Packing Gland question

[tcrespo]

I had my boat out of the water for the last 3 weeks - bottom paint and a thru-hull replaced. Boat yard would not let me on board to do any work, so I had to watch from a distance. I thought about having the packing gland replaced but the budget couldn't handle it.

Boat is now back in the water (since yesterday) and I'm dripping at a rate of around 1 drop per 9 seconds (I was at 1 drop per 3 minutes before). I'm going to retighten the gland, but here's my question:

Can the packing gland material dry out when the boat is out of the water? If so, will it reabsorb water and reseal, or is it shot?

I know I can just replace it, but honestly I never have - I've read Maine Sail's DIY a million times - I'm sure I can do it, but the thought of water coming into the boat really makes me nervous.

Thoughts?

Thanks - Tom

 

[Bill Roosa]

I doubt if it is shot

1 drop in 9 seconds is not what I'd call shot. Have you tried to tighten it?
To answer your question; Yes they do dry out but since it is already dripping I'd say it has re-wetted itself.
Don't forget to have a bucket handy and a first mate there to make a run to WM "just in case"

 

[Glenn17467]

Not to worry. Did mine a couple years ago. A lot of water at first, but when you get the first piece of packing back in it will slow. Key is to have pieces pre cut and ready to go. I had to send the admiral to West Marine for 3/16" as the PO had 1/4" on the boat.

 

[Ed Schenck]

H27 Packing Gland

You said the budget couldn't handle it. Did you mean to repack or to replace the stuffing box? Because you cannot replace the packing gland in the boat.

My biggest problem is always getting the old packing out. So you do need to expect to have water flowing for a few minutes. But there should not be much if you stuff some rags around the shaft. Hopefully you have enough shaft space to slide the box forward so that you can get in there.

Before you start you can wrap the packing around the shaft in front of the box to cut for size. Use a very sharp blade and make a good angle cut. Cut three pieces and have them ready to install.

I install one at a time and then screw the box on to push that ring to the bottom, then the second, and finally the third. Good luck and don't forget to get a tight lock with the lock ring.

 

[tcrespo]

Couldn't afford to pay the yard to repack it for me - the bill was already getting too large and I thought I could get away with leaving it a little longer. I think it's time to just man-up and do it myself - I don't think it's going to reseal now that it's dried out.

 

[Rich (P303)]

Couldn't afford to pay the yard to repack it for me - the bill was already getting too large and I thought I could get away with leaving it a little longer. I think it's time to just man-up and do it myself - I don't think it's going to reseal now that it's dried out.

I don't think it is dried out. Tighten the nut till it just stops dripping... fire-her up and take it out for a spin. Repeat process... until it stops dripping when stopped.

If you are tightening up to beat the band... it is time to repack.

Repacking was no big deal on my boat... I could have gone out for breakfast and not returned until dinner... at that the bilge pump might have come on once.

Cut your rings before you start tearing anything apart... and have everything on hand.

You can do it!

 

[John]

Wax?

Would it be possible to paste some wax or other similar material around the outside of the shaft - where it exits the hull - to prevent a surge of water while changing the packing? Maybe even wrap and tie a plastic bag round it? Of course yoiu'd have to dive or hire a diver to do it.

 

[tcrespo]

I've read about people plugging up the outside of the shaft temporarily for that very purpose. Of course, the water here just dropped under 50 degrees so even with a wetsuit I'm not getting in until April...

 

[Fairwind]

If it's not broke, fix it until it is...I would try snugging up the packing nut a little first.. One drop every 9 seconds does not warrant re-packing...

 

[BobM]

Be sure to only snug the nut one flat at a time.

Also, for all you fans out there...one of those wax toilet bowl rings might serve as a means to keep the water out. Another trick I've heard is to take a bicycle inner tube, cut it into a long strip then wrap it around to make a temporary seal. Clamps or perhaps some creative duct taping to hold it in place.

