Hunter is probably one of the more innovative mfg around. They do seem to keep changing models all the time. This is probably not in the best interest of their customers from the stand point of resale. In my opinion, they have some of the best rigging that there is on ANY boat. They have done some things that I don't like. The archs that were fiberglass was really not my favorite. The new stainless steel is great. The windows being all different shapes is not much to my liking either. They have increased their quality over the few years tremendously. They have some of the better customer service around and go out of their way to help the customer (read about some of their customer service issues in the archives). They have more usable space for the size of their boats than most mfg. The main thing when you are looking for a boat, is to find what appeals to you. What are you going to do with the boat. If you plan on sailing to Hawaii and the south seas, these may not be the best choice for you. If you are going to do coastal sailing in S.D. with the light air, you are going to find the Hunter to be a better choice than the Catalina. If I were looking for a boat, I'd see what I could afford and look at everything in that price range. Check out the reputation for the specific model that you like and go from there. If you are going to purchase a used boat, you need to find a surveyor and find out what they think about the boats that you like.
Terry: This is such a subjective question and will bring on the biggots. Over the years we have heard about how terrible all the makes that you have mentioned are. If you realy want to hear the bad stuff go to something like Cruising World bulletin board. They don't even like their mothers. A lot of people (sailors) like these models for different reasons. We have heard that Catalinas have much better resale than Hunters. Not so sure that this is true (Catalinas cost more to begin with). Then we have heard about the older Catalinas coming apart offshore. The Catalina quality has come a long way but so has Hunter. Beneteaus in my opinion have tended to look very shabby after a few years on their lower end boats (they make different series). There newer boats are quite nice. The also own Jeaneau and make one of my favorite the 43DS (deck salon). Then we have Mac's. I don't want to offend anyone but the Macgregors are so lightly built and are not very good sailors. On the other hand they can do 20-30mph with their 50hp engines. This makes it a good compromise boat for many boaters. Catalinas have had the same model boats forever. They have upgraded these models over the years but they are basically the same boats. They are not very innovative. They make their own spars. We have had good and bad feedback about their customer service. Beneteaus seem to much more innovative than Catalina. They are a French mfg company with a plant in the Carolinas and seem to produce nice boats. I really have not heard a lot about these boats pro/con. I know nothing about their customer service. Hunter is probably one of the more innovative mfg around. They do seem to keep changing models all the time. This is probably not in the best interest of their customers from the stand point of resale. In my opinion, they have some of the best rigging that there is on ANY boat. They have done some things that I don't like. The archs that were fiberglass was really not my favorite. The new stainless steel is great. The windows being all different shapes is not much to my liking either. They have increased their quality over the few years tremendously. They have some of the better customer service around and go out of their way to help the customer (read about some of their customer service issues in the archives). They have more usable space for the size of their boats than most mfg. The main thing when you are looking for a boat, is to find what appeals to you. What are you going to do with the boat. If you plan on sailing to Hawaii and the south seas, these may not be the best choice for you. If you are going to do coastal sailing in S.D. with the light air, you are going to find the Hunter to be a better choice than the Catalina. If I were looking for a boat, I'd see what I could afford and look at everything in that price range. Check out the reputation for the specific model that you like and go from there. If you are going to purchase a used boat, you need to find a surveyor and find out what they think about the boats that you like.
nicely stated steve
you will often hear the quote "there is no such thing as a bad boat , just a boat used in the wrong way" i have to agree. ive sailed on everthing from lasers to jboats to cheoylees and tayannas ,(though i missed a ride on a baba 30 that really had my eye for a while.) anyway what it boils down to is find the boats that are sailing the way you want to and stick with those models. natural selection at work. and stay on the smaller side of whats there too. you will sail a smaller boat more. when i had my 23 i was wanting to move up and every sailor in the marina was saying you will sail less and how they had wished that they had kept their smaller boat.then they would gently remind me of who went out over the weekend and who stayed at the dock. short story ....you do go out less , the key ,keep the small one too!! best of luck.
you will often hear the quote "there is no such thing as a bad boat , just a boat used in the wrong way" i have to agree. ive sailed on everthing from lasers to jboats to cheoylees and tayannas ,(though i missed a ride on a baba 30 that really had my eye for a while.) anyway what it boils down to is find the boats that are sailing the way you want to and stick with those models. natural selection at work. and stay on the smaller side of whats there too. you will sail a smaller boat more. when i had my 23 i was wanting to move up and every sailor in the marina was saying you will sail less and how they had wished that they had kept their smaller boat.then they would gently remind me of who went out over the weekend and who stayed at the dock. short story ....you do go out less , the key ,keep the small one too!! best of luck.
Ron/KA5HZV
All depends on intended use
The very same boat can be terrible or terrific depending on how it is used. A Westsail wouldn't be a good choice for racing... a Venture wouldn't be the best way to circumnavigate. But both boats are excellent for their intended use. How do you plan to use yours?
