A recent post comparing the Rhodes 22 and H23 inspired some thoughts after reading a comment by Frank Ladd stating, "Coastal cruising is a lot more about planning what to do when the weather goes bad than what type of boat you have." I firmly agree in theory with Frank's statement but have not put my skills or the H23 to the open water test as of yet. With cabin fever on the rise and dreams of cruising to Block Island this season I begin to contemplate what it might take to accomplish this benchmark in my cruising career. To get there and back safe and sound will require planning, as so eloquently stated in the above quotes, but I have concerns as to how well a 23 footer or equivalent will handle weather on the open ocean...not to mention covering all the contingencies associated with a cruise of this nature. So I was wondering if anyone wanted to start a thread on their experiences with pocket cruisers on open water and share some learned lessons that could aid me and anyone else who wants to take the next step... I'm looking forward to your responses and thanks in advance Brian Conneely H23 Kickin Back'
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Question for Brian...re Fulton motor mount
Last year you mentioned a wedge you had found to fit between the Fulton motor mount and the H23 reverse transom. Could you provide some details? I'm about to buy one of these mounts. Also, which mount did you get...the 10 hp or 20 hp? They both weigh the same and provide 14 inches of travel, but for $10 more the 20 hp mount is sturdier (less flex under load) and has larger springs (easier to raise motor). I have an 8 hp Nissan, which is pretty light but it also has plenty of grunt and I'm thinking about those times when I have to motor hard in rough seas. Thanks in advance. Peter H23 "Raven"
Last year you mentioned a wedge you had found to fit between the Fulton motor mount and the H23 reverse transom. Could you provide some details? I'm about to buy one of these mounts. Also, which mount did you get...the 10 hp or 20 hp? They both weigh the same and provide 14 inches of travel, but for $10 more the 20 hp mount is sturdier (less flex under load) and has larger springs (easier to raise motor). I have an 8 hp Nissan, which is pretty light but it also has plenty of grunt and I'm thinking about those times when I have to motor hard in rough seas. Thanks in advance. Peter H23 "Raven"
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Brian
peter, I'll check on that
I don't remember the name of the manufacturer (could have been fulton) but I will pay a visit to the marine supplier who ordered it for me this weekend to get you those details. It worked great, no fabrication of parts (just some minor machining to get the perfect fit; I can show you what I mean with a pic)and it looks and feels even stronger with the bracket assembly. Also I would go with the one rated for the 20hp for reasons you already know. The only negative detail I have with the adjustable mount is that it has lateral weakness in that it will rock slightly from side to side...but doesn't hinder performance. BTW Peter, where exactly do you sail? I remember reading about you in FL waters...any experience in the Atlantic? I'll be in Stuart next weekend for some golf and possibly a sail if there's time...but was interested to read in this months Sail Mag about the canal system that links Stuart to Lake Okeechobee and then on to the Gulf. Do you know anything else about this sailing community? Brian Conneely H23 kickin' back
I don't remember the name of the manufacturer (could have been fulton) but I will pay a visit to the marine supplier who ordered it for me this weekend to get you those details. It worked great, no fabrication of parts (just some minor machining to get the perfect fit; I can show you what I mean with a pic)and it looks and feels even stronger with the bracket assembly. Also I would go with the one rated for the 20hp for reasons you already know. The only negative detail I have with the adjustable mount is that it has lateral weakness in that it will rock slightly from side to side...but doesn't hinder performance. BTW Peter, where exactly do you sail? I remember reading about you in FL waters...any experience in the Atlantic? I'll be in Stuart next weekend for some golf and possibly a sail if there's time...but was interested to read in this months Sail Mag about the canal system that links Stuart to Lake Okeechobee and then on to the Gulf. Do you know anything else about this sailing community? Brian Conneely H23 kickin' back
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Carl
Open water
Brian, I do most of my sailing out of Hillsboro inlet but also sail out of Boca inlet as well as Port Everglades. Most of the time the roughest part of the trip is going in and out of the inlet. The races do not always coincide with incoming tides and west winds, so I have on occasion had a foot of water come over the deck. These things can be handled with a little bit of preperation and alot of determination. It's important to have some knowledge of the area you will sail, so prepare your boat and your mind, then have fun. Carl & Suzi h240 Relentless
