Painted Prop Shaft and Anodes in Fresh Water

Nov 19, 2023
28
Hunter 32 Vision Watauga Lake, TN
Hi. I'm preparing to move a newly acquired boat from salt water to fresh. PO was in the process of painting bottom before I bought the boat. The prop shaft has a fresh coat of ablating bottom paint. That seems wrong to me. Boat is on the hard and I've got several projects to complete before splash time. Among them: replace two shaft zincs with a magnesium shaft anode. This raises a few questions:
  1. Should I strip the paint from shaft? Does galvanic isolation from the prop and shaft reduce the protection?
  2. Should I strip the newly painted prop and polish to bare metal? Yard rumors suggest this was painted with sprayed-on zinc paint. (Sadly, PO is deceased, so I can't confirm).
thnx!
 

Attachments

Jan 11, 2014
12,703
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
First, in freshwater you will need to use magnesium, not zinc anodes. If the boat is gaining on its own bottom from saltwater to freshwater, then use aluminum until the next time the boat is hauled or the anodes need replacing.

The paint on the shaft and prop are fine. After a few hours of motoring it will be gone.

Do not paint the anodes, if they are painted they will be insulated from the water and not work.

 
Jan 4, 2006
7,150
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Should I strip the newly painted prop and polish to bare metal?
The water will make short work of stripping all of the ablative off the shaft and prop. The only prep work here is to be absolutely positive that the spot(s) where the anode(s) are attached are 100% pristine for good electrical conductivity.
 
  • Like
Likes: Tally Ho

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,750
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
OK..
Lets agree to talk in common terms.
A Zinc is a specific piece of metal.
An Anode is the metal piece, in a specific shape that we attach to a part of the boat.

Should I strip the paint from shaft?
  • In order for the anode (be it zinc or magnesium) to work on the shaft in the water beneath the boat, you need the anode to be connected to the bare metal of the shaft.
  • You can leave the rest of the shaft bare or you can paint it. No matter. But the shaft under the anode must to be uncluttered... metal to metal.
  • Painting the prop is a personal choice. The turbulence (cavitation) of the prop rotating through the water will degrade the paint job as the bond between paint and metal degrades.
Does galvanic isolation from the prop and shaft reduce the protection?

No...

Galvanic isolation refers to the separation of an electrical circuit to eliminate stray currents. A system that possess different ground potentials are blocked. On boats it most often regards currents induced by the AC power. The boat and the shore systems can possess different grounds or the grounds are crossed (think white and green wires miss wired). A Galvanic isolator is used to assure that stray currents are blocked. Helps to stop that electrical tingle for swimmers in the water near the boat.

You want to install a Galvanic Isolator on your boat. It will help reduce the chance of damage.

Should I strip the newly painted prop and polish to bare metal?
You can but I would not go to the extra work. The paint will eventually flake off as you run the boat. The prop is a fixed blade (I assume). If it is a foldable blade then paint may inhibit the prop from folding.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,703
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
No...

Galvanic isolation refers to the separation of an electrical circuit to eliminate stray currents. A system that possess different ground potentials are blocked. On boats it most often regards currents induced by the AC power. The boat and the shore systems can possess different grounds or the grounds are crossed (think white and green wires miss wired). A Galvanic isolator is used to assure that stray currents are blocked. Helps to stop that electrical tingle for swimmers in the water near the boat.
This is rather confusing and mostly incorrect.

As simply and accurately as I can explain, the anode is there to protect dissimilar metals from eroding. All metals have an electrical potential, i.e., the ability give up or take in electrons. When 2 metals are placed in a conductive solution and are then connected to each other a current will develop and one metal will degrade. The sacrificial anodes on props and shafts is there to protect the desirable metals from interacting by giving up the anode's electrons and ions. The prop shaft is stainless steel and the prop bronze, they are obviously connected to each other. Out of the water the electrical circuit has not been completed, in water, the circuit is completed and the more reactive metal will give up electrons and ions. Zinc, Aluminum, and Magnesium are the most reactive metals, when placed on the prop shaft and prop these anodes will sacrifice themselves to the circuit thereby protecting the important metals. It is important to note that the circuit that forms is a DC circuit.

