Outdated Flares of All Types…..

[sailcapt340]

This has been debated before, but are you using Electronic Beacon “Flares“ now, instead of the traditional flares we all know?
Like most, I have soooo many outdated standard flares. Aerial and handheld.
I have some in my cars for an emergency, given away many more for the same reason to others, lit some off on The Fourth of July, keep a lot on the boat as spares, tried to organize a day for everyone to light and see how they look and work, but that didn’t get the backing I hoped for.
So, I want to go electronic.
Which Electronic Beacons are you using and have a good sense of trust in? In dense fog, weather, rain situations etc.
No rush, I‘ll need new ones before July 2024, so I’m still good to go and can pass an USCG inspection.
Thank you for the input.

 

[Mark Maulden]

Electronic flares have their place. At the Seattle boat show, there was a booth of such. I asked him how does someone several miles away see it? Need some altitude!! He pointed to an expanded boat hook with an electronic flare taped to it..Im going to buy a plastic sealing ammo box for all my expired flares. Every few yrs the yacht club has a flare party..

 

[sailcapt340]

Mark, That‘s how I keep mine now. Got it from the Army/Navy Store in Newport just before they went of business a few years back. Well there goes another great place.
I missed a rare occasion just this month sponsored by RI Dept.of Environmental Management (RIDEM) and West Marine, at 3 locations no less. Bring in your outdated flares and get 20% off new ones. Last date was 5/4.
I am asking now if they are planning another in the coming months. If I get any word, I’ll post it.
But for now, back in storage.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Having seen the slag from handheld flares and the remarkably short time 12 gauge aerial flares are visible for I’m a believer in an electronic flare. Maybe there are times when it’s not the best fit and I still have a set of expired handheld flares in a box just in case, but I feel like it’s the better way to go in general.

We used our old flares at our yacht club’s annual sock burning / flare practice. Haven’t seen any expired flares fail to light yet, including a couple WWII era ones that the local maritime museum contributed. Your mileage may vary though.

 

[Tally Ho]

I am in the electronic flare camp too. With DSC, GPS, Distress capabilities in our VHF radios, I would Be relying on visual signals only when res users are close by…and the longer nature of the electronic flare makes sense.

Hand-held flares are an accident waiting to happen! And aerials disappear like a fart in the wind.

I still have expired flares, properly marked as such, on the boat…but they would be my last resort…

Greg

 

[Dalliance]

I am in the electronic flare camp too. With DSC, GPS, Distress capabilities in our VHF radios, I would Be relying on visual signals only when res users are close by…and the longer nature of the electronic flare makes sense.

Hand-held flares are an accident waiting to happen! And aerials disappear like a fart in the wind.

I still have expired flares, properly marked as such, on the boat…but they would be my last resort…

Greg

Same.
I just put new batteries in the electronic flair this week. Installation date marked on the batteries with a Sharpie per instructions from USCG Auxiliary last year. Last year’s batteries will go into a flashlight or whatever when needed.

 

[thinwater]

Electronic flares have their place. At the Seattle boat show, there was a booth of such. I asked him how does someone several miles away see it? Need some altitude!! He pointed to an expanded boat hook with an electronic flare taped to it..Im going to buy a plastic sealing ammo box for all my expired flares. Every few yrs the yacht club has a flare party..

I tested both types, side by side at a distance. Took pictures. I switched to electronic flares. Though not as bright they run for many hours and the pattern is identifiable as distress, not just a point of light you arn't sure you actually saw. They were much more recognizable.

You hang the e-flare. In some cases, that will mean rigging up a bridle. Do NOT use the bungee they come with--it will gyrate all over the place. Remember, they must be level for the beam to work. No hand-holding!

Really, you will call for help with a cell phone. Then VHF. Then, just maybe, a flare.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Really, you will call for help with a cell phone. Then VHF. Then, just maybe, a flare.

