Hi folks, I need to bottom paint 23.5 and I'm going to do it here at home with the boat on the trailer. I need advice on best way to 'adjust or tip' the boat while it is on the trailer to paint the hull where it sits on the rails. What is the best way to do this? Thanks for your help. Lynnie
Painting 23.5 on trailer, how best to 'tip' to get where it sits on the rails
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Lynnie,
We just did our H240 a few weeks ago. I work in a vehicle maintenance garage that has portable support safety stands for vehicles on lifts. The stands have threaded adjustment rods at the top with 3"X3" rubber pads. I did one side at a time by placing 4 stands under the hull seam with blocks of wood to spread the load out, I put one at each lift location and the other two spaced in between. I cranked each stand up about 2 inches. I then placed floor jacks under the three posts that support the bunks and raised them enough to remove the mounting bolts and lowered the bunk away from the hull. I was surprised how little weight was on the support stands and thought at the time that this could be done with homemade stands made from lumber. You could jack the entire trailer and boat up, place some stands, and lower it down onto the stands. Hope this helps.
We just did our H240 a few weeks ago. I work in a vehicle maintenance garage that has portable support safety stands for vehicles on lifts. The stands have threaded adjustment rods at the top with 3"X3" rubber pads. I did one side at a time by placing 4 stands under the hull seam with blocks of wood to spread the load out, I put one at each lift location and the other two spaced in between. I cranked each stand up about 2 inches. I then placed floor jacks under the three posts that support the bunks and raised them enough to remove the mounting bolts and lowered the bunk away from the hull. I was surprised how little weight was on the support stands and thought at the time that this could be done with homemade stands made from lumber. You could jack the entire trailer and boat up, place some stands, and lower it down onto the stands. Hope this helps.
A few months ago, Rick Webb started a thread about this very same subject. I tried his method on my H26 and it worked pretty good. In Rick's method, you recover your boat from the water at the ramp and intensionally put it on the trailer off-center. You then paint the bottom except (of course) for the area on the bunks. You let the paint dry, relaunch, and retrieve back onto the trailer off-center in the other direction. The unpainted areas are now exposed. You paint, let dry and are ready to go. The main sacrifice is you don't get to paint the whole centerboard and centerboard trunk. BrianW
I used 4x4 landscape timbers to buttress the working side and lowered the bunk to paint the hidden surface.
This sounds great I have painted several bottoms and never thought of this simple solution. Now a stupid question i " can you tilt the boat to one side or do you run it up being off to one side??? How far off can you launch to the side and be safe? One would need a rather flat ramp area to remain stable. Sorry for the ignorance, but I want to do this. Thank you very much.
Earl Keim
Earl Keim
Check out my post titled "Slilding Hatch and Spring refit" for photos of how I did my 26.
Bilgewater
Bilgewater
I used the Winch
the boat was on the trailer already. I attached a line to the trailer and up to the winchput it in the water till it floated then climed aboard and craked the winch down pulled it out waited for the paint to dry then did the othereside
the boat was on the trailer already. I attached a line to the trailer and up to the winchput it in the water till it floated then climed aboard and craked the winch down pulled it out waited for the paint to dry then did the othereside
Thanks everyone for the ideas.
The 'launch and re-load off center' thing sounds like a great idea but I won't be able to do that because I'm here at home and no water nearby. However, I would like to look at more about that. Rick Webb, I'd like to find that thread you mentioned but searched unsuccessfully.
Bilgewater, I searched for the thread you mentioned too and I can't find it either. I used the advanced search feature using your username and no luck. I also searched by the title you listed and couldn't get it that way either. Got a lot of hits on 'hatch' though, but none were yours.
Maybe I'm just not using the search function correctly.
I'm not sure I can get the bolts loose on the trailer rail, however I may try that to see if I can support the boat and then drop the rail. They look pretty solid on there though and I've never had much luck with 'stuck' bolts.
What I would like to do is tip it up using the underside of the rub rail somehow. Has anyone ever tried anything like that? Or jack up the back end and then the front end somehow??
It's so frustrating being poor sailor trash that I can't afford to take the boat somewhere and pay someone to paint this.
Thanks again everyone, I appreciate the help and ideas more than you know.
Lynnie
The 'launch and re-load off center' thing sounds like a great idea but I won't be able to do that because I'm here at home and no water nearby. However, I would like to look at more about that. Rick Webb, I'd like to find that thread you mentioned but searched unsuccessfully.
