Peggy, it is time to replace the Par manual head in my H33. I was going to replace it with the same unit untill I saw a recent post noting that there has been some trouble with these units. Also, my guests seem to have problems pumping the par unit claiming it is too hard to pump on wet bowl. It has a 3/4" intake line on a 1" thru-hull and does take quite a lot of effort to pump. I am wondering would it be worth the extra $150 to go with the Raritan PH2? Do you think it is easier to operate?
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I've ALWAYS been partial to Raritan...
The PH II has been considered the best manual toilet in its price range since it was just the original PH...and that's a LOT of years!. However, a few years ago Raritan introduced a new toilet--the Cricket--that you might like even better...'cuz instead of the usual piston/cylinder pump beside the bowl, it has a diaphragm pum directly beneath the bowl...no moving parts to wear and need periodic rebuilding...only the joker valve. In fact, the "repair kit" consists of the entire diaphragm...in effect, complete pump replacement. Check 'em both out on the Raritan website at www.raritaneng.com There shouldn't be a $150 difference in the price either...both WM and Defender's price for the Cricket is $199 (standard bowl..."highboy" bowl is a bit more)...and the Ph II isn't a lot more. Btw...I'm no longer associated with Raritan, so I'm under no obligation to recommend Raritan products over any others. I've always considered their products to be the best value for the money, though...and their customer support to be the best in the industry....one of the major reasons why I sold my own company to them.
The PH II has been considered the best manual toilet in its price range since it was just the original PH...and that's a LOT of years!. However, a few years ago Raritan introduced a new toilet--the Cricket--that you might like even better...'cuz instead of the usual piston/cylinder pump beside the bowl, it has a diaphragm pum directly beneath the bowl...no moving parts to wear and need periodic rebuilding...only the joker valve. In fact, the "repair kit" consists of the entire diaphragm...in effect, complete pump replacement. Check 'em both out on the Raritan website at www.raritaneng.com There shouldn't be a $150 difference in the price either...both WM and Defender's price for the Cricket is $199 (standard bowl..."highboy" bowl is a bit more)...and the Ph II isn't a lot more. Btw...I'm no longer associated with Raritan, so I'm under no obligation to recommend Raritan products over any others. I've always considered their products to be the best value for the money, though...and their customer support to be the best in the industry....one of the major reasons why I sold my own company to them.
Best Improvement Ever!
A couple years ago our Sea-Land head packed it up and after doing some research in the catalogs I came across a Raritan model where one could buy the lower assembly, sans bowl. The Sea-Land bowl bolt patern matched exactly. the other thing I checked was the mounting hole pattern for the lower assembly and the Raritan was close - not an exact fit. Checked other clearances and hose connections and the lower unit was very close to the Sea-Land. The Raritan has a handle lever-arm which the Par and Sea-Land did not have. The lever provides a mechanical advantage of about 3:1 or 4:1 (by eyeball and based on memory). My wife says the change was one of the all-time best improvements on the boat. Plug the old holes with white epoxy and polish smooth. Before drilling new holes try lifting the seat to check for clearances. On our setup the shower seat cannot be lowered horizontal because the overall height is an inch or so higher.
A couple years ago our Sea-Land head packed it up and after doing some research in the catalogs I came across a Raritan model where one could buy the lower assembly, sans bowl. The Sea-Land bowl bolt patern matched exactly. the other thing I checked was the mounting hole pattern for the lower assembly and the Raritan was close - not an exact fit. Checked other clearances and hose connections and the lower unit was very close to the Sea-Land. The Raritan has a handle lever-arm which the Par and Sea-Land did not have. The lever provides a mechanical advantage of about 3:1 or 4:1 (by eyeball and based on memory). My wife says the change was one of the all-time best improvements on the boat. Plug the old holes with white epoxy and polish smooth. Before drilling new holes try lifting the seat to check for clearances. On our setup the shower seat cannot be lowered horizontal because the overall height is an inch or so higher.
