Opinions on “best” outboard motor brand

[colemj]

Another consideration is weight. Some 15 and 20s share the same block, some 20 and 25 share the same block. I would ALWAYS prefer getting the higher HP version of a block, otherwise you're carrying useless excess weight.

Suzuki's 9.9, 15, and 20hp share the same engine. The only difference is the programming inside the identical computers, which controls fuel injection and top rpm. It surprises me that anyone buys a Suzuki 9.9, because it is by far the heaviest 9.9 made. I've never seen one, so can only guess that the market for them are fishing boats that want EFI engines on inland lakes with HP limits.

I'd disagree that quality isn't like it was 20yrs ago. EFI in these small outboards has changed everything, so it is apples to oranges there, and Honda still makes the same engine they did 20yrs ago. We abused our Suzuki EFI 20hp for 9 yrs doing absolutely nothing to it. It got a total of 2 engine oil changes and 1 gear oil change in that 9yrs, and the gear oil and one of the oil changes was at the 20hr break-in interval. Original impeller, no greasing, nothing. After 9yrs, the fuel pump failed. Changing it was just a matter of undoing the one bolt in its external bracket, unclipping the two hose clamps, and putting the new one on. 5 minutes top. Meanwhile, all of our newer carbed 2-stroke and 1990's engine friends are constantly working on theirs (carbs seem to be a particular problem nowadays).

Mark

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Tohatsu and Nissan are the same motors. They did away with the Nissan brand some years ago and now call them all Tohatsu. Having been a Tohatsu dealer for many years (and hence a Nissan dealer), I have sold many and purchased some for my personal use. I've never been disappointed. For sailboats, Tohatsu was a favorite because their outboards were lighter than the competition's and sailors like light. As stated above, most of the brand names are good engines and you cannot go wrong. One thing to consider is to buy an outboard locally where they can be serviced. No sense buying an outboard from somewhere else only to find there is no nearby dealer to fix it, if need be, or get parts. It is right that Tohatsu builds some of the Mercury outboards.
The comment about manufacturer's pushing out the small business dealer is somewhat true. Yamaha, for example, won't sign up a dealer unless they also sell boats to put the outboard on. Also, a dealership has to have a service department or you cannot get a dealership. With Tohatsu we were always obligated to test the outboard before they went out the door (and they were supposedly tested before they left the factory), and also obligated to rig the boat rather than selling a larger motor to be installed by the boat owner himself.

 

[colemj]

Regarding buying from a local dealer, or choosing a brand by where parts are available, this depends on how one is boating. For example, we cruise widely, and I long ago gave up on worrying about such things because they change every time we sail someplace new.

Even if you did live and boat solely where a single brand of dealership exists, it doesn't mean they will have parts for your engine. Sure, filters, gaskets, and some common stuff, but nowadays most parts are drop-shipped as needed, and not stocked as inventory. This makes ordering a part just as easy for one to do personally as going through the dealer. For example, Guatemala and Panama both have Suzuki dealerships, but most parts are drop-shipped. I've ordered parts from the US to both countries and had them in hand in the same amount of time, but less expensive, than going through the dealership.

For servicing, these new EFI outboards are almost immune to needing servicing. We ran the crap out of our last one, never did oil changes or any of the service interval stuff, and after 9yrs, it needed a fuel pump, which was a plug and play thing. It was running perfectly when we sold it, and I suspect it still is. Our current one is only 3yrs old, but I expect the same. The people we meet cruising with these engines have the same experience as us wrt reliability and needing service.

If they do need fixing, it is a different matter with these engines. First, they actually tell you what is wrong with them. Seriously, I have a cable for it that plugs into my laptop and the engine tells me everything it has done in its life, as well as what is wrong and what parts have been showing intermittent issues even though they have not yet failed. The design of them is one where discreet components are plugged together, so fixing something broken mostly involves unplugging a component and plugging a new one in. The above is the exact same way a dealer or trained mechanic fixes them. Sure, inside are the normal pistons and cams and valves and such, but how many times with old type motors were those the issue? Reed valves and carburetors, and flywheel ignition, and the like are long gone on these engines, thus those common problems are gone too. So the need for a trained mechanic is much less than it was in the past.

Mark

 

[sesmith]

I'm surprised there's no talk of electric (other than my possibly less than helpful post earlier). That said, it's not just Torqeedo or trolling anymore. I was surprised what has changed in the electric market in the last few years when I checked into it. I guess you would have to determine if 20hp is really needed and whether you really need to be able to plane the dinghy. Also need to think of charging. If not at a slip can you make it work with your existing solar or generator.

