Outboard issues [SOLVED]

[Brian D]

Last September on a trip to Dana Point, my outboard quit on me. I figured it was a fuel issue as I have two tanks with one of them empty. However, I had the valve open so I suspected I starved the engine. I was able to resolve the problem quickly and resumed the trip. Coming back home there were no issues.

This March it happened again. But this time both tanks had fuel. It took me over an hour to get the engine started again but had to be towed to my slip for fear of the engine failing in a busy harbor with very little wind.

This morning I fired up the engine to prepare for another trip on the 21st. As a result of the March trip, I changed out the fuel water separator. The engine ran for a few minutes then sputtered dead. I tried to start it several times and it would not. After pulling out the choke the engine again came to life. When I put the choke back in the engine dies.

There were a few other things I did to eliminate a fuel issues. I wish I could use an external tank but the engine I have does not have a standard fuel connection. Yamaha changed it to a round lock on type and not the prongs. I cannot find a hose that has that connection. I have looked but probably not very hard I will admit.

So back to the choke / no-choke. Now we did have the fires not too long ago but I never ran the engine so I am sure I did not ingest any particles. But it is possible. Other than that, does anyone have any suggestions? I will go back to the boat tomorrow and continue with the trouble-shooting. I really do not want to take the motor off the boat and take it back to the dealer. It is a lot of work to do that, but IF I have to I will.

I am now open for suggestions. Thanks

 

[Stu Jackson]

Re: Outboard issues

Brian,

Connections: sometimes it's easier to find the connectors separately, rather than on a pre-made hose package.

Other things: I had hard starting on our engine, turned out to be the kill switch wiring. While you didn't have hard starting, any intermittent bad electrical part could cause stopping, now that you seem to have eliminated fuel as an issue.

As always, carb, carb, carb.

I'm confused by the apparent inconsistency: "...as I have two tanks..." and " I wish I could use an external tank..."

Also, what engine? --- that would help.

Good luck.

 

[kloudie1]

Re: Outboard issues

like the man said... carb carb carb.. if it runs with the choke on and dies when the choke is pushed off, most likely plugged low speed jets in the carb. could be air leaks too, but carb would be my prime suspect. Does pumping the priming bulb keep it from killing ? I needs to be pulled and cleaned and the float level verified..

 

[Brian D]

Re: Outboard issues

Brian,

Connections: sometimes it's easier to find the connectors separately, rather than on a pre-made hose package.

Other things: I had hard starting on our engine, turned out to be the kill switch wiring. While you didn't have hard starting, any intermittent bad electrical part could cause stopping, now that you seem to have eliminated fuel as an issue.

As always, carb, carb, carb.

I'm confused by the apparent inconsistency: "...as I have two tanks..." and " I wish I could use an external tank..."

Also, what engine? --- that would help.

Good luck.

Sorry Stu, was going to add the motor but forgot. Yamaha T9.9XPA. Purchased it in 2011 I think. So it is still under warranty. But I am sure it not a motor issue.

Have two internal tanks of 30 gal capacity. But tanks are 50%. I checked fuel and it has a smiggin of water. Just a really tiny bit, not enough to cause this issue. The external tank I also have but not the correct connectors. It was going to be used to further eliminate fuel issues.

Right now I am thinking air intake in the carb. You could be right about carb, carb, carb. At least all indications are air intake. I mean I close the choke and the motor dies right away. like there is no air/fuel mixture.

 

[Brian D]

like the man said... carb carb carb.. if it runs with the choke on and dies when the choke is pushed off, most likely plugged low speed jets in the carb. could be air leaks too, but carb would be my prime suspect. Does pumping the priming bulb keep it from killing ? I needs to be pulled and cleaned and the float level verified..

Pumping the bulb does nothing. Only the choke and me goosing it a bit keeps it running. Choke in and I don't have enough time to goose it before it dies. Hmmm. Float and jets? Yeah, could be clogged. How do I clean them?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Re: Outboard issues

1. Sometimes those bulbs die, don't know how old yours is but they do have a shelf life. Another reason why I gag when Yanmar owners put 'em in their diesel lines instead of electric fuel pumps. Whoops - thread drift...

