This fella posted looking for advice on Cal vs Hunter vs Catalina The message is on Sailnet the link is below. He is not getting many responses...........Can you help ? We wouldn't want him to go down with the ship.......... http://www.sailnet.com/forums/buying-boat/17389-cal-vs-catalina-vs-hunter-etc.html
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Huntin to Cal the Cat...
Chuck, I can only give my opinion and like ***hole everyones got 'un ya'll... Cal is a good less expensive cruising boat, a Hunter is an eye-pleasing and comfortable 'cocktail yacht' and they sail reasonably well too. Catalina has been around a long time, last I heeerd they was in business still, and have a very good reputation all round and hold their value too.
Chuck, I can only give my opinion and like ***hole everyones got 'un ya'll... Cal is a good less expensive cruising boat, a Hunter is an eye-pleasing and comfortable 'cocktail yacht' and they sail reasonably well too. Catalina has been around a long time, last I heeerd they was in business still, and have a very good reputation all round and hold their value too.
cal v. etc
The older catalina 38 is a good boat. The rest of the catalinas are pretty much crap. cheaply built, insides look like a motor home. hunters are even flimsier. the cals were all built really solid and didn't scrimp on materials. they can still sail faster than comparable hunters and catalinas. i saw a catalina 36, newer one, that had run into a cement piling. the whole bow was crunched in and I got a look at the fiberglass. No B.S. it was literally about 1/4 inch thick. in the "weak" parts of my cal the glass is about 3/4 inch thick and in the bow its probably a couple of inches.
The older catalina 38 is a good boat. The rest of the catalinas are pretty much crap. cheaply built, insides look like a motor home. hunters are even flimsier. the cals were all built really solid and didn't scrimp on materials. they can still sail faster than comparable hunters and catalinas. i saw a catalina 36, newer one, that had run into a cement piling. the whole bow was crunched in and I got a look at the fiberglass. No B.S. it was literally about 1/4 inch thick. in the "weak" parts of my cal the glass is about 3/4 inch thick and in the bow its probably a couple of inches.
Cal's a wasting asset
Since there are no new Cal's any more, they are all used boats, so the first factor you're considering is that Catalina and Hunter continue to have new boats all the time and some of their used boats will always be newer than any Cal's. The newest Catalina's and Hunter's incorporate fresh ideas you will never see in your older Cal. Another factor to consider is that there are at least 2 flavors of Cal's: the original Lapworth-designed series and the later Hunt-designed series (the 28-2 and 33-2). The Lapworth boats were available in a wider range of sizes over a longer period of time, making generalization pretty difficult. And on top of that, the couple on the Sailnet forum didn't give any indication what size they were looking for--if they want smaller boats they're only looking at the Lapworth Cals. I have to take exception with some of Jigs' comments here. I've put a lot of working time on my Cal 28-2 and I can tell you there are no "several inches" of fiberglass in the nose of the Hunt Cal's, nor are our hulls as much as 3/4" thick, though I think they are well made. I've owned a Catalina 25 and spent a lot of time shopping older Catalina's and Hunters before settling on my 1987 Hunt Cal 28; I can tell you that the models are all of comparable quality and each has its virtues and vices. If you think a Hunt 33-2 is so much better made than a Catalina then you just haven't had reason yet (but eventually will) to pull up some of that awful hull carpeting or try to stop a dorade box leak. If the Sailnet Couple wants an affordable keelboat in the under-28' range they will get their best price and options on one of the 6500 Catalina 25's that are out there; there are also lots of Hunters in the same size range and Catalina 22's. If they can afford new, then they won't even be looking at any Cal. Though the Hunt Cal's are in newer condition than the Lapworth Cal's, there are some built-in age issues like hull carpeting, hatch replacement, etc., that seem to be less of an issue in comparable Catalina's and Hunters. The Catalina's and Hunters will go for slightly higher prices, giving you some cost for condition tradeoffs. But only when price is the overriding issue will the Cal's really look good to our boat-shopping couple.