A similar circuit can form between 2 or more boats that are plugged into shore power. Because of the way AC circuits are wired the green ground wire from each AC circuit will be connected at the shore panel. This allows a DC current to flow from one boat through the water into another boat's AC ground and back out to the other boat through the AC ground wire. There are 3 ways to block this circuit, don't plug in, use an isolation transformer (best) or a galvanic isolator. This is not stray current.

It is important to note that the most destructive current is DC, not AC. Because the positive and negative switch back and forth AC does not present a great threat for corrosion, the ions that are removed on one cycle are put back on the next cycle. DC circuits are more destructive because the ions are removed and not put back.

Stray current generally refers some leakage in a boat's circuits, either AC or DC. They are usually due to a fault in the wiring which allows some current to leak, i.e, find a way back to its source that is not contained in the wiring. A classic example is a poor electrical connection in the bilge that provides an alternate path back to the battery.

One of the best summaries that tries to sort out all this confusion is Stan Honey's classic article which has been recent updated. Stan is a sailor, an outstanding offshore navigator, an electrical engineer and the guy who figured out how to put the football scrimmage lines on TV.


 
  • Helpful
Likes: rgranger
Jan 7, 2011
5,446
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
I can’t speak to the galvanic isolator issue as I dont have one, but in fresh water, the anode should be magnesium (or aluminum in a pinch). Take one of the shaft anodes off and verify that the shaft isn’t painted underneath. You need good metal-to-metal contact between the anode and the shaft.

The paint won’t hurt anything. Not sure it will stay on too long, but it won’t up hurt the shaft or prop.

You don’t mention the type of prop you have…if it has a cone anode, don’t forget to replace it to magnesium.

Greg
 
Nov 19, 2023
28
Hunter 32 Vision Watauga Lake, TN
The only prep work here is to be absolutely positive that the spot(s) where the anode(s) are attached are 100% pristine for good electrical conductivity.
This, and the subsequent concurrence from @jassailem are what I was after.

@dlochner I appreciate your response, which cleared up my understanding of this.

Sorry to all for creating confusion by using the accurate, but misleading term 'galvanic isolation'. I should have asked do a prop and shaft that are electrically isolated from the sacrificial anode suffer from reduced protection? To which the answer turns out to be YES, absolutely. There must be conductivity between the sacrificial anode and the metal elements it's intended to protect. In retrospect, this makes sense.

While I have a really good understanding of electrical principals, I did not have a clear understanding that the chemical/metallurgical changes happening in water are accelerated by minute (or large, even!) DC currents passing through them. I guess I thought it was purely chemical, but hadn't thought it through.

My extensive experience with electronics and electricity has been limited to instances not floating in a conductive bath ie. water (salted, fresh or in between). Generally, when I have had concerns about electrical isolation outside of boating, I've applied an isolation transformer, an opto-isolator or (please, please forgive me....) a ground lift. Don't do that last one in boating, only in audio engineering and only as a last resort ;) Of course, none of that is applicable to this discussion.

Thnx all.
 
  • Like
Likes: jssailem
Nov 19, 2023
28
Hunter 32 Vision Watauga Lake, TN
Last question on this topic: The MHT article on best practices for anode installation points out the need to isolate the screws that hold the anode in place. Makes sense.

RC recommends Tef-Gel for that... but I already ordered Lanocote for my anti-seize needs. Lanocote is based on an organic animal fat (from Lanolin) so I wonder about it's conductive qualities. I'll be using magnesium anodes (twice the price of zinc) so, no point in giving it more metal to protect - in the form of two SS screws that hold it in place on the shaft.

Am I overthinking this? Just buy the Tef-Gel too? And, and.....
$28 worth of Tef-Gel can protect several $28 magnesium anodes.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,703
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
$30 worth of Tea-Gel will last you a lifetime, unless you drop the canister overboard. Don't ask, you know the answer. Lanocote works, Ted-gel works better.

The place it is important to use the tef-gel is on the prop anode. If you don't use it the anode will erode more quickly around the screws than elsewhere which can cause the loss of the anode.