The very same boat can be terrible or terrific depending on how it is used. A Westsail wouldn't be a good choice for racing... a Venture wouldn't be the best way to circumnavigate. But both boats are excellent for their intended use. How do you plan to use yours?
Practical Sailor Guide
I think Steve nailed this one pretty good. When it comes to boats and boat buying everyone has an opinion. In a lot of ways it winds up being (a) what boat is right for what application; and (b) what boat appeals to you? Practical Sailor publishes a 2-volume book called "Practical Boat Buying" that gives a pretty objective review of about 100 or so boats. They're also a bit biased; for instance, they rarely give praise to Catalinas, while grudgingly recognizing that they're good solid boats and that thousands of them are on the water. Sometimes you have to read a little between the lines in their reviews. But they are excellent in telling what to look out for on specific boats when considering them for purchase -- which engines to avoid, where to look for mechanical problems, etc. As to the "big boat/small boat" debate -- we've got a 30 footer and sail almost every weekend. But I see a lot of bigger and smaller boats that never leave the marina (and have bottom growth to prove it!). Maybe this is an argument for a sailing dinghy? Mike Turner S/V Amity (C30) I've seen some boats that I consider VERY ugly that other people love, and I'm sure the reverse is true.
I think Steve nailed this one pretty good. When it comes to boats and boat buying everyone has an opinion. In a lot of ways it winds up being (a) what boat is right for what application; and (b) what boat appeals to you? Practical Sailor publishes a 2-volume book called "Practical Boat Buying" that gives a pretty objective review of about 100 or so boats. They're also a bit biased; for instance, they rarely give praise to Catalinas, while grudgingly recognizing that they're good solid boats and that thousands of them are on the water. Sometimes you have to read a little between the lines in their reviews. But they are excellent in telling what to look out for on specific boats when considering them for purchase -- which engines to avoid, where to look for mechanical problems, etc. As to the "big boat/small boat" debate -- we've got a 30 footer and sail almost every weekend. But I see a lot of bigger and smaller boats that never leave the marina (and have bottom growth to prove it!). Maybe this is an argument for a sailing dinghy? Mike Turner S/V Amity (C30) I've seen some boats that I consider VERY ugly that other people love, and I'm sure the reverse is true.
Quality wise to me
In my humble opinion the four boats stand overall (quality wise) as 1,3,4 and 2...........
In my humble opinion the four boats stand overall (quality wise) as 1,3,4 and 2...........
Size matters, but not . . .
as some of you have suggested. At least I don't think smaller boats necessarily get more use. It depends, again, on your location and situation. Last Monday evening I was the only sail in sight on my H37C. Unless you are in a bay Lake Erie can often be too much to handle for small craft, certainly uncomfortable. If I lived close to good sailing protected water I would have both, a sailing dinghy and something suitable for occasional overnights.
as some of you have suggested. At least I don't think smaller boats necessarily get more use. It depends, again, on your location and situation. Last Monday evening I was the only sail in sight on my H37C. Unless you are in a bay Lake Erie can often be too much to handle for small craft, certainly uncomfortable. If I lived close to good sailing protected water I would have both, a sailing dinghy and something suitable for occasional overnights.
Expereince Suggests
Having owned a Catalina and several Hunters, and extensively chartered Beneteaus I would have to say that the three are generally comparable. Each has advantages and drawbacks. Swan and Hinckley are at the upper end of the $$$$spectrum. McGregor, Odays, are at the lower end. But as others have said, it depends on what you want to do. Learned more about sailing on my Hobie 18 than on any other boat . . . and yet that was the least expensive boat that I've had. On that, when you got wet, you knew you did it wrong. <grin>
Having owned a Catalina and several Hunters, and extensively chartered Beneteaus I would have to say that the three are generally comparable. Each has advantages and drawbacks. Swan and Hinckley are at the upper end of the $$$$spectrum. McGregor, Odays, are at the lower end. But as others have said, it depends on what you want to do. Learned more about sailing on my Hobie 18 than on any other boat . . . and yet that was the least expensive boat that I've had. On that, when you got wet, you knew you did it wrong. <grin>
boat size and handling
Terry, As far as quality goes i think it depends on the size you are looking at. 25's 30's 35's. I think that one manufacture builds a better small boat and another builds a better larger boat. I personally look at the handling of each boat. Some boats seem to be very easy to sail because everything is placed well. I have sailed on some boats that nothing was easy to use. Tiller to short and low, winches on the cabin top were to far from the tiller for single handing. Wheel was too big for the cockpit. Reefing was required before hull speed was made. I would get aboard every boat you are looking at and sail it. I mean sail it. Look at the rigging and compare it to one of equal size. Look for creature comforts. If you spend any time on the boat, creature comforts become important. Sound (tap) the hull, is it solid or thin? Is the hardware backed with plates? If you look at boats with some of these things in mind you will judge them to your satisfaction. They all have their pluses and their minuses. For me sailing and safety are first and the creature comforts come a close second. good luck in your quest, r.w. landau
Terry, As far as quality goes i think it depends on the size you are looking at. 25's 30's 35's. I think that one manufacture builds a better small boat and another builds a better larger boat. I personally look at the handling of each boat. Some boats seem to be very easy to sail because everything is placed well. I have sailed on some boats that nothing was easy to use. Tiller to short and low, winches on the cabin top were to far from the tiller for single handing. Wheel was too big for the cockpit. Reefing was required before hull speed was made. I would get aboard every boat you are looking at and sail it. I mean sail it. Look at the rigging and compare it to one of equal size. Look for creature comforts. If you spend any time on the boat, creature comforts become important. Sound (tap) the hull, is it solid or thin? Is the hardware backed with plates? If you look at boats with some of these things in mind you will judge them to your satisfaction. They all have their pluses and their minuses. For me sailing and safety are first and the creature comforts come a close second. good luck in your quest, r.w. landau
Thanks For all the great feedback !!
