Paint options

n6ric · Nov 2, 2010

Bruce,
I haven't painted my whole hull yet, but it is on the list. I painted a small section of the bow before installing the new bow roller. I used the one part Interlux Brightsides paint. I'm a little further inland than you (Riverside) and found it difficult to get it to flow when it was too warm. However, my last coat was put on first thing in the morning when it was still cool out and it flowed beautifully with no brush or roller marks. There are several good books and articles out there on doing the roll and tip method where you roll the paint on and you take a dry badger hair brush and very lightly drag it across the newly rolled surface. That removes the roller/brush marks and the paint tightens as it dries and gives a real nice finish. You can also spray Brightsides without the same worries as the 2 part LPUs, but if you take your time with the roll and tip, you probably won't need to. The one part won't last quite as long as the two part, but I've read a lot of very positive articles on its use. I hope that helps. Also, I'm close enough to you we ought to get together for coffee.

Ric
s/v Blue Max
# 2692

frankdeba27 · Nov 2, 2010

Dear Bruce,

I used the two part Interlux Perfection on Carpe Diem. I think it's a polyurethane. I think the color was snow white. I did all the prep and had a friend, who worked in a body shop, do the spraying. He used a respirator but not one with positive airflow.
Owing to the brain damage we both received we are very pleased with the results and would do it again. Our wives would like us to use positive airflow respirators from now on.

Thank you,
Frank DeBaggis
Vega 2141

n6ric · Nov 2, 2010

Bruce,
The progress is slow but steady. The new windows are in and I'm installing the new intake and discharge thru-hulls, and valves, for the head this weekend. Of course the holes weren't the right size and I had to drill the holes larger to fit the new thru-hulls. The intake was easy, but the discharge is in an area that has a wood core so I had to remove the core back a half inch or so, fill it in with thickened epoxy and then drill to the right size. And of course no one makes a hole saw the right size to match the thru-hull. I had to get creative and first drill the hole with a 1 3/4 inch hole saw, then wrap and tape a piece of 80 grit sandpaper to the outside of the hole saw to make the hole just a little bit bigger. Once the new thru-hulls are in place, I'll install the new bulkheads and all the new woodwork for the v-berth. I'm keeping the pictures updated on my website if you want to check it out. www.ric-maxfield.net

The brightsides is a linear polyurethane paint also, just one part instead of two. I'll have to find the article, but I recall it saying that at 5 years it was still looking great. According to Interlux's material, the performance is almost as good as the two part and actually excelled in a couple areas over the two part. I'm not sure how it really stacks up against other brands as different article writers seem to have their favorites. I just read an article where a guy rolled on the two part AwlGrip and swore it was easy and looked sprayed on, however, being two part he needed a helper and had to move quickly because of the quick drying time.

I've got a 4 day weekend off from Nov 14 to 17. I've got something going on Thursday where I have to be here but could drive down one of the other days if you're going to be around. I'd love to see your boat. Shoot me an email and let me know.

Ric
s/v Blue Max
# 2692

frankdeba27 · Nov 2, 2010

Dear Bruce,

I would look into a positive airflow respirator. Our boat turned out as good as if I'd had it professionally Awlgripped and was very much worth spraying.

The humidity was fairly high. Massachusetts is steamy in the summertime. I'm sure the relative humidity was between 65-70 %. I remember looking at the weather and I gave up on spraying under perfect conditions. I decided that if I wanted to get this done in my lifetime I needed to spray at 65-70 % relative humidity. Temperatures were likely 75-82 degrees.

The key to a good job is to keep a very wet edge and and expand the wet edge over the boat. You run the risk of sags in the paint. We had no sags on the topsides, but we had one or maybe two on the cabin top which I wet sanded and buffed out. You can buy thinners that evaporate at different rates. The faster the evaporation the fewer sags. The slower the evaporation the more the paint flows and flattens out. I have since figured out how to spray paint pretty well and would paint my boat myself the next time. My suggestion is, to spray all that you can and learn all you can up until the final coat. If you feel like you can keep a wet edge, go for it with the final coat. If not, and you know anyone who paints automobiles, hire them to spray the final coat. But by all means, spraying is light years ahead of brushing.