Since there are no new Cal's any more, they are all used boats, so the first factor you're considering is that Catalina and Hunter continue to have new boats all the time and some of their used boats will always be newer than any Cal's. The newest Catalina's and Hunter's incorporate fresh ideas you will never see in your older Cal. Another factor to consider is that there are at least 2 flavors of Cal's: the original Lapworth-designed series and the later Hunt-designed series (the 28-2 and 33-2). The Lapworth boats were available in a wider range of sizes over a longer period of time, making generalization pretty difficult. And on top of that, the couple on the Sailnet forum didn't give any indication what size they were looking for--if they want smaller boats they're only looking at the Lapworth Cals. I have to take exception with some of Jigs' comments here. I've put a lot of working time on my Cal 28-2 and I can tell you there are no "several inches" of fiberglass in the nose of the Hunt Cal's, nor are our hulls as much as 3/4" thick, though I think they are well made. I've owned a Catalina 25 and spent a lot of time shopping older Catalina's and Hunters before settling on my 1987 Hunt Cal 28; I can tell you that the models are all of comparable quality and each has its virtues and vices. If you think a Hunt 33-2 is so much better made than a Catalina then you just haven't had reason yet (but eventually will) to pull up some of that awful hull carpeting or try to stop a dorade box leak. If the Sailnet Couple wants an affordable keelboat in the under-28' range they will get their best price and options on one of the 6500 Catalina 25's that are out there; there are also lots of Hunters in the same size range and Catalina 22's. If they can afford new, then they won't even be looking at any Cal. Though the Hunt Cal's are in newer condition than the Lapworth Cal's, there are some built-in age issues like hull carpeting, hatch replacement, etc., that seem to be less of an issue in comparable Catalina's and Hunters. The Catalina's and Hunters will go for slightly higher prices, giving you some cost for condition tradeoffs. But only when price is the overriding issue will the Cal's really look good to our boat-shopping couple.
Convinced me!
Wow Rich, you know what you're talking about. I always liked Cals, but you have a strong point there, and a Catalina 'looks' better. I had some really good trips on Hunters and they usually have Yanmars that are reliable, but the hull is as thin as a J-24 and I wouldn't have much against them (in fact I had a 25 given to me that I re-rigged and sold, quite roomy too) except that I had the keel separate from the stubbie on a Hunter Passage 450 (45ft with lots of other problems too). Methinks that one kinda prejudiced me...;-)
Wow Rich, you know what you're talking about. I always liked Cals, but you have a strong point there, and a Catalina 'looks' better. I had some really good trips on Hunters and they usually have Yanmars that are reliable, but the hull is as thin as a J-24 and I wouldn't have much against them (in fact I had a 25 given to me that I re-rigged and sold, quite roomy too) except that I had the keel separate from the stubbie on a Hunter Passage 450 (45ft with lots of other problems too). Methinks that one kinda prejudiced me...;-)
Fun factor
Ron, along those lines whenever I go to the boat shows I notice the new Catalinas more than any other brand seem to have the cockpits that I would describe as being "fun" to be in. I'm thinking used Catalina's in all sizes from the '90's up are going to seem the most modern and make you feel good about your purchase...
Ron, along those lines whenever I go to the boat shows I notice the new Catalinas more than any other brand seem to have the cockpits that I would describe as being "fun" to be in. I'm thinking used Catalina's in all sizes from the '90's up are going to seem the most modern and make you feel good about your purchase...
Cals
Cals are still winning and doing quite well in many races such as the Transpac and Newport to Bermuda. I may be wrong, but I never saw a Cat or Hunter win one of those races. Also, the boat must be a good design, otherwise why would serious sailers still seek Cal 40's? Bill Lapworth designed a boat that still sails with the best of them. My 1977 Cal 34 III will flat out beat Cats and Hunters of similar size.....age has no bearing. Obviously not all as sailing ability has a ton to do with it. But my point is they are not slugs.... Yes they are old boats and not in production, however they are a great design (pre Hunt days)and a great boat. Like all boats, do they have their little problems....yes indeed they do. However, if you are looking for price value, you can ugrade any older boat to reflect modern ammenities. As long as you have a good hull and deck to work with. If you want to learn more about the Cals, there are people on the Yahoo list that were engineers with Bill lapworth and help build the boats. They can give a better, more technical opinion than a simple sailer like myself.