Yes, near coast. Of course it depends on the urgency and nature of the help you need. Grounding or mechanical (calling Towboat or Seatow) I’d try VHF first, then phone if no response. For fire or medical emergency medical services - again I’d expect the fastest response time would be from local first responders via VHF.
Offshore is a different matter - again VHF first if I could reach CG or ask nearby ships to relay, if not I’d use longer range satellite comms, choice would depend on the urgency and nature of the help needed. I have EPIRB, PLB, Inreach, and we can make a cell call using Wi-Fi over Starlink. The electric ’flare’, EPIRB, PLB, and Inreach, electric flare, and hendheld VHF would be usable in the liferaft and dinghy if we had to abandon ship.
I’m not a fan of the electric flares even though I own 2 of them. They would be least likely to get anyone's attention and would be my last resort. I think they‘re only practical as a ‘locate’ device after alerts were already sent out and received by other means.
Edit: I think electric flares are most useful at boat shows, and as a way to be compliant with the regs without the need for pyrotechnics.

 

[twodzusfittings]

Last year’s batteries will go into a flashlight or whatever when needed.

I believe the Orion Electronic Flare uses two D Cell batteries. I'm considering buying a rechargeable kit set up. Currently I keep the alkaline batteries out of the unit to avoid corrosion as these units are not cheap.

 

[shemandr]

I've never set off a fire of any type although I always carried them and managed the expiration dates. I've never even seen someone else light one. I once tried to light some expired flares at a 4th party. They all failed. I am hesitant of setting off flares thinking I could burn myself or start a fire.
I wonder if there is some kind of training.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I've never set off a fire of any type although I always carried them and managed the expiration dates. I've never even seen someone else light one. I once tried to light some expired flares at a 4th party. They all failed. I am hesitant of setting off flares thinking I could burn myself or start a fire.
I wonder if there is some kind of training.

Our yacht club’s annual event is very helpful for that. Until I started going to that I had never lit a flare either. The first time I didn’t think it was perfectly intuitive. I was glad to have someone there to demonstrate, and very glad to learn before I ever needed to use one in a rush. Once I had learned how it works and the safety precautions I felt it was safe enough that I was comfortable letting my 11 year old son light and hold one, with supervision. But that was on a dock where the slag could fall down in the water or on wet ground, not on a fiberglass boat.

 

[sailcapt340]

You hang the e-flare. In some cases, that will mean rigging up a bridle. Do NOT use the bungee they come with--it will gyrate all over the place. Remember, they must be level for the beam to work. No hand-holding!

Being that they need to be level, could they be hung from my flag halyard with a bridle. Mine are at approximately 18 and 28 feet?

 

[Tally Ho]

I've never set off a fire of any type although I always carried them and managed the expiration dates. I've never even seen someone else light one. I once tried to light some expired flares at a 4th party. They all failed. I am hesitant of setting off flares thinking I could burn myself or start a fire.
I wonder if there is some kind of training.

I took a bunch of expired hand-heads and aerials home and lit them on July 4th. The aerials are kind of cool, shooting out of a small gauge shotgun pistol. Not a ton of recoil, but you know it when you pull the trigger. But they don’t stay in the air very long…I would say 15-30 seconds.

Handhelds make great fire starters. I stuck one in a brush pile I wanted to burn…it did a great job of lighting the pile. No way do I want that on my boat deck.

I have never had an expired one not light. I think I have some in the shed…I should check them again.

Greg

 

[Dalliance]

I believe the Orion Electronic Flare uses two D Cell batteries. I'm considering buying a rechargeable kit set up. Currently I keep the alkaline batteries out of the unit to avoid corrosion as these units are not cheap.

You are correct. Two D Cell batteries. I take them out during winter layup, but not during sailing season.

 

[thinwater]

Yes, near coast. Of course it depends on the urgency and nature of the help you need. Grounding or mechanical (calling Towboat or Seatow) I’d try VHF first, then phone if no response. For fire or medical emergency medical services - again I’d expect the fastest response time would be from local first responders via VHF.
Offshore is a different matter - again VHF first if I could reach CG or ask nearby ships to relay, if not I’d use longer range satellite comms, choice would depend on the urgency and nature of the help needed. I have EPIRB, PLB, Inreach, and we can make a cell call using Wi-Fi over Starlink. The electric ’flare’, EPIRB, PLB, and Inreach, electric flare, and hendheld VHF would be usable in the liferaft and dinghy if we had to abandon ship.
I’m not a fan of the electric flares even though I own 2 of them. They would be least likely to get anyone's attention and would be my last resort. I think they‘re only practical as a ‘locate’ device after alerts were already sent out and received by other means.
Edit: I think electric flares are most useful at boat shows, and as a way to be compliant with the regs without the need for pyrotechnics.

