Paint options

[jbergman888]

Peter,

beautiful work! I'm not sure I'm up to learning to spray paint and buying all the equipment.
I'll be working at a haulout boatyard at $80/ per day.........

Joseph "Bruce" Bergman
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: peter@...
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 16:07:50 +0000
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Paint options
Ditto on the Imron ... it's great stuff, but pretty nasty and toxic when sprayed. I modified a full face respirator to draw outside air, using a sump pump hose kit. It worked pretty well, but a positive airflow respirator is the best answer.

http://tinyurl.com/2c243dh

An HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure) gun keeps the amount of fog down, too, and is more economical on paint.

Spraying gives really good results. That said, I haven't done the roll and tip thing yet.

http://tinyurl.com/36voynt

Good Old Boat Magazine's latest issue has a good article on rolling and tipping paint. An interesting point made was that excess paint, kept overnight in the fridge, required no tipping.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[SVFlyAway]

If you are in a yard check with them to see if they allow spraying. Mine
doesn't even if I erected a full tent.

 

[jbergman888]

I guess if I can find those shoes I'll be all right......Joseph "Bruce" Bergman
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: philgalbiati@...
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 17:21:39 +0000
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Paint options

I saw an article in one of the mags which reviewed a pair of shoes that fastened with velcro. They don't require ANY brain cells to tie them, and when used in conjunction with a 2-part paint sprayed with no respirator inside a closed garage, you don't notice any brush strokes and you forget that you don't have a girlfriend. I forget whether it was in Practical Sailor or High Times.....

--p

 

[jbergman888]

good idea, I forgot to check that one....Joseph "Bruce" Bergman
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: svflyaway@...
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:50:46 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Paint options
If you are in a yard check with them to see if they allow spraying. Mine
doesn't even if I erected a full tent.

 

[tim_klynn]

Some of the 2 part paints have isocyanurates in them, which as someone mentioned is known to the State of California to be bad.The msds for most of the 2 part stuff I use sounds more gloomy than most one part stuff. I wouldn't use 2k's w/o positive pressure respirator.

I've also read that breathing the dust while sanding epoxy (especially if not fully cured) can also create an allergic reaction.

Something I have been messing around with is coating wood w/epoxy and then using an automotive clearcoat for a durable top coat and uv protection. I did a test block on some brazilian cherry, then set it out on a boulder in my yard. I only did 5 sides (left the bottom uncoated). After a year in the blistering sun, rain and snow, the finish finally started lifting on the end grain. The after the second year the finish was still tight on the face, but further lifted on the end grain and edges. I also did a base block w/the same wood and finish technique for a foredeck light/steaming light. It's been out in the weather for 2 years now and still looks new. I coated all sides of the foredeck light block, so no water gets into the wood (plus it doesn't lay under snow for weeks at a time in the winter).

I just did the woodwork on a Santana 20 that is going to sit out all winter. We'll see how that holds up. The best part of finishing the woodwork this way is that you can do all the epoxy coating in a day and all the clearcoats in about an hour. There is a lot of (easy) sanding of the fresh epoxy, but pretty much none on the clearcoat. The clearcoat dries fast, which helps to avoid bugs and dust in the finish. The finish has a lot of depth accentuates the richness of the wood's character.

I don't think this treatment would work on high wear areas. I use varnish on the interior cabin sole plates on the Vega and oil on the teak cleats. I did the tiller handle of the S20 in the epoxy/clearcoat as well as the companionway sides and hatch slides.

From what I've read on shellac, it is an excellent barrier to water vapor, but it is not waterproof (which is why the varnish topcoat is a great idea). I've used shellac under lacquers as a sanding sealer with great success. I don't think it is compatible with polyurethanes.

Wasn't it a shellac finish (with only a wax topcoat) that would end up with a white ring forming under your glass as it sat on your grandma's table without a coaster under it?

