Passage 42 electric heads

[hunter42sail]

We have a Hunter Passage 42 (91). There two Jabsco electric heads on the boat. At the end of last year the heads stopped working. Well it's time to fix them. The vent was clogged and I fixed that problem.

Aft head: With the thru hull open the bowl will fill but not empty. Once the thru hull is closed the bowl emptys.

Fwd head: With the thru hull open the bowl fills but won't empty. When I close the thru hull it won't flush and fills to the top of the bowl.

Any help that anyone can give would be helpful.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Which thru-hull...

flush water intake, or direct overboard discharge?

Which model # Jabsco? How old?

Do the toilet motors sound strong or weak?

Any other information will be helpful.

 

[hunter42sail]

Model 37010-0000
Age 1991
Sound strong

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

They're 18 years old!

They're worn out! But the motors are still strong, so...

When, if ever, was the last time they were rebuilt (service kit installed)? 'Cuz from the skimpy amount of information you seem willing to provide, my top of the head guess is, the discharge impeller has had it.

You forgot to say which thru-hull you were opening and closing...intake or discharge.

Have you checked the head discharge hoses to see how much, if any, sea water mineral buildup is in 'em? A heavy concentration of mineral buildup can reduce the diameter enough to create more backpressure than the toilet pump can overcome.

And I'd check the tank vent again too. There are TWO common places for blockage to occur...the thru-hull and the connection to the tank--both the tank fitting and that end of the vent line. So you may have cleaned out only one blockage.

If none of the above, give Mike Irving at Jabsco a call: 978-282-5227.

 

[hunter42sail]

Re: They're 18 years old!

I will start by replacing all of the discharge hoses to the tank. Replacing the vent line is almost impossable on the 42 with out putting in a new discharge vent.

Over the years I have replaced some of the parts. I will bring them home and rebuild them.

The thru hull I was closing was the intake. I always keep the discharge thru hull from the holding tank closed.

Is there away to check if the solenoid is working? The aft head will bring water into the bowl but want to keep filling the bowl. When I close the intake thru hull it pump the bowl dry.

 

[Guest]

P42 electric heads

Both original electric heads on our 1991 P42 work every time and flawlessly. When we purchased Belle-Vie in 2002 the heads worked but would not flush. Check out the 42 Model Info tab above for some articles that I wrote about the blocked tank vent line and through hull scupper.

Our vent line is still good, but not that difficult to replace, if need be. As Peggie noted, what did you do to confirm the tank vent was clear? That was the first symptom we experienced as the new owner when scrubbing her clean from bow to stern. Water just swirled in the bowl, but would not discharge to the tank.

The PO sold us a boat with a full holding tank and a blocked tank vent. Once we cleared the system and followed Peggie's advice on holding tank maintenance, it has operated trouble free ever since.

Unless the head discharge hoses have become permeated, I would continue to use the ones in place. As far as the head operation goes, a small amount of sea water will remain flowing into the bowl, since it is below the water line. Once I close the through hull the bowl empties. The siphon break and solenoid for the aft head is in the main propulsion room, starboard bulkhead. The break for the forward head is located behind a small panel on the forward side of the most forward starboard cabinet in the main salon. A volt meter should help you determine whether they still work.

I would be happy to answer any other questions that you have about your boat. The P42 is a wonderful boat in most all aspects.

Terry Cox

 

[Guest]

P42 Heads

The articles in question can be found under Boat Info tab above, then Hunter Owner Modifications, then model 42. One is titled "Head Winds", another is "Head Operation".

Terry Cox

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

No need to replace hoses unless...

They're permeated with odor or so old they're hard and brittle. Stinky hoses don't affect toilet performance. Once you get your toilets working again, you can clean any buildup out of 'em with muriatic acid.

I think you have TWO problems...one that causes water to keep filling the bowl when the thru-hull is open...and another that's preventing the toilet from discharging.

Discharge:
My first thought was low voltage to the toilet...that's the leading cause of sluggish discharge. But you say the motors are strong. Still, I'd put a volt meter on 'em anyway to make sure they're actually getting a full 12v. Check while flushing.

If the voltage checks out ok, my money is on the tank vent. Clean out the thru-hull with a screw driver blade--or whatever works...remove the vent line from the tank and clean out the fitting and that end of the hose. Before removing the vent line from the tank, it would be a VERY good idea to open the deck pumpout fitting first to relieve any pressure.

If the vent line has permeated and requires replacement, relocating the vent thru-hull might be a very good idea if it results in a shorter straighter vent line.