Bilgewater, I searched for the thread you mentioned too and I can't find it either. I used the advanced search feature using your username and no luck. I also searched by the title you listed and couldn't get it that way either. Got a lot of hits on 'hatch' though, but none were yours.
Maybe I'm just not using the search function correctly.
I'm not sure I can get the bolts loose on the trailer rail, however I may try that to see if I can support the boat and then drop the rail. They look pretty solid on there though and I've never had much luck with 'stuck' bolts.
What I would like to do is tip it up using the underside of the rub rail somehow. Has anyone ever tried anything like that? Or jack up the back end and then the front end somehow??
It's so frustrating being poor sailor trash that I can't afford to take the boat somewhere and pay someone to paint this.
Thanks again everyone, I appreciate the help and ideas more than you know.
Lynnie
I painted my 23.5 this spring. The previous owner made a 5 foot long shallow v-notch cradle by bolting three 2 x 6's together. Since he moved up to a Beneteau First 285, he agreed to give me the home made cradle. I blocked the tires and put the cradle towards the front of the boat, placed a carpet remnant over the cradle, lowered the tongue jack and used a pretty stout floor jack to raise the cradle. I had to put bottle jacks under the back of the trailer as to block it and prevent it from tilting while jacking the front of the boat up. This lifted the boat off of the forward section of the bunks. I used a small diameter roller to apply the vc-17.
When I got as far as I could, I moved the cradle and floor jack to the back of the boat, raised the tongue of the trailer and jacked up the back of the boat up high enough to get to the rest of the obscured bunk area. This task can be done by one person but a fellow sailor offered to help so it took less than four hours to complete this task. If you are interested I can send you dimensions for the home made cradle and/or photos.l
When I got as far as I could, I moved the cradle and floor jack to the back of the boat, raised the tongue of the trailer and jacked up the back of the boat up high enough to get to the rest of the obscured bunk area. This task can be done by one person but a fellow sailor offered to help so it took less than four hours to complete this task. If you are interested I can send you dimensions for the home made cradle and/or photos.l
Hello Dave!
I would love to see more about the home made cradle. I'm trying to picture the v-notch cradle but not sure.
I understand lowering the tongue jack and cranking up the cradle, but what are bottle jacks? And I see you put them under the trailer, could I achieve the same thing by just blocking under the back of the trailer?
I have a regular sized floor jack that I planned to use if I could just figure out a way to do it. I don't know how much it will lift but my late husband used to lift a lot of stuff with it out there in the barn.
I have some friends who have offered to help paint, but I'm not sure how committed they were to that offer. Its fairly strenous work and all. So I expect I will be doing this myself and I'm comfortable with that. I planned to paint everything I could get to first and then lift it somehow to get to the spots under the rails. With our last boat (catalina 22) we just jacked it up, front then back, using a jack under the keel. Can't do that with this boat though.
Thanks again for the help! Hope everyone is having a nice day. We are enjoying rain here in south central Indiana today.
Lynnie
I would love to see more about the home made cradle. I'm trying to picture the v-notch cradle but not sure.
I understand lowering the tongue jack and cranking up the cradle, but what are bottle jacks? And I see you put them under the trailer, could I achieve the same thing by just blocking under the back of the trailer?
I have a regular sized floor jack that I planned to use if I could just figure out a way to do it. I don't know how much it will lift but my late husband used to lift a lot of stuff with it out there in the barn.
I have some friends who have offered to help paint, but I'm not sure how committed they were to that offer. Its fairly strenous work and all. So I expect I will be doing this myself and I'm comfortable with that. I planned to paint everything I could get to first and then lift it somehow to get to the spots under the rails. With our last boat (catalina 22) we just jacked it up, front then back, using a jack under the keel. Can't do that with this boat though.
Thanks again for the help! Hope everyone is having a nice day. We are enjoying rain here in south central Indiana today.
Lynnie
Lynnie,
I'm off to the lake to sail but will take some pics of the cradle and post them. To answer your question about using bottle jacks to block the back of the trailer. You can use anything to block the back of the trailer. In my case, all I had was a couple of old bottle jacks. Sometimes we learn to make due with what we have. I'll follow up with a post after I take the photos.
I'm off to the lake to sail but will take some pics of the cradle and post them. To answer your question about using bottle jacks to block the back of the trailer. You can use anything to block the back of the trailer. In my case, all I had was a couple of old bottle jacks. Sometimes we learn to make due with what we have. I'll follow up with a post after I take the photos.