Your comments were terrific. You all seem to be in agreement that I should buy the boat that fits the type of sailing I want to do : basically, coastal sailing in San Diego and Southern Cal. with the occasional trip into Mexican waters. I'll leave Hawaii for you old salts (grin). I love this forum as I feel not so alone and uninformed as i have when I've made other purchases of big ticket items. You have given me much to think about, including the comment from Ron regarding the likelihood that I will sail more often in a smaller boat.
Your comments were terrific. You all seem to be in agreement that I should buy the boat that fits the type of sailing I want to do : basically, coastal sailing in San Diego and Southern Cal. with the occasional trip into Mexican waters. I'll leave Hawaii for you old salts (grin). I love this forum as I feel not so alone and uninformed as i have when I've made other purchases of big ticket items. You have given me much to think about, including the comment from Ron regarding the likelihood that I will sail more often in a smaller boat.
"The Best Boat in which to cruise.....
...is the one that takes you cruising!" Regarding small boats, I learned a ton from sailing my inflatable Tinker Tramp, which truly is a small boat! Revealing story regarding Practical Sailor which magazine used to fall over itself to make disparaging remarks about Hunters. Chief among the naysayers was a writer / editor named Ron Dwelle. Pretty snooty, I thought back then. And I really raised an eyebrow when I happened to talk to him and he stated that when he bought his new boat, one of the two finalists had been a Hunter!!!!!You have to read that magazine carefully, I think.
...is the one that takes you cruising!" Regarding small boats, I learned a ton from sailing my inflatable Tinker Tramp, which truly is a small boat! Revealing story regarding Practical Sailor which magazine used to fall over itself to make disparaging remarks about Hunters. Chief among the naysayers was a writer / editor named Ron Dwelle. Pretty snooty, I thought back then. And I really raised an eyebrow when I happened to talk to him and he stated that when he bought his new boat, one of the two finalists had been a Hunter!!!!!You have to read that magazine carefully, I think.
One method
As a REALTOR, I approached buying a used 1990 42 Hunter similar to buying a house. Write down a list of the pros and cons and total them up placing a weighted value to MUST have items to WISH list items. How much extra will I need to spend to get it the way I want over a competing boat. Check out the quality by sailing her. Example: If you were to buy a new car would you give it an accurate rating for the future by test driving only a new one? Wouldn't it be good to drive the same model with 80,000 on the odometer to get a more accurate account of what to expect in the future? Looked at 8 brands in the size/price range before settling on a hunter. Then looked at 9 42's before deciding on the one purchased. Just a thought, and good luck. If interested I know of at least 2 for sale in Channel Islands harbor.
As a REALTOR, I approached buying a used 1990 42 Hunter similar to buying a house. Write down a list of the pros and cons and total them up placing a weighted value to MUST have items to WISH list items. How much extra will I need to spend to get it the way I want over a competing boat. Check out the quality by sailing her. Example: If you were to buy a new car would you give it an accurate rating for the future by test driving only a new one? Wouldn't it be good to drive the same model with 80,000 on the odometer to get a more accurate account of what to expect in the future? Looked at 8 brands in the size/price range before settling on a hunter. Then looked at 9 42's before deciding on the one purchased. Just a thought, and good luck. If interested I know of at least 2 for sale in Channel Islands harbor.
New or Used ?
If you are looking for new and can't decide between the four , check out the warranties, that may help with your decision. There are major differences. If Used, also check for transference of warranties, but look for the boat with the best upkeep that meets your needs. I would say that Catalina, Hunter and Beneteau are trying for the same market niche while the Mac Gregor is really a different concept. Only you can decide.
If you are looking for new and can't decide between the four , check out the warranties, that may help with your decision. There are major differences. If Used, also check for transference of warranties, but look for the boat with the best upkeep that meets your needs. I would say that Catalina, Hunter and Beneteau are trying for the same market niche while the Mac Gregor is really a different concept. Only you can decide.
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