In fact, the USCG tested them and found the SOS flashing pattern MORE likely to attract attention. A single light, far in the distance, for a few moments? Probably just a fishing light or a small boat.

 

[Mark Maulden]

In fact, the USCG tested them and found the SOS flashing pattern MORE likely to attract attention. A single light, far in the distance, for a few moments? Probably just a fishing light or a small boat.

Would be interesting to read the test report. I’ll try and find it next few days…not high on the list..

 

[thinwater]

Would be interesting to read the test report. I’ll try and find it next few days…not high on the list..

There was also an earlier document (white only) that I can't find.

“It was interesting to learn that at six miles, most observers thought a red flare looked like a vessel sidelight, while they easily identified the cyan and red-orange characteristic,” said project manager M.J. Lewandowski, who works in the Environment and Waterways Branch at RDC.

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apps.dtic.mil

Research Spotlight: Alternatives to Pyrotechnic Distress Signals

Distress flares are vital to boating safety, but pyrotechnic flares can pose a safety hazard to people not trained in their use. In addition, expired flares can create environmental hazards through leaching chemicals when disposed of in landfills or at sea.

www.hstoday.us

 

[Mark Maulden]

There was also an earlier document (white only) that I can't find.

“It was interesting to learn that at six miles, most observers thought a red flare looked like a vessel sidelight, while they easily identified the cyan and red-orange characteristic,” said project manager M.J. Lewandowski, who works in the Environment and Waterways Branch at RDC.

Loading…

apps.dtic.mil

Research Spotlight: Alternatives to Pyrotechnic Distress Signals

Distress flares are vital to boating safety, but pyrotechnic flares can pose a safety hazard to people not trained in their use. In addition, expired flares can create environmental hazards through leaching chemicals when disposed of in landfills or at sea.

www.hstoday.us

This is evidently discussing handheld flares (evidenced by the pic). My vision throughout this discussion was a flare fired into the air where you would not have the misinterpretation at water level. I'm not down on electric flares. However, I do not like the battery issue as it can be forgotten about or alkalines can/will leak over time. Are they rechargeable? I will admit to some ignorance here and I will need to do something this fall….

 

[Hello Below]

I've never set off a fire of any type although I always carried them and managed the expiration dates. I've never even seen someone else light one. I once tried to light some expired flares at a 4th party. They all failed. I am hesitant of setting off flares thinking I could burn myself or start a fire.
I wonder if there is some kind of training.

The last thing I would consider as I was attending to an onboard fire, flood or medical emergency would be to take the time to light off flares. In all my time on the water (and that's a lot of time) and monitoring VHF channel #16, I have never heard the Coast Guard on either side of the border ask the distressed vessel to employ a marine emergency flare nor even ask if the vessel has emergency marine flares onboard. They go through a long list of questions including if the vessel has a cell phone but never any mention of flares. I have been inspected by both Canadian and US Coast Guards and have always had the required number and types of unexpired flares and I even have the USCG approved Sirius C-1003 with Duracell 10 Year batteries in it ready to go. There is no training in the use of flares that I know of in Canada, it is difficult to properly dispose of them, it is unlawful to light off marine emergency flares at anytime in Canada and the USCG electronic approved flare is not approved in Canada. An updated regulation from Transport Canada (Nov 2021) states that an approved eVDSD (electronic flare) when "carried with an approved smoke signal" is allowed. One of the approved eVDSD is a Sirius C-1002 which is listed at $299.99 (US).

 

[jssailem]

Batteries, especially "Alkalines," will leak and corrode electrical components. The only strategy I have considered prudent is to change out batteries on a schedule, even if they are not dead. It is similar to the thought that your smoke detector in the house only works if the batteries are in good order. Replace the batteries for the home smoke detector every fall and spring commissioning for the boat.

Yes, I am equating home fire safety with emergency boat safety. It works for me.
YMMV