Is it fair to say that a simple fact of sailing is, that no matter how large or small a boat is, at times, you will have to deal with it being totally out of control?
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I agree, depending on the definition of “out of control” .. Three times in my in my 34 years of messing about in boats, I have been in a place where we were safe but we were not going where we wanted to be going and the boat(s) were being banged around a good bit. All three of these incidents were related to summer thunderstorms and the microbursts that they sometimes carry along. All three times, we had wind above 50 kts with higher gusts, for about an hour. The strategy was to position ourselves and the boat to be safe and deal with the waves that build very rapidly in the 10-15 foot deep water where we sail. There was no useful warning (3-5 minutes is what we got) from the CG or the NASA weather folks in these localized incidents. On the most recent one, with an experienced crew aboard, we used the waves to surf my H 34 to a max of 14 kts on the GPS; but we were not going where we wanted to go and it felt, when she broached once, that we were out of control.. Again, it depends on a definition of “out of control”. I'd say gear failure can put you there too.
"Totally" out of control? NO! Can you lose control? Yes! I have. I had a halyard jamb with the mainsail half hoist. Lost steering control. dropped anchor! regained control. If you have no engine , no anchor and no wind then you have no control but it doesn't matter unless the current is going to carry you over the edge of the earth. Then it matters . 
Downwind leg in an Wed. night race last summer. Wing on wing, wind increased from 12 to 30 with absolutely no warning. The 155% was fighting the main and we were lurching side to side flying towards the finish line. Not much we could(or chose) to do at the time but hang on and smile. Luckily it is very easy to furl the jib going DDW even in high wind.
How many times have you rounded up uncontrolably? My boat is tuned such that I can almost always counteract with the rudder if I cannot dump the main in time. I was on my father in law's boat one time and he refused to reef the main. I put the wheel hard over to avoid another boat and we continued to go straight. Almost ran into the guy who was on port tack that was not watching where he was going. Luckily we dumped the main just in time. To this day, I do not trust that boat. Later that season, the rudder fell off coming back from Bermuda. A manufacturers rep from the boat maker was on board and begged everyone not to take photos.
How many times have you rounded up uncontrolably? My boat is tuned such that I can almost always counteract with the rudder if I cannot dump the main in time. I was on my father in law's boat one time and he refused to reef the main. I put the wheel hard over to avoid another boat and we continued to go straight. Almost ran into the guy who was on port tack that was not watching where he was going. Luckily we dumped the main just in time. To this day, I do not trust that boat. Later that season, the rudder fell off coming back from Bermuda. A manufacturers rep from the boat maker was on board and begged everyone not to take photos.
Not "have to," no. You never need to be out of control. When it happens, it's something that was avoidable.
Experience prevents you from being totally out of control. In some cases experience may even prevent you from exposing yourself to conditions under which your are in danger of being totally out of control. Sometimes being a little out of control is fun though!
Out of control? No...
Very uncomfortable? A couple of times in bad weather, but was able to correct the problem to my satisfaction.
Experience, knowledge of what your boat can do, common sense, and a little luck. will all lead to a satisfactory end to trouble. Purposefully going out in heavy weather will help you learn what to expect from your boat. Though not always fun it helps when you're out and have to deal with the unexpected.
Very uncomfortable? A couple of times in bad weather, but was able to correct the problem to my satisfaction.
Experience, knowledge of what your boat can do, common sense, and a little luck. will all lead to a satisfactory end to trouble. Purposefully going out in heavy weather will help you learn what to expect from your boat. Though not always fun it helps when you're out and have to deal with the unexpected.
More Out Of Control
Speaking of that.. Have you guys been watching this race? Here is one of the TV programs .. Check it out.. monohulls sailing at 30 kts .. pretty amazing technology !
http://www.volvooceanrace.tv/page/FeatureDetail/0,,12573~1485689,00.html
Speaking of that.. Have you guys been watching this race? Here is one of the TV programs .. Check it out.. monohulls sailing at 30 kts .. pretty amazing technology !
http://www.volvooceanrace.tv/page/FeatureDetail/0,,12573~1485689,00.html
Yes, we would need to define out of control. We were once leaving an anchorage in the everglades in the predawn hours while it was still dark. It was actually pitch black and I was still half sleep. I idled out under motor to about a 100 yards from shore and all a sudden the boat turned course to starboard about 90 degrees. I could not get it to turn back to port with the rudder so I diid a 360 degrees to regain course and the same thing happened again. It was then that I realized there was a strong current and my senses were being dulled by darkness. I applied more engine power and slowly regained course eventually breaking free from the current. A boat strictly under sail in a becalmed area is out of control if there is loss of steering and not enough wind to propel it in any direction. We once had a sail cover end jam into the mainsheet blocks on top of the arch as a vicious storm approached. We did not know at the time what was causing the sheet to jam so we opted for dropping sail and tying it down. We got hit with winds of 47 knots which would have surely destroyed something with a boom slam. We ended up motoring into depper water in a course opposite our original heading for about 30 minutes; but I felt we were in control as the boat was behaving as anticipated. I haven't had a chinese fire drill in my boat in more than a decade but I remeber those occassions and still laugh about them. It has been my experience that the words "always" and "never" do not bear a direct relationship to sailing.
