recently purchased catalina 30 tall rig. will start racing.
what is the correct angle of heel for best speed.
what is the correct angle of heel for best speed.
optimum heel angle
- Thread starter jeffery burghardt
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It's not the heel angle, it's the polars. Find them on the C30 Association website: www.catalina30.com
Same answer for your repeated question; you might want to remove the duplicate.
15 degrees is a pretty good comfort place.
Same answer for your repeated question; you might want to remove the duplicate.
15 degrees is a pretty good comfort place.
Jeffery,
here are the polars:
Performance of your C30 consists of many factors. Velocity Prediction Programs (VPPs) and their Polar Diagrams indicate your target speeds and angles for best sailing in many wind conditions.
Polar Chart for C30 TRBS Owners have questioned the optimum run angle for best VMG to a down wind mark. Here are the polar numbers for a C30 Tall, ( w/ folding prop and standard keel) . Below are 6 wind speeds and associated vmg and run angles:
WIND VMG ANGLE (optimum)
6 3.194 143
8 4.055 145
10 4.862 158
12 5.588 166
16 6.517 174
20 7.158 175
Also you want to remember that altough a hard heel when going windward may be exhilerating, but you will have more hull area in the water hence more drag. It may feel like you will be going faster but don't be fooled. Ever watch sail races with the crew hanging on the hihh side w/feet dangling. This is done for the same reason.
I find with my c30 1980 vintage std. rig, 155 head & roached mainsail, that inside of 40 deg on a close haul I start to depower with my sail plan. Making good speed windward, 60-65 deg. is comfortable and the speed is optimal with very little hael in light to medium conditions. Remember the winner in a sailboat race is the boat that sails the shortest course, not necessarily the fastest. Running downwind I find that running 15-20 degrees off 180 for me works well. Running dead 180 in medium conditions 3-5 ft. sees with the fin keel shape can cause bow lurch side to side with a big head sail and or spinaker. Any questions give ma a shout...........
captnron
here are the polars:
Performance of your C30 consists of many factors. Velocity Prediction Programs (VPPs) and their Polar Diagrams indicate your target speeds and angles for best sailing in many wind conditions.
Polar Chart for C30 TRBS Owners have questioned the optimum run angle for best VMG to a down wind mark. Here are the polar numbers for a C30 Tall, ( w/ folding prop and standard keel) . Below are 6 wind speeds and associated vmg and run angles:
WIND VMG ANGLE (optimum)
6 3.194 143
8 4.055 145
10 4.862 158
12 5.588 166
16 6.517 174
20 7.158 175
Also you want to remember that altough a hard heel when going windward may be exhilerating, but you will have more hull area in the water hence more drag. It may feel like you will be going faster but don't be fooled. Ever watch sail races with the crew hanging on the hihh side w/feet dangling. This is done for the same reason.
I find with my c30 1980 vintage std. rig, 155 head & roached mainsail, that inside of 40 deg on a close haul I start to depower with my sail plan. Making good speed windward, 60-65 deg. is comfortable and the speed is optimal with very little hael in light to medium conditions. Remember the winner in a sailboat race is the boat that sails the shortest course, not necessarily the fastest. Running downwind I find that running 15-20 degrees off 180 for me works well. Running dead 180 in medium conditions 3-5 ft. sees with the fin keel shape can cause bow lurch side to side with a big head sail and or spinaker. Any questions give ma a shout...........
captnron
Thanks Captnron
Thank you for your easy to understand reply. I to am a novice sailor and don't understand half of what I read, that's why I turn to sites like this for help. I enjoy and understand a lot of your comments and really appreciate your personal evaluations along with technical in site
Thank you for your easy to understand reply. I to am a novice sailor and don't understand half of what I read, that's why I turn to sites like this for help. I enjoy and understand a lot of your comments and really appreciate your personal evaluations along with technical in site
J,
Over the years, i've given lessons to new sailors to the sport.
One thing I give them right away is a page from Chapman Piloting. I print it and set in protective plastic so they can have it in the cockpit for reference.
It shows approximate sail shapes in a 360 degree layout. I let them know that this is just representative as all sail plans are different and performance varies. But this is good for starting out. Master this theory and everything else for sail trim is just fine-tuning. I have it attached........
C' ron
Over the years, i've given lessons to new sailors to the sport.
One thing I give them right away is a page from Chapman Piloting. I print it and set in protective plastic so they can have it in the cockpit for reference.
It shows approximate sail shapes in a 360 degree layout. I let them know that this is just representative as all sail plans are different and performance varies. But this is good for starting out. Master this theory and everything else for sail trim is just fine-tuning. I have it attached........