For me and my use it's a no brainer. No maintenance, no winterizing, easy on and off, no start issues, not having to carry gas or propane, and it's faster than rowing. Down side is likely cost and, in many cases, proprietary batteries.

A video that shows some of the newer players in the market:

 

[dLj]

I'm surprised there's no talk of electric (other than my possibly less than helpful post earlier). That said, it's not just Torqeedo or trolling anymore. I was surprised what has changed in the electric market in the last few years when I checked into it. I guess you would have to determine if 20hp is really needed and whether you really need to be able to plane the dinghy. Also need to think of charging. If not at a slip can you make it work with your existing solar or generator.

For me and my use it's a no brainer. No maintenance, no winterizing, easy on and off, no start issues, not having to carry gas or propane, and it's faster than rowing. Down side is likely cost and, in many cases, proprietary batteries.

A video that shows some of the newer players in the market:

It's been my understanding that the "no maintenance" is not exactly correct. I have no experience with electric outboards but have thought about getting one. Since they are undergoing a significant growth period at the moment I figured I'd wait a couple more years and see how things shake out. There was a thread recently about electric outboards on Cruisers and sailors and it wasn't all glowing reviews. Additionally, the price is still pretty high from what I have seen. Certainly an area to keep an eye on.

dj

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I got a $250 rebate check when I bought my 4 HP Merc. Defender had free shipping & it was delivered to my door a day after ordering. These factors made the Merc the most economical.

Aside from adding a bit too much oil during my initial start-up (going over the oil fill line prevented it from starting) I have had good performance. I had to drain a bit of oil and the fill line seemed to be very sensitive to the tilt of the engine (the shaft needed to be perfectly vertical) when viewing thru the little window.

 

[pgandw]

It's been my understanding that the "no maintenance" is not exactly correct. I have no experience with electric outboards but have thought about getting one. Since they are undergoing a significant growth period at the moment I figured I'd wait a couple more years and see how things shake out. There was a thread recently about electric outboards on Cruisers and sailors and it wasn't all glowing reviews. Additionally, the price is still pretty high from what I have seen. Certainly an area to keep an eye on.

My experience (and a few other sailors I know who use them) with electric outboards has been essentially maintenance-free, especially in comparison to the gas outboard auxiliaries I have owned, and the 115HP Suzuki I have on my center console. The Honda 5hp had to have the carb cleaned annually, and still wasn't a guaranteed starter. The Suzuki 115hp runs really well IF I keep Stabil in the non-ethanol gas, and run it a full throttle for a few minutes every month. Suzuki requires an annual servicing (oil changes and inspections) to keep warranty in effect at $200 per.

The Epropulsion Spirit (3hp equivalent) has saved sailing for me. My shoulder should last me the rest of my life, unlike with the Honda (both starting and lifting motor on/off boat). Battery maintenance involves plugging into charger night before each sail. If I went below 60% on a sailing trip, I recharge the battery upon return, otherwise not. Battery BMS gradually drops battery to 70% after 2 weeks of non-use. Yes, I am supposed to change the zincs annually, but I see maybe 10hrs/year in salt water, and double that in fresh water. No erosion of the zincs observed. Because of the quiet and ease of starting I use the Spirit electric a lot more than I did the Honda. Want to motorsail - just lower the motor and turn it on. Too lazy or calm to raise sails, just turn on the motor and enjoy the peace - quieter than sailing.

I do think earlier Torqueedos had some maintenance issues. But competition has forced Torqueedo to significantly improve its product.

The expense of the electric outboard is the battery - the motor costs less than a gas outboard of the same power. Just like electric cars, you want more range, you pay more money for a bigger battery. If you can use stock LiFePO batteries with your electric outboard, the battery can be quite a bit cheaper than the factory battery (not all electric outboards can use 3rd party batteries).

Fred W
Stuart Mariner 19 #4133 Sweet P

 

[dLj]

My experience (and a few other sailors I know who use them) with electric outboards has been essentially maintenance-free, especially in comparison to the gas outboard auxiliaries I have owned, and the 115HP Suzuki I have on my center console. The Honda 5hp had to have the carb cleaned annually, and still wasn't a guaranteed starter. The Suzuki 115hp runs really well IF I keep Stabil in the non-ethanol gas, and run it a full throttle for a few minutes every month. Suzuki requires an annual servicing (oil changes and inspections) to keep warranty in effect at $200 per.