Lynnie,
Here are the photos of the cradle. It is 4 feet long. Note that there are two segments of a 4 x 4 post bolted together. The shallow v-notch was created by diagonal cutting a 2 foot long 2 x 4. As you can tell, there are two of these and they are fixed to the 4 x4 's with counter sunk lag bolts. I hope these photos load and this helps.
Here are the photos of the cradle. It is 4 feet long. Note that there are two segments of a 4 x 4 post bolted together. The shallow v-notch was created by diagonal cutting a 2 foot long 2 x 4. As you can tell, there are two of these and they are fixed to the 4 x4 's with counter sunk lag bolts. I hope these photos load and this helps.
Here are pics of my setup. 2 2x6s with a 1/2 inch plywood filler, glued and screwed together. 4x4s for the supports. I did it all with an aumotive floor jack, and some made up supports of stacked 4x4s to support the boat & trailer while assembling the beams. I loosened the bunk support bolts, and then removed the top ones to let the bunks tilt out of the way for painting. Covered everything with plastic to keep the paint off the bunk carpet. It isn't pretty, and takes a little work, but you can do it safely and cheaply on your own. Good luck. Odd you couldn't find my original post. It is within five or six posts of yours in the small boat forum.
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Bilge & Dave L--
Thanks a grunch for helping out Lynnie....and as it turns out...me!
I've been working on my H22 for one and a half years now, and have been using a different method to raise off the trailer for dropping/reinstalling the swing keel. Your methods spark new ideas. PICTURES ARE WORTH A MILLION WORDS !!!
Lynnie--
My method is talked about in "need keel and rudder dimensions" in this forum... see if it has any value to you for other ideas...most of all...remember, this is FUN stuff !
--Charlie
Thanks a grunch for helping out Lynnie....and as it turns out...me!
I've been working on my H22 for one and a half years now, and have been using a different method to raise off the trailer for dropping/reinstalling the swing keel. Your methods spark new ideas. PICTURES ARE WORTH A MILLION WORDS !!!
Lynnie--
My method is talked about in "need keel and rudder dimensions" in this forum... see if it has any value to you for other ideas...most of all...remember, this is FUN stuff !
--Charlie
Okay! I agree that pictures are worth a thousand words. Dave, the photos loaded and they look great. I think I had misinterpreted how you were using your cradle. I was picturing it lengthwise but now that I see your pictures I think you are using it crosswise, which makes more sense now that I think about it. Whether lifting or supporting and dropping the rails, this thing looks great.
Bilgewater I love your setup and that paint job looks wonderful. (almost a shame to put that in the water.) But, I doubt I will be able to loosen the bolts anywhere on that trailer out there, so I don’t think I will be able to drop the rails. My husband used to heat bolts sometimes to get them off but I just don’t have his skills. I am going to try it though with a big crescent wrench.
SeaTR, I don't know about this painting being the 'fun stuff' for me but I will feel a lot of satisfaction when I get this done, and that is a very good thing for me. Fun for me is after I dump that it in the lake for the season. My husband and I boated for many years before we took up sailing. In fact, my husband took sailing lessons with me years ago just to humor me. All of his friends said that sailing was too much work and pointed out that all of those sailors were always having to work on their boats, etc, etc. However, he caught the sailing bug that summer and found our first sailboat before our lessons were even over. I kinda wanted to wait to buy but the price was right (because it needed a lot of work) so we bought it.
And he discovered why all those sailors were always working on their boats....because they wanted to and found it 'fun'.
Thanks everyone for your ideas and help.
Lynnie
Bilgewater I love your setup and that paint job looks wonderful. (almost a shame to put that in the water.) But, I doubt I will be able to loosen the bolts anywhere on that trailer out there, so I don’t think I will be able to drop the rails. My husband used to heat bolts sometimes to get them off but I just don’t have his skills. I am going to try it though with a big crescent wrench.
SeaTR, I don't know about this painting being the 'fun stuff' for me but I will feel a lot of satisfaction when I get this done, and that is a very good thing for me. Fun for me is after I dump that it in the lake for the season. My husband and I boated for many years before we took up sailing. In fact, my husband took sailing lessons with me years ago just to humor me. All of his friends said that sailing was too much work and pointed out that all of those sailors were always having to work on their boats, etc, etc. However, he caught the sailing bug that summer and found our first sailboat before our lessons were even over. I kinda wanted to wait to buy but the price was right (because it needed a lot of work) so we bought it.
And he discovered why all those sailors were always working on their boats....because they wanted to and found it 'fun'.
Thanks everyone for your ideas and help.