 

[dougpol1]

Tim I know what you are talking about with the white ring on the table.
You never set a glass on a shellac table. I have had some shellac on
wood setting out and it was peeling before the summer was over. It has
to have something to protect it. The main reason I like using it under
varnish is you can sand or scrape the varnish off of it and then just
wash the shellac off with alcohol and there is no removal of wood down
in the grain. I have also used epoxy and it lasts well but there comes
a time when it has to be taken off and you wind up removing wood with
it. One of my boats that I bought when she was quite old had to have the
bull-works cap replaced because it had been sanded down until it was
thin over the years.
I am very interested in your automotive clear coat, do you have a
brand name I would be interested to try some. Today car finishes last
an unbelievably long time out in the elements so you may well have
something there.
To pass on another piece of information I made all the hardware for
my Elver from locust wood and some blocks. They hold up well with no
finish at all. The good news is you can generally get it free if you go
cut down the tree and saw it up. The farmers are usually glad to get
rid of them. I have been gathering some of it to build a skiff out of.
It's a little heavy but will last a couple hundred years if you use
trunnels to put it together. Doug

 

[jbergman888]

Thank you all for your input, I'm digesting it all, brain cells working overtime since I haven't found those velcro shoes yet........Joseph "Bruce" Bergman
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: dougpol1@...
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 18:55:53 -0400
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Paint options
Tim I know what you are talking about with the white ring on the table.
You never set a glass on a shellac table. I have had some shellac on
wood setting out and it was peeling before the summer was over. It has
to have something to protect it. The main reason I like using it under
varnish is you can sand or scrape the varnish off of it and then just
wash the shellac off with alcohol and there is no removal of wood down
in the grain. I have also used epoxy and it lasts well but there comes
a time when it has to be taken off and you wind up removing wood with
it. One of my boats that I bought when she was quite old had to have the
bull-works cap replaced because it had been sanded down until it was
thin over the years.
I am very interested in your automotive clear coat, do you have a
brand name I would be interested to try some. Today car finishes last
an unbelievably long time out in the elements so you may well have
something there.
To pass on another piece of information I made all the hardware for
my Elver from locust wood and some blocks. They hold up well with no
finish at all. The good news is you can generally get it free if you go
cut down the tree and saw it up. The farmers are usually glad to get
rid of them. I have been gathering some of it to build a skiff out of.
It's a little heavy but will last a couple hundred years if you use
trunnels to put it together. Doug

 

[trevy_kins]

Just curious - Ric -- where did you find wood core in your Vega hull?
I wasn't aware of any wood core in the hull (gulp!). Thx Trevor V 2915



________________________________

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ric
Sent: November 2, 2010 11:52 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Paint options





Bruce,
The progress is slow but steady. The new windows are in and I'm
installing the new intake and discharge thru-hulls, and valves, for the
head this weekend. Of course the holes weren't the right size and I had
to drill the holes larger to fit the new thru-hulls. The intake was
easy, but the discharge is in an area that has a wood core so I had to
remove the core back a half inch or so, fill it in with thickened epoxy
and then drill to the right size. And of course no one makes a hole saw
the right size to match the thru-hull. I had to get creative and first
drill the hole with a 1 3/4 inch hole saw, then wrap and tape a piece of
80 grit sandpaper to the outside of the hole saw to make the hole just a
little bit bigger. Once the new thru-hulls are in place, I'll install
the new bulkheads and all the new woodwork for the v-berth. I'm keeping
the pictures updated on my website if you want to check it out.
www.ric-maxfield.net

The brightsides is a linear polyurethane paint also, just one part
instead of two. I'll have to find the article, but I recall it saying
that at 5 years it was still looking great. According to Interlux's
material, the performance is almost as good as the two part and actually
excelled in a couple areas over the two part. I'm not sure how it really
stacks up against other brands as different article writers seem to have
their favorites. I just read an article where a guy rolled on the two
part AwlGrip and swore it was easy and looked sprayed on, however, being
two part he needed a helper and had to move quickly because of the quick
drying time.