I found out exactly how fast water comes in when I tried to loosen my nut one flat with the engine running. By the way, that is not recommended if your stuffing box is dripping wax, not water, as mine was (new packing). The hot packing stuck to the shaft and spun the nut right off (a hired Captain at the helm refused to stop...or deal with the issue...nice guy but apparently not mechanically inclined...go figure. I had just put a TON of time into redoing the drive train and didn't want to do it all over again because of an overtightened nut...it wasn't over torqued either...might have been overstuffed by a pro). It wasn't much faster than a couple of gallons per minute. Make sure your bilge pump is functional before you try it, but I wouldn't hesitate to do it as long as I thought it out first. Get your packing cut, tools out and your means of stemming the leak ready. Undo the nut and stem the water. Sit and watch it for a couple of minutes. Then go to town. Make sure you have made or bought your flax removal tool. With the nut on the shaft it will be tough to get out.

If you are uncomfortable with the water coming in, just re-tighten the nut. It shouldn't be hard to put back on, even with the water coming in. There just isn't that much force. If you are quick I doubt you will have 5-10 gallons come aboard.

Have fun with that 50 degree water. ;-)

 

[tcrespo]

I'm one of those very anal people that likes my bilge to be completely dry, all the time. No ice in the ice box (it melts into the bilge), bilge has been painted a nice white so that I can quickly spot if anything looks amiss. I know, chill out and enjoy - it's only a little water.

Going to gather up the materials today, plan it all out (reread Maine Sails doc a few more thousand times) and hit it tomorrow. Thanks for all of the advice - much appreciated!

 

[slr295]

Check archives there is an excellent article in there complete with pictures
Might be from "Mainsail"

 

[tcrespo]

Just got back from the (very cold) boat. Tried to snug up the nut - it bottom and had nowhere else to go after 1/4 turn. Spoke to the previous owner (I've had her for 2 years) - he had not changed out the flax ever in the 8 years he had owned her!

Trip to West Marine, picked up 1/4 and 3/16 flax and headed back. Very nervous to do this, but no guts, no glory. Back the nut off and started to scrape out the old stuff - there was almost nothing in there at all - just a few specs. Very little room to work - cut the 1/4" and spend an hour trying to get it to fit. No go - ruined 3 pieces and finally said this has to be too big. Moved to the 3/16 - it went in, snug but not tight. Put in 3 rings, 120 degrees offset (per Maine Sail - thanks again for such a great how-to). Finger tightened and it's dripping once per minute with the motor off.

I'm going to let it soak for 24 hours and then do some adjustments. Probably got about 10 gallons of water in the boat but nowhere near the flood that I thought would happen.

Thanks to all and the advice. For those that have not yet tried this, it really wasn't too bad. Worst part is that my body is sore from laying on top of a Yanmar for 2 hours.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Good work Tom!

Sounds like another quarter to half a turn and you are home free. What, you didn't have a nice cushion to lay over the engine? Isn't that a great way to work on the stuffing box? My H37C was that way until I learned that later models had a door from the quarterberth. So I cut one. Now I can change the packing while my right cheek gets the imprint of the corner of the water heater. And cold there? Try a high of 24 here today!

 

[sailingdog]

It would probably have been better to get the Gore-Tex packing material instead of the flax-based stuff. It's a better solution IMHO. Good job in any case.

Just got back from the (very cold) boat. Tried to snug up the nut - it bottom and had nowhere else to go after 1/4 turn. Spoke to the previous owner (I've had her for 2 years) - he had not changed out the flax ever in the 8 years he had owned her!

Trip to West Marine, picked up 1/4 and 3/16 flax and headed back. Very nervous to do this, but no guts, no glory. Back the nut off and started to scrape out the old stuff - there was almost nothing in there at all - just a few specs. Very little room to work - cut the 1/4" and spend an hour trying to get it to fit. No go - ruined 3 pieces and finally said this has to be too big. Moved to the 3/16 - it went in, snug but not tight. Put in 3 rings, 120 degrees offset (per Maine Sail - thanks again for such a great how-to). Finger tightened and it's dripping once per minute with the motor off.