2. Carb cleaner for starters (pi!).

There are most likely zillions of YouTube videos on how to clean your carb. Also check the linkage if you think it's an air mix issue.

 

[Rich Stidger]

Re: Outboard issues

Brian-

I feel your pain. Last year I lived in outboard hell. I have found through experience that the carburetor and fuel are 95% of the outboard problems that I have. Also in my experience when an engine (outboard, lawn mower, chainsaw, etc) will run with the choke closed or partly closed, but not when it is open, that means that the carb has some plugged passages.

One trick that sometimes works is to mix up some fresh gas with a heavy dose of carb cleaner. Get the engine running and back out the idle mixture screw and the high speed jet screw. Sometimes you can't do that because the adjusting screws don't exist. But if they do run the engine for 5-10 minutes. With luck the carb cleaning solution will clean out the passages. Then you can reset the adjustments back to normal. Spraying carb cleaner into the carb does nothing unless you have a sticky choke. Don't waste your time or product.

If you cannot accomplish this trick or if it doesn't work, I think you are stuck with removing the carb and doing a comprehensive cleaning. When I need to do this job, I take lots of pictures and I am very careful to re-assemble exactly as it came apart. I have had good luck using a carb dip solution in a gallon can. It comes with a basket that you put all the parts into and soak it overnight. Having said that, a friend of mine who owns a local marina and does lots of outboard work claims that the best way to clean a carb is to put everything in an ultrasonic cleaner. You might consider taking your bag of disassembled parts to your local marina and ask if they can give them an ultrasonic cleaning.

After re-assembly, get a small quantity of some fresh fuel, mix the correct oil ratio and put in the recommended dose of Marine Stabil. I would recommend ALWAYS using Stabil as soon as you buy gasoline. In some locations (but maybe not CA) if you buy premium gasoline it does not have any ethanol in it. In other words it is real gasoline and not the crap we have to use in our cars.

Lastly, after you get your beast running well, make a practice to always shut off the fuel and run the engine dry at the end of each day. Letting this crap gasoline sit in your carb is absolutely detrimental to the engine's health.

All of these recommendations are things that I do and I have found them to work on all of my small engines.

 

[MrUnix]

Re: Outboard issues

Others have pointed in the right direction.. sounds like either a vacuum leak or plugged low speed jet. Plenty of info floating around the net to show you how to diagnose both. I've also had good success with cleaning up gunked carbs without disassembly by running a good gas/sea foam mixture through the system. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.. YMMV.

And take Ricks advice.. shut the fuel off and run dry after use, particularly when it will be sitting inactive for any length of time.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[Brian D]

Re: Outboard issues

No kidding, Stu. Looks like I will have to moderate my own thread. LOL

Rich, I just did some research and what you said was basically echoed. Two products were recommended; SeaFoam and Ring Free. Now I do use Staybil with each addition of fuel. But I do not run the engine dry. I will have to start doing that. I will also get some more Staybil, or Seafoam, or Ring Clean, and try a "shock treat" with fresh fuel in a one gallon can. We will see what that will do. Hopefully it will clean out the jets.

Thanks guys. I will still listen to some other opinions and suggestions. Would like a list of things to try before pulling the motor and hauling it back to Yamaha.

added: Brad, saw your comments after I posted mine. Thanks.

 

[seadaddler]

carb

I have had both of my outboards do what yours is doing and nothing I added
all what you but no help or very short lived help.
Sorry to say the only that worked and lasted is taking off the carb and cleaning out the jets not so much the float and mostly the jets need cleaning and have a very small wire to use in and out the jets.
Nick

 

[Brian D]

Re: Outboard issues

Nick, if that is what I have to do then you are correct, it must be done. I will try what the guys suggested first. The engine is relatively new so it can't be that gummed up. Else it would not work at all, at least in my minds eye.

Guys, I think you have nailed the problem. I know for sure that I have never run the engine dry. Also, after each use I tilt it up and flush it with fresh water, but I have never done anything with the fuel. So I am sure the fuel in the hose drained back into the carb and just sat there. That I am now sure is what is causing the issue. Not knowing enough about these things is really dragging me down. I just want to get the thing working without spending a huge sum and get on the water.