Cals are still winning and doing quite well in many races such as the Transpac and Newport to Bermuda. I may be wrong, but I never saw a Cat or Hunter win one of those races. Also, the boat must be a good design, otherwise why would serious sailers still seek Cal 40's? Bill Lapworth designed a boat that still sails with the best of them. My 1977 Cal 34 III will flat out beat Cats and Hunters of similar size.....age has no bearing. Obviously not all as sailing ability has a ton to do with it. But my point is they are not slugs.... Yes they are old boats and not in production, however they are a great design (pre Hunt days)and a great boat. Like all boats, do they have their little problems....yes indeed they do. However, if you are looking for price value, you can ugrade any older boat to reflect modern ammenities. As long as you have a good hull and deck to work with. If you want to learn more about the Cals, there are people on the Yahoo list that were engineers with Bill lapworth and help build the boats. They can give a better, more technical opinion than a simple sailer like myself.
cals v etc
Rich--I don't know much about the hull thickness on the 28, but my Lapworth cal 39 is built like a brick shit house. On any decent boat the bow is going to have much thicker fiberglass. Usually, at least in the old days, they really beefed it up there. That's so if you run into the dock you won't have major structural damage. I was really surprised to see how thin it was on the catalina. I'm not giving you any b.s. it couldn't have been more than a quarter inch thick or so and the damage was pretty extensive. As for sailing ability, I just sailed back from catalina island in 15-20 knots of wind and literally walked by a catalina 42 and a beneteau 39. In fact, when we take her out, we can usually catch up with just about any sail we see off in the distance. We routinely pass larger catalinas, hunters, etc. I think a cal of any size can still be competetive with any of the newer boats these days. Awhile back I had a real hard time catching up with one boat, turned out is was a Cal 29 !! Fast little mother!! As for all the "neat" features on the newer boats, they don't mean a thing when you are offshore in a good blow, but they help sell boats at boat shows.
Rich--I don't know much about the hull thickness on the 28, but my Lapworth cal 39 is built like a brick shit house. On any decent boat the bow is going to have much thicker fiberglass. Usually, at least in the old days, they really beefed it up there. That's so if you run into the dock you won't have major structural damage. I was really surprised to see how thin it was on the catalina. I'm not giving you any b.s. it couldn't have been more than a quarter inch thick or so and the damage was pretty extensive. As for sailing ability, I just sailed back from catalina island in 15-20 knots of wind and literally walked by a catalina 42 and a beneteau 39. In fact, when we take her out, we can usually catch up with just about any sail we see off in the distance. We routinely pass larger catalinas, hunters, etc. I think a cal of any size can still be competetive with any of the newer boats these days. Awhile back I had a real hard time catching up with one boat, turned out is was a Cal 29 !! Fast little mother!! As for all the "neat" features on the newer boats, they don't mean a thing when you are offshore in a good blow, but they help sell boats at boat shows.
Lapworths are different
Sorry Jigs, I assumed you were talking about the Hunt Cal's because the dumb software on this forum inserts "33-2" under your name when you respond to a topic that someone started as a "33-2" topic. I have no trouble imagining the Lapworth Cal's would have thick hulls because the first Lapworth boats were made in the era when thick was standard to manufacturing fiberglass boats. You're not going to find that with other makes and models from the late '70's forward, because the industry had to cut costs somewhere. It isn't that Catalina's are bad, it's that your boat is an early type from the "thick-hull" era. The early Lapworths were all legendary designs and if someone were looking for a classic to fix up, they would be good candidates: but again, we don't know whether our subject couple are looking for new boats, old boats, cheap boats, turnkey-clean boats, etc., so it's kind of hard to give useful generalizations for them...
Sorry Jigs, I assumed you were talking about the Hunt Cal's because the dumb software on this forum inserts "33-2" under your name when you respond to a topic that someone started as a "33-2" topic. I have no trouble imagining the Lapworth Cal's would have thick hulls because the first Lapworth boats were made in the era when thick was standard to manufacturing fiberglass boats. You're not going to find that with other makes and models from the late '70's forward, because the industry had to cut costs somewhere. It isn't that Catalina's are bad, it's that your boat is an early type from the "thick-hull" era. The early Lapworths were all legendary designs and if someone were looking for a classic to fix up, they would be good candidates: but again, we don't know whether our subject couple are looking for new boats, old boats, cheap boats, turnkey-clean boats, etc., so it's kind of hard to give useful generalizations for them...
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