The Epropulsion Spirit (3hp equivalent) has saved sailing for me. My shoulder should last me the rest of my life, unlike with the Honda (both starting and lifting motor on/off boat). Battery maintenance involves plugging into charger night before each sail. If I went below 60% on a sailing trip, I recharge the battery upon return, otherwise not. Battery BMS gradually drops battery to 70% after 2 weeks of non-use. Yes, I am supposed to change the zincs annually, but I see maybe 10hrs/year in salt water, and double that in fresh water. No erosion of the zincs observed. Because of the quiet and ease of starting I use the Spirit electric a lot more than I did the Honda. Want to motorsail - just lower the motor and turn it on. Too lazy or calm to raise sails, just turn on the motor and enjoy the peace - quieter than sailing.

I do think earlier Torqueedos had some maintenance issues. But competition has forced Torqueedo to significantly improve its product.

The expense of the electric outboard is the battery - the motor costs less than a gas outboard of the same power. Just like electric cars, you want more range, you pay more money for a bigger battery. If you can use stock LiFePO batteries with your electric outboard, the battery can be quite a bit cheaper than the factory battery (not all electric outboards can use 3rd party batteries).

Fred W
Stuart Mariner 19 #4133 Sweet P

This seems to be in keeping with the thread I talked about above on Cruisers and Sailors forum where there were a number of folks posting how they had no maintenance issues, speaking glowingly of these electric motors and then others that said they had had numerous problems. It was probably about a 50/50 split.

I have no direct knowledge as I've only ever owned gasoline outboards - from the old original British Seagull, to a 2 cycle mercury, to a small Suzuki and a larger Honda. All of these have worked very well for me, well, perhaps the British Seagull might not quite get into that category although the one I owned seemed to work better than many.

I do find the cost of the Torqueedo to be substantially higher then I'd like. I don't like the proprietary battery. Several folks posting had said the electronic control system just crapped out and it cost a fair bit of $'s to fix.

There were some seal problems reported, I don't recall on what models.

I'm really just keeping my ears and eyes open on these as I do think they will become quite good. Not so sure if they are there yet....

dj

 

[DArcy]

Rather than develop a line of small electric outboards, Yamaha bought Torqeedo in April last year. Yamaha has always strived to provide good quality so maybe this will improve the reliability of Torqeedo motors. They are expensive however. I looked at a few of the electric outboards at the Toronto Boat show. Mercury and Torqeedo are up there in pricing.

A new one I saw was Wolong Flowstar which is about half the price of the Mercury Avator 75, and double the power. I have no idea about reliability, and the battery capacity is slightly lower, but the display did appear to have some useful information. Buy a second battery then you have one to use, one to charge and it would still be cheaper.

Electric Boat-Wolong

Electric Boat

en.wolong.com.cn

 

[colemj]

The OP required a 20hp engine. These do exist in electric format, but they also require a minimum of 10kWh 48V battery and a basic system monitor. This puts them around $10k, and 100lbs heavier overall than a gasoline engine. I don't know the range on the 10kWh battery, but it would require ~10hrs on a charger to recharge.

Mark

 

[colemj]

Missed it in the spec for the Elco 20hp - operating at 2/3 throttle will give ~1.5hrs of use with the recommended size battery. So 10hrs of charging for every 1.5hrs of use.

Mark

 

[pgandw]

Agreed that a 20hp electric outboard is not in the current sweet spot for electrics, due to battery energy storage being a lot less efficient than storing energy in liquid gas/diesel format. Up to about 5-6hp, electric outboards offer some serious advantages and disadvantages over their gas counterparts. To the point where the small gas outboards that do not use 3+gal external fuel tanks are being elbowed aside by the electrics.

As an interesting aside, railroads, ocean-going tugs, and ice breakers all find the diesel-electric format more effective and efficient than a pure diesel drive.

Fred W

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

The OP required a 20hp engine. These do exist in electric format, but they also require a minimum of 10kWh 48V battery and a basic system monitor. This puts them around $10k, and 100lbs heavier overall than a gasoline engine. I don't know the range on the 10kWh battery, but it would require ~10hrs on a charger to recharge.

Mark

Guess my original question was vague in the sense of what I should buy. While the current kicker is 20 hp, I don’t necessarily need another of that size. Anything approximating would suffice.

Appreciate the replies. The available brands are limited here. Will probably do some shopping in FLL next month. They have a much wider variety of brands and sizes.

 

[colemj]

The available brands are limited here. Will probably do some shopping in FLL next month. They have a much wider variety of brands and sizes.

Why limit yourself to what is available locally? Outboard Motors | Tohatsu, Suzuki, Mercury, & Honda Outboards ships free in the US and usually has the best prices. But I don't think they sell Yamaha.

Mark