C' ron
Attachments
Jeffrey: As Stu has indicated your best heel angle is around 15 degrees and here's why. Your boat is powered by lift and lift is generated by 3 elements on your boat - the sails, the rudder and the keel. While it might look trick to see boats heeled over to such an extent that you can see almost all the way to the bottom of their keels they are actually losing the lift generated by the keel. When you see 3 or 4 boats racing along together heeled way over they look like they are going fast because they are all heeled over. In a head to head situation the boat with less heel will beat the heeled over boat every time.
On your rudder - a lot of sailors prefer a neutral rudder. This is not a good idea because a neutral rudder produces reduced lift. What you want to do is once you get your boat zipping along at a good pace then just induce about 5 degrees of angle on the rudder. The increase in speed won't break the land/sea speed record but the boat speed will pick up a small bit. The main point is you boat is now at 100% effeciency as you are producing lift from the 3 elements. She'll give you all she's got and she will love you!!
On your rudder - a lot of sailors prefer a neutral rudder. This is not a good idea because a neutral rudder produces reduced lift. What you want to do is once you get your boat zipping along at a good pace then just induce about 5 degrees of angle on the rudder. The increase in speed won't break the land/sea speed record but the boat speed will pick up a small bit. The main point is you boat is now at 100% effeciency as you are producing lift from the 3 elements. She'll give you all she's got and she will love you!!
I hate to disagree with you Don, but less heel is not always faster. For sure too much heel is bad, but to get the best speed you have to know how much is too much.
The published numbers from generic polars in the 1980's and 90's are of limited value.
Since the question was "recently purchased catalina 30 tall rig. will start racing. what is the correct angle of heel for best speed?" The best way to get the answer is to spend the money to buy the polars for that boat.
The Velocity Prediction Programs show heel at best speed at every sailing angle.
If you are power reaching in 16 knots of breeze and depower your sails to keep heel around 15 degrees on a C30, all you will see is transom of a properly trimmed boat powered up and sailing at 20 degrees heel.
These numbers are for my boat and 800-1200 pounds crew. (Std Rig w/bow sprit, Fin Keel) They will not apply directly to a Tall Rig or a TRBS.
Heel at best VMG upwind:
6 = 4.6 deg
8 = 10.6 deg
10 = 14.3 deg
12 = 16.5 deg
16 = 19.7 deg
20 = 21.2 deg
Heel at highest polar speed:
TWS TWA Speed Heel
6 94.0 5.65 5.0
8 94.0 6.33 10.1
10 94.0 6.72 16.3
12 101.0 6.99 18.6
16 114.0 7.44 20.4
20 124.0 7.88 21.8
When sailing closer to the wind than the above angles, the VPP shows that the highest boat speeds require that the sails get flattened and de-powered at about 23 deg of heel for my C30.
While "around 15 degrees" might work if you never sail in breeze over 10 knots, it is a bit misleading if you are looking for best performance (racing).
However, holding the boat to around 15 degrees gets you most of the speed and much happier crew when out sailing for fun! I have a fun sailing sail selection chart made up where speed vs heel is plotted. The spinnaker stays below if it will increase the heel dramatically for small gains in speed. When racing the spinnaker goes up at any angle where it is even a little bit faster ... crew can hike.
Randy
Re: Thanks Captnron
Don,
welcome to the field, or should i say nightmare. Just kidding. Anyone can turn a key and DRIVE a powerboat, but it takes a different breed to sail.
It's said that conversation is BETTER on a sailboat. Plus there's soo much more that you see & relish. Been doing this for awile now. If you have any questions and would prefer a quicker reply my direct email address is:
captnron@tampabay.rr.com>
Welcome to the the world of sailing. It hope you find it fulfilling!
C'ron
Don,
welcome to the field, or should i say nightmare. Just kidding. Anyone can turn a key and DRIVE a powerboat, but it takes a different breed to sail.
It's said that conversation is BETTER on a sailboat. Plus there's soo much more that you see & relish. Been doing this for awile now. If you have any questions and would prefer a quicker reply my direct email address is:
captnron@tampabay.rr.com>
Welcome to the the world of sailing. It hope you find it fulfilling!
C'ron
Moody Buccaner: I hate to disagree with you but here’s the situation. Jeffrey just purchased a C30 and wants to start racing and he is asking a simple question about heel angle. I don’t know what his sailing level of experience is but I assume from his question he might be high beginner. Your suggestion that he spend the money to buy polars or a velocity prediction program for his boat puts the cart before the horse. Maybe I’m wrong but I think he probably has no idea what you are talking about - Jeffrey, correct me if I’m wrong with that assumption. You are way above his level of experience. In order to get the full effect from polars, velocity prediction programs, vmg or what ever else is out there, your sail trim for your main and jib has to be spot on or they are a joke. Polars with crappy sail trim is like running a 4 barrel carb on 2 barrels. What Jeffrey or any other beginner to intermediate needs to do is learn to trim his main and jib for 100% efficiency and then he can worry about polars etc. In the mean time he should try to limit his heel angle to around 15 degrees assuming he knows how to accomplish that.
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