Thanks again!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Rich, I just did some research and what you said was basically echoed.

I will still listen to some other opinions and suggestions. Would like a list of things to try before pulling the motor and hauling it back to Yamaha.

Brian, you could wait all you want, but the input here is about all you'll get that simply won't be copied by the next ten respondents. Really, how much more do you think you'll need? Rich's input was fantastic and echoed by others. Echo, echo, echo...

Take the carb off and clean it, or try it in situ. If that doesn't work, and you're still under warranty, then by all means, take it back, but that would be perhaps an expensive lesson if it isn't covered under warranty (like that old catch-all "...normal wear and tear is NOT covered...").

Good luck.

 

[Rich Stidger]

<snip> The engine is relatively new so it can't be that gummed up. Else it would not work at all, at least in my minds eye.
<snip>

Brian, I think this is a wrong thought. The newness of the engine really has no bearing on how gummed up the carb can be. This gasoline that we must use is such garbage that it only takes a season of use to clog up the works. Especialy if the engine is only used on weekends and for short periods.

Your car is much different- you use so much fuel on such a regular basis that things stay pretty clean. And today's cars are fuel injected - no carb. I'm not sure that the injectors have larger passages, but I suspect they are less susceptible to the deposits that will choke a carb.

 

[Brian D]

Re: Outboard issues

Yeah, you guys are right. I will get on it first thing in the morning.

 

[Benny17441]

Re: Outboard issues

Remove, disassemble and clean carburetor.

 

[Nom De Guerre]

Actually, I can add something...

Be aware that you may have a tiny hard floaty in the bowl that may not be resolved by a cleaning agent. This floaty may move in and out of the low idle orifice (out allows starting, in kills idle and hampers starting until out again). Be sure to follow cleaning with BLOWING through all orifices (passageways and holes) with compressed air (a compressor or dust can is equally effective).

I have 2x experience with same issue, 2x carb disassembly and cleaning resolved the problem. Now, rather than running the carb dry, I make sure to actually RUN the engine every 2 weeks. No more issues.

 

[pacerpilot]

Re: Outboard issues

Brian, Nom De Guerre has a good suggestion. Those "Computer Can of Air" dusters work great for after you've removed and cleaned your carb! Remember this-Stabil is cheap and easy! I wish I were sailing out of Oceanside (I'm stranded in east Texas right now)!

 

[Jerry Clark H356 SV Persi]

I had a 4hp Yamaha and one mechanic I had work on cleaning the carburetor said the gas would go bad in three weeks. I believe him. This gas with ethanol is just plain crap. It will also dissolve your fuel lines also and you should check the fuel line connections as I had one go bad. I got rid of it and bought a LEhr Propane 5hp.

I think your larger engines would be ok once you have had the carb cleaned ultrasonically. After you do use sea foam and Stabil.

 

[Brian D]

Re: Outboard issues

OK guys, I really want to try and avoid dismantling something I know nothing about. LOL! Well, at least I will try. So I am going to try Yamalube Ring Free. I will get some in the morning. I know that I have a fighting chance because I can get the motor to run with the choke out. I think that is half the battle. So if I can get it to burn with the choke out it might do some cleaning. No doubt I will have to eventually take it apart. But I think I want to practice on one before tackling a good motor.

Thanks again for all the guidance.

 

[Don12364]

Re: Outboard issues

Sorry to come in to this debate so late but this is obviously an engine you rely upon at certain critical moments.
To me this means TWO things. 1) You need to get it fixed and 2) Most importantly; You need to know the cause of your problems. Otherwise how do you know it really is fixed and how can you dare to rely upon it ever again.

If it were mine I would carefully strip and clean the carb piece by piece including the jets and any fuel control parts such as floats and needles etc if the engine has them.
Then also take any fuel pipes off and blow them clear. I once had a partial blockage in my main diesel fuel feed pipe. It would start just fine but after ten minutes the blockage would get to the main engine filter and it would stall. By the time I had gotten round to opening everything up the blockage had drifted back towards the tank so next time it started just fine, only to repeat the whole sequence.
If you don't feel capable ask the guy you go to to find the cause
Good luck.