Cricket, PH II in a 33
Not to burst Peggie's bubble but the Cricket won't work as advertised in the 33 as it mounts below the water line. It also doesn't fit well at all in the space available for it in the 33. The flush lever rubs against the side wall. Now here's the good news. Raritan is probably one of the best companies I've ever dealt with. When I explained my dissatisfaction with the Cricket, they said "No problem" and sent out a PH II immediately no charge. (They did expect the Cricket back.) I just finished bolting in the PH II Highboy and it makes a nice installation. Due to the angles of the floor and the fact that I wanted the unit mounted as far back as possible I had to fabricate a riser plate for it to sit on. This puts it at the accepted 17" or so seat height. Pictures have been taken and a Photo Forum article should be placed soon. Feel free to contact me if you want to know more. samlust@monmouth.com
Not to burst Peggie's bubble but the Cricket won't work as advertised in the 33 as it mounts below the water line. It also doesn't fit well at all in the space available for it in the 33. The flush lever rubs against the side wall. Now here's the good news. Raritan is probably one of the best companies I've ever dealt with. When I explained my dissatisfaction with the Cricket, they said "No problem" and sent out a PH II immediately no charge. (They did expect the Cricket back.) I just finished bolting in the PH II Highboy and it makes a nice installation. Due to the angles of the floor and the fact that I wanted the unit mounted as far back as possible I had to fabricate a riser plate for it to sit on. This puts it at the accepted 17" or so seat height. Pictures have been taken and a Photo Forum article should be placed soon. Feel free to contact me if you want to know more. samlust@monmouth.com
Sam, Most heads mount below the waterline
I can see see where the Cricket's telescoping flush lever could be a problem in a tight space when extended...but if the Cricket was below the waterline, so is your PH II (at least the bowl is)....any problems caused by the fact that the Cricket's pump is below the bowl could have been solved with a loop in the intake line. However-- The fact that Raritan didn't argue the point with you, but just replaced it with a PH II--for the same price!--is the most important thing. And now you see why I've always been partial to their products. In all the years we were distributors for every mfr, Raritan is the only one who'd do that. And btw...because the bowl on the PH II doesn't have a pump under it, it's lower relative to the waterline than the Cricket...so I'd recommend you install a vented loop in the intake between pump and bowl, 'cuz the only thing standing between you and an overflow is the dry/flush valve unless you're absolutely religious about keeping the seacock closed except when the head is actually in use...and few people are.
I can see see where the Cricket's telescoping flush lever could be a problem in a tight space when extended...but if the Cricket was below the waterline, so is your PH II (at least the bowl is)....any problems caused by the fact that the Cricket's pump is below the bowl could have been solved with a loop in the intake line. However-- The fact that Raritan didn't argue the point with you, but just replaced it with a PH II--for the same price!--is the most important thing. And now you see why I've always been partial to their products. In all the years we were distributors for every mfr, Raritan is the only one who'd do that. And btw...because the bowl on the PH II doesn't have a pump under it, it's lower relative to the waterline than the Cricket...so I'd recommend you install a vented loop in the intake between pump and bowl, 'cuz the only thing standing between you and an overflow is the dry/flush valve unless you're absolutely religious about keeping the seacock closed except when the head is actually in use...and few people are.
PH II too
My 79 H33 had a Raritan PH II installed when I bought it and it has given very good service. It fits the space in the H33 head very well. The previous owner did install a loop to get the intake water above the water line and as Peggy points out, that's important. Also, on my H33 the through hull for the head is insanely inaccessible, thus guaranteeing that it is seldom closed.
My 79 H33 had a Raritan PH II installed when I bought it and it has given very good service. It fits the space in the H33 head very well. The previous owner did install a loop to get the intake water above the water line and as Peggy points out, that's important. Also, on my H33 the through hull for the head is insanely inaccessible, thus guaranteeing that it is seldom closed.
PH II too
My 79 H33 had a Raritan PH II installed when I bought it and it has given very good service. It fits the space in the H33 head very well. The previous owner did install a loop to get the intake water above the water line and as Peggy points out, that's important. Also, on my H33 the through hull for the head is insanely inaccessible, thus guaranteeing that it is seldom closed.
My 79 H33 had a Raritan PH II installed when I bought it and it has given very good service. It fits the space in the H33 head very well. The previous owner did install a loop to get the intake water above the water line and as Peggy points out, that's important. Also, on my H33 the through hull for the head is insanely inaccessible, thus guaranteeing that it is seldom closed.
Setting record straight on Cricket
I suppose I erred on the side of brevity so I expand the discussion a little bit here. The advertising for the Cricket states that the pump ALWAYS pumps OUT more than it pumps IN, so the bowl always goes DRY. This seemed perfect to me because it would eliminate the possibility of my sister-in-law creating another "pottie disaster". Pull the handle and be done with it. The problem was, and this is stated in the paragraph I missed reading in the installation instructions, IF you mount the CRICKET, with it's "compensating circuit" below the water line with a vented loop between the pump and the bowl (as shown in the diagram) the bowl WILL NOT pump dry. To pump it dry you MUST turn the dry bowl lever, which unfortunately, due to the placement and configuration of the diaphram pump, requires you to kneel down, reach around the back of the base, find and turn the control. This essentialy forces you to appear to be praying to the bowl and was not something I cared for. A marine toilet is not a pleasant thing at best, and I just don't care for being forced to stick my face into the bowl to get it to flush dry. The Mickey Mouse extension kit helped but it still didn't work all that well. Should I have changed the installation? Placed the loop between the through-hull and pump? Tried half a dozen other things? Maybe. But the dry bowl selector was still uncomfortable. The impressive thing is that Raritan was so easy to deal with, exchanging the toilet without a problem.