Lynnie
Lynnie;
My bolts on the bunks were not difficult to remove, only self-locking nuts on them. But I used a 6 point deep socket on the nut, and a box end wrench on the head of the bolt. I'd stay away from a crescent if possible because of the chance of slipping and rounding off the nuts. If you have the proper tools, give it a try. It might be easier than you think.
One thing I didn't point out is on the aft beam, I cut three 4 foot pieces of 1/2 inch playwood 6 inches wide, slathered them with construction adhesive, and then set the boat down on them. I wedged some 2x and 4x pieces to make them conform to the hull shape, and then drove screws up through the plywood to hold it together while the glue set. That made a cradle to keep the boat from tipping.
The paint job is 2 coats of Pettit red Hydrocoat over a primer base. I followed this with 2 coats of blue Hydrocoat. Hydrocoat is an ablative paint, meaning it will gradually wear away with use, thus exposiing fresh toxins to critter trying to make a home on the bottom. This way I can see how the paint holds up over the summer.
Best of luck to you!
Bilge
My bolts on the bunks were not difficult to remove, only self-locking nuts on them. But I used a 6 point deep socket on the nut, and a box end wrench on the head of the bolt. I'd stay away from a crescent if possible because of the chance of slipping and rounding off the nuts. If you have the proper tools, give it a try. It might be easier than you think.
One thing I didn't point out is on the aft beam, I cut three 4 foot pieces of 1/2 inch playwood 6 inches wide, slathered them with construction adhesive, and then set the boat down on them. I wedged some 2x and 4x pieces to make them conform to the hull shape, and then drove screws up through the plywood to hold it together while the glue set. That made a cradle to keep the boat from tipping.
The paint job is 2 coats of Pettit red Hydrocoat over a primer base. I followed this with 2 coats of blue Hydrocoat. Hydrocoat is an ablative paint, meaning it will gradually wear away with use, thus exposiing fresh toxins to critter trying to make a home on the bottom. This way I can see how the paint holds up over the summer.
Best of luck to you!
Bilge
Thanks Bilge! These are the kinds of details that are so helpful to me. As usual, the terminology is the key. I'm thinking of the difference between cresent and box wrenches. I think a box wrench is the completely round or closed end wrench. I have those. I have sockets too, not sure about 6 inch but probably have that.
Maybe I will get those together and see if I can get anything loose out there.)
Thanks again!
Lynnie
Maybe I will get those together and see if I can get anything loose out there.
)Thanks again!
Lynnie
Lynnie:
Use a six point socket, not a six inch socket. A six point socket has six sides or flats to it, just like the head of a bolt. It is the strongest and best socket to use whenever possible. A 12 point socket has twice as many flats. It is used when space is critical, and you can't get a full throw with the socket handle. But it is weaker, and more prone to rounding off the corners of the nut or bolt if you apply alot of pressure.
I noticed on some pictures of other trailers that some bunks are supported by square tubing into brackets welded to the frame. Mine are square, but just bolted through the frame. If yours have brackets, the swing-out-of-the-way thing won't work. You would have to remove the bunks completely by lifting them out of the brackets.
Good Luck!
Bilge
Use a six point socket, not a six inch socket. A six point socket has six sides or flats to it, just like the head of a bolt. It is the strongest and best socket to use whenever possible. A 12 point socket has twice as many flats. It is used when space is critical, and you can't get a full throw with the socket handle. But it is weaker, and more prone to rounding off the corners of the nut or bolt if you apply alot of pressure.
I noticed on some pictures of other trailers that some bunks are supported by square tubing into brackets welded to the frame. Mine are square, but just bolted through the frame. If yours have brackets, the swing-out-of-the-way thing won't work. You would have to remove the bunks completely by lifting them out of the brackets.
Good Luck!
Bilge
I did my H26 last year on the trailer.
I bought the shortest boat stands from the evil blue empire, jacked up one side of the frame of the trailer with two hydraulic jacks, set the stands in (one aft and one just ahead of the keel on that high side, then lowered the jacks. It raised the boat 5 inches off the bunk board - plenty of room to get bottom paint on.
The only area I couldn't get was the centerboard that was up inside the trunk area.
Oh yeah, then did the other side.
I bought the shortest boat stands from the evil blue empire, jacked up one side of the frame of the trailer with two hydraulic jacks, set the stands in (one aft and one just ahead of the keel on that high side, then lowered the jacks. It raised the boat 5 inches off the bunk board - plenty of room to get bottom paint on.
The only area I couldn't get was the centerboard that was up inside the trunk area.
Oh yeah, then did the other side.
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