Sorry to say, you may have paid too much for the anodes, next time use Boatzincs.com
 
Nov 19, 2023
28
Hunter 32 Vision Watauga Lake, TN
Great. Haven't ordered the anode yet, so thanks for the link! Gotta go back to the yard to measure the shaft first.
There's no prop anode. It's just a really basic two blade prop.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
This is rather confusing and mostly incorrect.

As simply and accurately as I can explain, the anode is there to protect dissimilar metals from eroding. All metals have an electrical potential, i.e., the ability give up or take in electrons. When 2 metals are placed in a conductive solution and are then connected to each other a current will develop and one metal will degrade. The sacrificial anodes on props and shafts is there to protect the desirable metals from interacting by giving up the anode's electrons and ions. The prop shaft is stainless steel and the prop bronze, they are obviously connected to each other. Out of the water the electrical circuit has not been completed, in water, the circuit is completed and the more reactive metal will give up electrons and ions. Zinc, Aluminum, and Magnesium are the most reactive metals, when placed on the prop shaft and prop these anodes will sacrifice themselves to the circuit thereby protecting the important metals. It is important to note that the circuit that forms is a DC circuit.

A similar circuit can form between 2 or more boats that are plugged into shore power. Because of the way AC circuits are wired the green ground wire from each AC circuit will be connected at the shore panel. This allows a DC current to flow from one boat through the water into another boat's AC ground and back out to the other boat through the AC ground wire. There are 3 ways to block this circuit, don't plug in, use an isolation transformer (best) or a galvanic isolator. This is not stray current.

It is important to note that the most destructive current is DC, not AC. Because the positive and negative switch back and forth AC does not present a great threat for corrosion, the ions that are removed on one cycle are put back on the next cycle. DC circuits are more destructive because the ions are removed and not put back.

Stray current generally refers some leakage in a boat's circuits, either AC or DC. They are usually due to a fault in the wiring which allows some current to leak, i.e, find a way back to its source that is not contained in the wiring. A classic example is a poor electrical connection in the bilge that provides an alternate path back to the battery.

One of the best summaries that tries to sort out all this confusion is Stan Honey's classic article which has been recent updated. Stan is a sailor, an outstanding offshore navigator, an electrical engineer and the guy who figured out how to put the football scrimmage lines on TV.


:beer::clap:
 
Jan 7, 2011
5,446
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Last question on this topic: The MHT article on best practices for anode installation points out the need to isolate the screws that hold the anode in place. Makes sense.

RC recommends Tef-Gel for that... but I already ordered Lanocote for my anti-seize needs. Lanocote is based on an organic animal fat (from Lanolin) so I wonder about it's conductive qualities. I'll be using magnesium anodes (twice the price of zinc) so, no point in giving it more metal to protect - in the form of two SS screws that hold it in place on the shaft.

Am I overthinking this? Just buy the Tef-Gel too? And, and.....
$28 worth of Tef-Gel can protect several $28 magnesium anodes.
I have never used anything on my anodes (magnesium) in fresh water.

I haul out every year here in the Midwest. So I get a chance to inspect and replace my anodes every 6 months Or so. I have 2 on my shaft at all times, and replace 1 each year.

I may put some nail polish on my new Max Prop zinc as apparently the holes are close to the edge and it can erode through pretty quickly…but I have not had that happen on the shaft anodes.

Greg
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,703
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I may put some nail polish on my new Max Prop zinc as apparently the holes are close to the edge and it can erode through pretty quickly…but I have not had that happen on the shaft anodes.
This is what happens if you don't use ten-gel on the threads. The anode decays from the screws inward, then the metal falls out leaving just the retaining ring. On a shaft anode the screws do not touch the shaft, so it is not an issue.

IMG_0541.png
 
Jan 7, 2011
5,446
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
This is what happens if you don't use ten-gel on the threads. The anode decays from the screws inward, then the metal falls out leaving just the retaining ring. On a shaft anode the screws do not touch the shaft, so it is not an issue.

View attachment 222030
Thanks for that insight Dave.

That looks gnarly.

Greg