Another important tip is to use an air dryer on the compressor.

Thank you,
Frank DeBaggis
Vega 2141, Carpe Diem

pjacobs55 · Nov 3, 2010

I painted a Laser 2 years ago. Used 2 part interlux on the hull and Brightsides on the deck. (Couldn't use 2 part on the deck as it is incompatible with even a trace of alkyd enamel paint and the deck had once been painted and I couldn't get it out from the nonskid). I rolled and tipped, pretty easy.

Both jobs came out well but after two seasons it is obvious that the 2 part is much tougher than the 1 part. 2 part is finicky as can be - follow the directions religiously - but may be worth the effort.

One alternative worth considering is to do all the prep for the hull but let a shop spray the paint.Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

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From: Ric
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 9:19 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Paint options
Bruce,
I haven't painted my whole hull yet, but it is on the list. I painted a small section of the bow before installing the new bow roller. I used the one part Interlux Brightsides paint. I'm a little further inland than you (Riverside) and found it difficult to get it to flow when it was too warm. However, my last coat was put on first thing in the morning when it was still cool out and it flowed beautifully with no brush or roller marks. There are several good books and articles out there on doing the roll and tip method where you roll the paint on and you take a dry badger hair brush and very lightly drag it across the newly rolled surface. That removes the roller/brush marks and the paint tightens as it dries and gives a real nice finish. You can also spray Brightsides without the same worries as the 2 part LPUs, but if you take your time with the roll and tip, you probably won't need to. The one part won't last quite as long as the two part, but I've read a lot of very positive articles on its use. I hope that helps. Also, I'm close enough to you we ought to get together for coffee.

Ric
s/v Blue Max
# 2692

tim_klynn · Nov 3, 2010

I was thinking of using Interlux Perfection when the day comes to repaint, but I read that as the paint dries, the gloss comes about from a component in the paint drying to the surface giving it a great gloss. The problem is that this separation makes it difficult or impossible to touch up spots later. For now, spraying Awlgrip seems like the best choice for me, as it is tough and should be repairable. Tim

hheiduck · Nov 3, 2010

Imron or Awlgrip, when professionally applied will last for many years and require next to no upkeep.

Hans Heiduck

dougpol1 · Nov 3, 2010

On 11/2/2010 11:16 PM, Bruce Bergman wrote:

dougpol1 · Nov 3, 2010

On 11/3/2010 12:47 AM, FDEBAGGIS@... wrote:

dougpol1 · Nov 3, 2010

On 11/3/2010 9:45 AM, Hans Heiduck wrote:

vegatern · Nov 3, 2010

I painted deck and topsides about 5 years ago. I used 2 part Perfection on the deck, brushed. I stripped, prepped and painted it with the boat in the water. The only problem I had with the Perfection is that I had assumed the primer, Prep Kote I think, was a sandable primer but it is an epoxy so of course it won't sand well. I spent a good deal of time sanding out the brush marks in the primer. The 2 part went on easily and is a good hard finish. I added some flattening agent because the first coat was a bit too glossy, white, and would be hard on the eyes in the sun. I then hauled and did the topsides in the yard. I used Brightsides, rolled and tipped, two coats over the prepared and sanded, and tacked raged, hull. Working alone about 30 min. per side on a clear Sunday morning when the yard was quiet. I misted the ground to hold down dust. The result looked sprayed, even from very close. I recall that I had reduced the paint so that a pencil mark was not quite hidden on the first coat. (I had gone over the hull and marked spots that needed work). An advantage with the Brightsides is that one can practice on a bit of glass first, and it can be touched up easily later when needed. Not easy if you need to mix a small amount of 2 part.
After 5 years the hull needs paint again but I think I am not as gentle with the boat as some of my neighbors are. She is sailed at least once a week year round and I've come along the dock a bit hard a good number of times ( I've been without an engine for almost 3 years) She also hangs on a mooring so has those stains at the bow and the 2 part would not cure that. The Deck paint is still fine except for a few small chips.
The two part paints contain a chemical, isocyanite (sp), which can cause an allergic reaction when it is inhaled as a mist. It is potentially fatal and a positive pressure respirator is the only safe way to use the material. It is safe to brush however.