I think that a competent sailer will have moments of "out of control" but they will be short lived as in a matter of a few minutes. We all experience a broach or round up from time to time, but that is really not out of control. In 30+ years of cruising/racing I have never felt the boat was "out of control". I always was able to find options to bring a boat under control.
I'm presently reading a book called "The Wreck of the William Brown." It recounts the story of a clipper ship "William Brown" which sailed the north Atlantic and, in 1840 hit an iceberg under full sail, going about 10 knots. It completely stove in the bow, shipped massive amounts of water and sank.
Not, THAT boat was out of control!
(By the way, the real story was how the few that were able to get into the longboat survived - by throwing some of them out into the ocean since the boat was overloaded. A brutal affair.)
Not, THAT boat was out of control!
(By the way, the real story was how the few that were able to get into the longboat survived - by throwing some of them out into the ocean since the boat was overloaded. A brutal affair.)
Prior to any endevor having to do with boating one must be equiped with all the safety gear required for the adventure and MUST use that gear in relation to his experence.
When faced with a situation that is threatening to you because of your previous experences, or lack of, you must make a choice about what to do next. That will advance the event one way or another. This will lead to more choices until the event is over. The outcome will judge the sucess of your choices.
Either you were sucessful or it was a learning experence. You were not "out of control" unless you made no choices.
Equipment can be damaged as a result of these "adventures", but, if you were properly equiped with safety gear you should be safe.
If you enter into an adventure and have no clue about what skills or knowledge is required then you best have a mentor or teacher to fall back on WITH YOU during this time. Any thing less than that is a danger to yourself and others.
When faced with a situation that is threatening to you because of your previous experences, or lack of, you must make a choice about what to do next. That will advance the event one way or another. This will lead to more choices until the event is over. The outcome will judge the sucess of your choices.
Either you were sucessful or it was a learning experence. You were not "out of control" unless you made no choices.
Equipment can be damaged as a result of these "adventures", but, if you were properly equiped with safety gear you should be safe.
If you enter into an adventure and have no clue about what skills or knowledge is required then you best have a mentor or teacher to fall back on WITH YOU during this time. Any thing less than that is a danger to yourself and others.
The essence of sailing is that you have no control over the source of your propulsion or the elements around you. It is only by control of your vessel and yourself, your reactions to the uncontrollable, that you are able to survive and obtain your objectives.
Even in a major storm, when you may be lying a-hull or running under streaming warps, below with hatches closed and unable to go on deck, you are still in control if you have anticipated and prepared youself and your vessel for such conditions. You are just responding appropriately to the hand you've been dealt.
Control is a matter of the mind; not of being able to always make your boat go in any direction you choose. We're never really in control when it only takes a few blood cells clumping together in a heart vessel to....
Yup, we really need to define 'out of control' especially for beginners. Back when I first started out sailing I regularly lost control, of course I eventually regained control but never the less the situation was always an out of control one. It still happens from time to time but very infrequently because I learned from all those mistakes I made, and even now the ones I make are much shorter lived due to confidence and remaining calm, (don't panic). It seems to me no matter what precautions I take, what due care and attention I exercise, $hit still happens.
So yes Hal, you are correct!
Out-of-control on a Hobie... is stuffing a hull and getting sent around the forestay on "the wire".
Being in-contol... is taking wire cutters with you next time!
Being in-contol... is taking wire cutters with you next time!
Control
I'd say that I've never been "totally out of control" in a boat. That includes broaches and capsizing.
Because I always was working on a plan to get the boat into a condition that I wanted and liked and saw a way to get there. Just because there were times that the boat was doing something I didn't want, doesn't mean I was out of control.
I guess that I would say, as long as you are still thinking and acting, you are still in (partial) control.
Todd
I'd say that I've never been "totally out of control" in a boat. That includes broaches and capsizing.
Because I always was working on a plan to get the boat into a condition that I wanted and liked and saw a way to get there. Just because there were times that the boat was doing something I didn't want, doesn't mean I was out of control.
I guess that I would say, as long as you are still thinking and acting, you are still in (partial) control.
Todd
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