Bowl flooding:
The solenoid valve in the vented loop is almost certain to be your culprit...'cuz when a toilet primes, a siphon starts...and if there's no air break in the intake line, the siphon will keep the water flowing. You should be able to see/hear whether either one is working. Even if it's not, the intake impeller should at least slow down the flow of water...if it doesn't, it's time to replace the impeller.

You'll find the manual for the toilet here: http://www.jabsco.com/files/37010_elec_toilet.pdf

 

[hunter42sail]

Update

I removed the heads today. I found that the forward head hose had gotten kinked and was plugged. The aft head hose was about 50% full. I picked up a new toilet at Boaters World and tomorrow I am going to get the second one. The vent line is going to have to be relocated as I can't get to the thru hull. after 18 years it was time to replace them. They were pretty gross.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Wait a minute...

You found the discharge hose from the forward toilet was kinked and plugged...and the hose from the aft toilet was about 50% clogged...no mention whatever that you found anything wrong with the toilets themselves.

So WHY are you buying new toilets instead of correcting plumbing????

 

[hunter42sail]

Re: Wait a minute...

We had talked about new heads the last couple years. The bowls were new with the boat and were showing their age. One pump was 18 years old and in bad shape once I took it apart. The other pump I will rebuild as a spare. Plus spare time is something I don't have a lot of. Over the years these heads have given me problems that came with the boat when I bought it.

 

[Head Master18695]

Re: Wait a minute...

SeaEra conversion kits????

 

[hunter42sail]

Water filling bowl

I replaced the two heads with like Jabsco heads. Everything worked fine until last weekend. We took the boat out for the long weekend. While motoring I left the aft head thru hull open so the wife could us the head. It filled the bowl and the holding tank. I'm guessing the the solenoid value that is letting water into the head.

 

[Guest]

P42 Heads

Yup! Most likely the siphon break valve, solenoid or both need to be either cleaned, tested for operation or replaced. If it were my boat I would start with testing to make sure the system functions. If original equipment, it may be frozen in the closed position. I always close the through hulls when finished using the head, well almost always.

Terry Cox

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You guessed correctly...it's the solenoid valve

As "guest" said, it may just need cleaning...but if they're as old as the previous toilets, and if you didn't replace 'em, you'd be smarter to do so than to mess with 'em.

 

[Ron20324]

I replaced the two heads with like Jabsco heads. Everything worked fine until last weekend. We took the boat out for the long weekend. While motoring I left the aft head thru hull open so the wife could us the head. It filled the bowl and the holding tank. I'm guessing the the solenoid value that is letting water into the head.

Do you have a macerator and perhaps left it's thru-hull open, causing the back-filling?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Unlikely, Ron

Do you have a macerator and perhaps left it's thru-hull open, causing the back-filling?

'Cuz he said the bowl filled. He has new toilets, which means new joker valves that wouldn't let that happen...water would go out the tank vent instead. Macerators don't let water back up through 'em any faster than that.

While new jokers would block backflow, they only allow very slow seepage OUT of the bowl...so unless the solenoid valve is only seeping too, a new joker valve wouldn't let the bowl drain fast enough to keep it from overflowing.

Otoh, it could be a combination of things all happening at once.

 

[Guest]

P42 Heads

Our 1991 P42 has a macerator and if the through hull is left open raw water will seep back through the pump and fill the holding tank to water level. Since the holding tank is below the waterline and the tank vent is above, no harm done, I suppose. This might have happened to me before. I suspect his P42 has a macerator, too.

Same goes for the heads. A broken in the closed position anti-siphon valve will allow raw water to continue flowing into the head after flushing and on to the holding tank until water level is reached. This might have happened to me before, too. In this case it appears the rim of the toilet is above the waterline; whew! Otherwise,...

My practice is to leave the hatch board off until flushing is complete as a reminder that the through hull is open. This practice seems to work in every case, well almost every case. The admiral has been known to step into an open hatch board in the middle of the night before. Ouch!

After more than seven years and thousands of miles cruising Belle-Vie, I have come to believe that Hunter placed considerable thought into the P42's systems design. Things just seem to work so well in spite of skippers like me.

Terry Cox

 

[hunter42sail]

Solenoid

I found that the problem was the solenoid. Tomorrow I was going down to Fisheries in Seattle and replace both of the solenoids on the boat. The fwd one is ok but I want a spare.

 

[Guest]

P42 electric heads

Congratulations! It appears your efforts paid off.

Thanks for the update. I'm assuming that you inspected the siphon break and it operates as normal. The old aft head unit on our boat was pretty badly corroded and was replaced with new.

Terry Cox