Craig Tern #1519

pjacobs55 · Nov 3, 2010

Ditto on the Imron ... it's great stuff, but pretty nasty and toxic when sprayed. I modified a full face respirator to draw outside air, using a sump pump hose kit. It worked pretty well, but a positive airflow respirator is the best answer.

http://tinyurl.com/2c243dh

An HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure) gun keeps the amount of fog down, too, and is more economical on paint.

Spraying gives really good results. That said, I haven't done the roll and tip thing yet.

http://tinyurl.com/36voynt

Good Old Boat Magazine's latest issue has a good article on rolling and tipping paint. An interesting point made was that excess paint, kept overnight in the fridge, required no tipping.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

philgalbiati · Nov 3, 2010

I saw an article in one of the mags which reviewed a pair of shoes that fastened with velcro. They don't require ANY brain cells to tie them, and when used in conjunction with a 2-part paint sprayed with no respirator inside a closed garage, you don't notice any brush strokes and you forget that you don't have a girlfriend. I forget whether it was in Practical Sailor or High Times.....

--p

tim_klynn · Nov 3, 2010

Nice job on that boat.
I have a Sata Vision 2000, supplied air respirator that works great w/a beard. I hook it up to feed through an air refrigerator and it is very comfortable. I generally spray w/a HVLP setup and even when spraying indoors w/catalyzed laquers, I can't smell any fumes (and no, it is not because I have destroyed all my olfactory nerve endings).

Around here, the humidity is so low (I get very little water out of the refrig) that paint dries almost too fast for roll and tip.

I have noticed that a lot of professional painters are border line alcoholics. I always assumed that they were using ingested alcohol as a solvent to remove inhaled toxins from their bloodstream. Worth a try... -Tim

dougpol1 · Nov 3, 2010

On 11/03/2010 01:21 PM, Phil wrote:

dougpol1 · Nov 3, 2010

It is quite possible that these two part paints are not as dangerous to
your nervous system as the older paints that depend on evaporation to
dry. All the liquids have to go into the atmosphere for them to harden.
Two part paints use a catalyst to dry and don't depend on evaporation at
all, or at least very little. That is the case with epoxy. It is
reasonable safe to use epoxy in a fairly enclosed room without a
resprator. The thing that is dangerouse about epoxy is the possibility
of developing an allergic reaction so it needs to be kept off the skin.
I don't think anyone gets an allergy to the fumes as there are almost none.
A trick I have learned down through the years is to coat bright work
with clear or orange shellac several coats as this is not porous and
almost no moisture gets through it to expand the wood causing it to
crack the varnish on top. The varnish does not go down into the wood so
that you have to sand the wood down to get the old varnish off. If you
want to remove the shellac you just wipe it down with alcohol. The
shellac can be layed on almost as many times in a day as you want. I
have been recently used six coats in one day. The shellac has no UV
barrier in it so it takes several coats of varnish to protect it. My
little Elver 20 ft canoe yawl is now five years old and still has her
original coats of varnish. I will give it a light sanding this winter
and then two coats of varnish. I will do the bright work on Sea-Legs an
Albin Vega next spring. All of my Elver's trim is long leaf yellow pine
and that stuff has a tendancy to darken in the weather but the
combination of shellac and Varnish has kept this in check.
If anyone wants to try it the next time you do your bright work get
a piece of wood and try the shellac and varnish on it and set it out in
the weather you will be pleasantly surprised at it's
longevity. Doug