I'm going to let it soak for 24 hours and then do some adjustments. Probably got about 10 gallons of water in the boat but nowhere near the flood that I thought would happen.

Thanks to all and the advice. For those that have not yet tried this, it really wasn't too bad. Worst part is that my body is sore from laying on top of a Yanmar for 2 hours.

 

[Rich (P303)]

Just got back from the (very cold) boat. Tried to snug up the nut - it bottom and had nowhere else to go after 1/4 turn. Spoke to the previous owner (I've had her for 2 years) - he had not changed out the flax ever in the 8 years he had owned her!

Trip to West Marine, picked up 1/4 and 3/16 flax and headed back. Very nervous to do this, but no guts, no glory. Back the nut off and started to scrape out the old stuff - there was almost nothing in there at all - just a few specs. Very little room to work - cut the 1/4" and spend an hour trying to get it to fit. No go - ruined 3 pieces and finally said this has to be too big. Moved to the 3/16 - it went in, snug but not tight. Put in 3 rings, 120 degrees offset (per Maine Sail - thanks again for such a great how-to). Finger tightened and it's dripping once per minute with the motor off.

I'm going to let it soak for 24 hours and then do some adjustments. Probably got about 10 gallons of water in the boat but nowhere near the flood that I thought would happen.

Thanks to all and the advice. For those that have not yet tried this, it really wasn't too bad. Worst part is that my body is sore from laying on top of a Yanmar for 2 hours.

You're all set now! Take a look after a couple of hours and make a final adjustment if necessary. No more than than 1 flat at a time.

Worst part was getting down there for any length of time I am sure. MaineSail had an excellent post. He coxed me thru it too!

Now you can advise others in your marina... and show them how!

Good job.

 

[Maine Sail]

Please...

Please do yourself a favor and do not make any more adjustments until you have more than 3+ hours of shaft run time then dial it down some more. Then wait until you get to 10+ hours of run time and make your final adjustment.

Making adjustments before you've run the engine can lead to bad outcomes as traditional flax takes some time to break in and fully absorb the water. Tightening it down to far now, prior to break in, can result in additional swelling of the flax during break in and a dry run (no drips) that could damage the flax and the shaft.

If you're at a dock simply put it in gear, at idle, and let her run for a while then make your adjustments..

 

[Steph]

plumber's putty

good reading and it may be too late but I've heard of people using plumber's putty to seal the entry point of the shaft thru the hull when changing the stuffing box....I have the toilet bowl wax for emergencies hull leaks but think that it would be tougher to remove than the putty.

 

[tcrespo]

My West Marine is 99% powerboat/lake based so their choices were very limited (they've only recently added 1 small aisle for sail boats). I think long term I may replace it with the better stuff but for now it was all about stopping the leak.

Maine Sail - at the rate I use the motor, it'll take me all season to get 3 hours on it!

Again - thanks to all - I slept much better last night knowing this was off the list of emergencies.

Tom

 

[Roger Long]

Making adjustments before you've run the engine can lead to bad outcomes as traditional flax takes some time to break in and fully absorb the water.

Traditional flax packing should be removed from the marine stores and the market. They don't sell deadeyes and pine tar anymore, why sell flax? You can destroy a shaft with flax if you don't have more knowledge of how to adjust it than most boaters have these days. With flexible stuffing boxes and mounts, there is much too fine a line between the pressure that makes it work and the pressure that can damage a shaft. It dates back to the days when all shaft lines were rigid.

I use the GFO packing which is Gore Tex impregnated with Teflon. I clamped a piece around a S.S. bolt in a vice and chucked the bolt into a drill. I then ran it and ran it increasing the pressure until it was melting and black juice was dripping out. A stuffing box would have been smoking at this point but the bolt came out looking untouched.

Here's a picture of what flax looks like after just one season when over tightened:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/Strider06work.htm#Flax

The Teflon impregnated flax packing SBO has is probably better, maybe good enough, but I haven't given it the torture test GFO shrugged off.

You can get GFO here:

http://www.emarineinc.com/products/gfopacking/packing.html