I've got a 4 day weekend off from Nov 14 to 17. I've got something going
on Thursday where I have to be here but could drive down one of the
other days if you're going to be around. I'd love to see your boat.
Shoot me an email and let me know.

Ric
s/v Blue Max
# 2692

 

[n6ric]

Trevor,
I wasn't either, but there were 3 distinct layers where the head discharge thru-hull is located. Now, it's possible that that center core was not wood and was roving, but I didn't see that type of separation on the hole for the intake thru-hull. In any event, the thickened epoxy adhesive will be much stronger and seal things up. There are pictures of the hole on my website, but you probably can't make them large enough to really tell.
Ric
s/v Blue Max
#2692

 

[tim_klynn]

That's a good point about being able to strip the shellac and not wear down the wood. The first coat of epoxy is thinned down to penetrate the wood fibers and would require a lot of wood removal to get it off. I'm hoping that if I keep up the clearcoat, I won't have to sand off the epoxy.

I don't think the epoxy clearcoat method would work for anything that has a lot of nooks and crannies. The epoxy has to be sanded to get a smooth finish. From my test piece results, I also wouldn't use it on anything that I couldn't coat all the sides. I also have reservations about the epoxy/clearcoat being flexible enough to span any wood joints that are not glued. For things like drop boards, companionway slides, tiller handles etc it works fine. I have also been experimenting with it under house paints on place with peeling problems like windowsills.

I would like to do my cockpit storage locker lids w/the epoxy/clearcoat as the teak I have now keeps splitting (the Colorado cycle of afternoon thunderstorms followed by intense sun and low humidity wreaks havoc on exposed, oiled wood). Unfortunately, the lake level drops close to 100' over the summer and the hike to the boat is across fine dry sand and silt that would scratch up the locker lids if coated with a clearcoat. Maybe the shellac/varnish would be a better choice here. This dirty environment (some days there is a fine coating of red sandy silt on the boat when I get there) is one of the reasons I will someday use a topsides paint that can be buffed out and/or repaired.

The clearcoat I have been using is Nason (made by DuPont) SelectClear 497-00 or 498-00 overall clearcoat w/ the 483-78 ClearCoat Activator. The Nason products aren't as expensive as some of the other clear coats, but spray out fine for me.

 

[wemccourt]

________________________________
From: Tim Klynn tim_klynn@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 10:33:51 AM
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Paint options


That's a good point about being able to strip the shellac and not wear down the
wood. The first coat of epoxy is thinned down to penetrate the wood fibers and
would require a lot of wood removal to get it off. I'm hoping that if I keep up
the clearcoat, I won't have to sand off the epoxy. I don't think the epoxy clearcoat method would work for anything that has a lot
of nooks and crannies. The epoxy has to be sanded to get a smooth finish. From
my test piece results, I also wouldn't use it on anything that I couldn't coat
all the sides. I also have reservations about the epoxy/clearcoat being
flexible enough to span any wood joints that are not glued. For things like drop
boards, companionway slides, tiller handles etc it works fine. I have also been
experimenting with it under house paints on place with peeling problems like
windowsills.

I would like to do my cockpit storage locker lids w/the epoxy/clearcoat as the
teak I have now keeps splitting (the Colorado cycle of afternoon thunderstorms
followed by intense sun and low humidity wreaks havoc on exposed, oiled wood).
Unfortunately, the lake level drops close to 100' over the summer and the hike
to the boat is across fine dry sand and silt that would scratch up the locker
lids if coated with a clearcoat. Maybe the shellac/varnish would be a better
choice here. This dirty environment (some days there is a fine coating of red
sandy silt on the boat when I get there) is one of the reasons I will someday
use a topsides paint that can be buffed out and/or repaired. The clearcoat I have been using is Nason (made by DuPont) SelectClear 497-00 or
498-00 overall clearcoat w/ the 483-78 ClearCoat Activator. The Nason products
aren't as expensive as some of the other clear coats, but spray out fine for me.