I suppose I erred on the side of brevity so I expand the discussion a little bit here. The advertising for the Cricket states that the pump ALWAYS pumps OUT more than it pumps IN, so the bowl always goes DRY. This seemed perfect to me because it would eliminate the possibility of my sister-in-law creating another "pottie disaster". Pull the handle and be done with it. The problem was, and this is stated in the paragraph I missed reading in the installation instructions, IF you mount the CRICKET, with it's "compensating circuit" below the water line with a vented loop between the pump and the bowl (as shown in the diagram) the bowl WILL NOT pump dry. To pump it dry you MUST turn the dry bowl lever, which unfortunately, due to the placement and configuration of the diaphram pump, requires you to kneel down, reach around the back of the base, find and turn the control. This essentialy forces you to appear to be praying to the bowl and was not something I cared for. A marine toilet is not a pleasant thing at best, and I just don't care for being forced to stick my face into the bowl to get it to flush dry. The Mickey Mouse extension kit helped but it still didn't work all that well. Should I have changed the installation? Placed the loop between the through-hull and pump? Tried half a dozen other things? Maybe. But the dry bowl selector was still uncomfortable. The impressive thing is that Raritan was so easy to deal with, exchanging the toilet without a problem.
More PH II vs. Cricket
I'm assuming it's decided that Raritan is the maker to go with. One thing you should be aware of with the Cricket is that to repair or rebuild it you have to completely remove it, and turn it upside-down to remove the 13 or so screws that hold the pump chamber together. This does not sound like a fun thing to do under the best of circumstances, let alone on a bobbing boat out on the water. The PH II on the other hand, stays in place. You remove 4 screws and the pump assembly pops off. Simple.
I'm assuming it's decided that Raritan is the maker to go with. One thing you should be aware of with the Cricket is that to repair or rebuild it you have to completely remove it, and turn it upside-down to remove the 13 or so screws that hold the pump chamber together. This does not sound like a fun thing to do under the best of circumstances, let alone on a bobbing boat out on the water. The PH II on the other hand, stays in place. You remove 4 screws and the pump assembly pops off. Simple.
Sam, what you're overlooking about the Cricket is.
It has a diaphragm pump, as opposed to the usual piston/cylinder pump. There are no moving parts in a diaphragm...no seals, o-rings to wear and need regular replacement. So "rebuilding" is tantamount to replacing the entire pump assembly on any other head--in fact, the "repair kit" is a new diaphragm...everything but the pump housing. So the fact that it's necessary to unbolt it from the floor is a moot point--you'd have to unbolt ANY pump assembly to replace it. The Cricket's lack of need for the same kind of maintenance required to keep any piston/cylinder toilet working to specs is one of the main reasons I like it so much.
It has a diaphragm pump, as opposed to the usual piston/cylinder pump. There are no moving parts in a diaphragm...no seals, o-rings to wear and need regular replacement. So "rebuilding" is tantamount to replacing the entire pump assembly on any other head--in fact, the "repair kit" is a new diaphragm...everything but the pump housing. So the fact that it's necessary to unbolt it from the floor is a moot point--you'd have to unbolt ANY pump assembly to replace it. The Cricket's lack of need for the same kind of maintenance required to keep any piston/cylinder toilet working to specs is one of the main reasons I like it so much.
Well, actually Sam...
It's necessary to turn the dry/flush lever to dry to completely empty ANY toilet that's below the waterline....and if the location of the dry/flush lever was your main problem, you should have mentioned that to Raritan (or asked me)...'cuz either of us would have toild you that there's an "extension" available for it that allows the dry/flush lever to operated from standing position. IMHO, it should be shipped with the toilet as standard equipment...'cuz the location of the pump makes it impossible to put the dry/flush mechanism any higher...and there's no mention in the literature that there is any alternative to "praying" when you turn it, and you're certainly not likely to find out about it from anyone at WM, BOAT/US etc.
It's necessary to turn the dry/flush lever to dry to completely empty ANY toilet that's below the waterline....and if the location of the dry/flush lever was your main problem, you should have mentioned that to Raritan (or asked me)...'cuz either of us would have toild you that there's an "extension" available for it that allows the dry/flush lever to operated from standing position. IMHO, it should be shipped with the toilet as standard equipment...'cuz the location of the pump makes it impossible to put the dry/flush mechanism any higher...and there's no mention in the literature that there is any alternative to "praying" when you turn it, and you're certainly not likely to find out about it from anyone at WM, BOAT/US etc.
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