Brian, I do most of my sailing out of Hillsboro inlet but also sail out of Boca inlet as well as Port Everglades. Most of the time the roughest part of the trip is going in and out of the inlet. The races do not always coincide with incoming tides and west winds, so I have on occasion had a foot of water come over the deck. These things can be handled with a little bit of preperation and alot of determination. It's important to have some knowledge of the area you will sail, so prepare your boat and your mind, then have fun. Carl & Suzi h240 Relentless
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Mark Major
Offshore cruising
I have read here, and other places, the Hunter 23 isn't suitable for offshore cruising, proven by the technical aspects of it's design. Ignorant of this at first, I blissfully took mine all about, learning that "small craft advisory" meant ideal conditions for me in the Gulf of Mexico. Over the past 4-1/2 years I've sailed the Florida Gulf coast from Pensacola to the Keys (minus the stretch from New Port Richey to St. Marks-I'll get that this year); along the Keys from Largo to Garden (the "Dry Tortugas"); and more, 95% of it single handed. On the Tortugas trip I was in 6-8' following seas, with a hand aboard, a storm jib up and surfing over 10 knots. My longest trip has been 10 nights. I've been damned lucky, my boat's been forgiving, and God has saved me from myself and sea. Planning for some of my trips has taken over a year from concept to completion. I study the charts, get local information before-hand, and have even driven the coastline to ports for information on my upcoming sail. No amount of experience prepares us for our next crisis, though, for things have happened I would have never imagined. A broken rudder housing, solar panel failure, and engine failure after three days all happened on my first offshore week. I wouldn't hesitate recommending day or overnight sails offshore to start out with. I carry extra water, two communication devices, first aid provisions and more than the minimum required safety equimpment aboard. Keep a log to record what works for you, and build from that. Fair Winds, Mark Major 86H23 Lesismor
I have read here, and other places, the Hunter 23 isn't suitable for offshore cruising, proven by the technical aspects of it's design. Ignorant of this at first, I blissfully took mine all about, learning that "small craft advisory" meant ideal conditions for me in the Gulf of Mexico. Over the past 4-1/2 years I've sailed the Florida Gulf coast from Pensacola to the Keys (minus the stretch from New Port Richey to St. Marks-I'll get that this year); along the Keys from Largo to Garden (the "Dry Tortugas"); and more, 95% of it single handed. On the Tortugas trip I was in 6-8' following seas, with a hand aboard, a storm jib up and surfing over 10 knots. My longest trip has been 10 nights. I've been damned lucky, my boat's been forgiving, and God has saved me from myself and sea. Planning for some of my trips has taken over a year from concept to completion. I study the charts, get local information before-hand, and have even driven the coastline to ports for information on my upcoming sail. No amount of experience prepares us for our next crisis, though, for things have happened I would have never imagined. A broken rudder housing, solar panel failure, and engine failure after three days all happened on my first offshore week. I wouldn't hesitate recommending day or overnight sails offshore to start out with. I carry extra water, two communication devices, first aid provisions and more than the minimum required safety equimpment aboard. Keep a log to record what works for you, and build from that. Fair Winds, Mark Major 86H23 Lesismor
More on motor mount & offshore sailing
After examining both Fulton mounts in the store, I got the 10 hp because it's identical to the 20 hp mount except for the spring. The 20 hp mount is rated for a much heavier motor (140 lb) than my 8 hp Nissan. I don't really feel like fighting the spring every time I want to get the motor down into the water. Besides, I'm right across the Indian River from Cape Canaveral (I have a clear view from the dock) so I might get in trouble with NASA if I got careless when lifting and the spring launched the outboard into orbit. I've done some offshore sailing but not in my boat. The inlets on Florida's Atlantic coast are few and far between and it takes the better part of a day to get to the closest one (Port Canaveral). Mark Major is probably your best bet. He's definitely got the experience, including a single-handed trip to the Dry Tortugas in an H23. I did that trip aboard a 46 ft Irwin ketch and it was no cakewalk. Peter H23 "Raven"
After examining both Fulton mounts in the store, I got the 10 hp because it's identical to the 20 hp mount except for the spring. The 20 hp mount is rated for a much heavier motor (140 lb) than my 8 hp Nissan. I don't really feel like fighting the spring every time I want to get the motor down into the water. Besides, I'm right across the Indian River from Cape Canaveral (I have a clear view from the dock) so I might get in trouble with NASA if I got careless when lifting and the spring launched the outboard into orbit. I've done some offshore sailing but not in my boat. The inlets on Florida's Atlantic coast are few and far between and it takes the better part of a day to get to the closest one (Port Canaveral). Mark Major is probably your best bet. He's definitely got the experience, including a single-handed trip to the Dry Tortugas in an H23. I did that trip aboard a 46 ft Irwin ketch and it was no cakewalk. Peter H23 "Raven"
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Rick Macdonald
Mark -
Mark - Just wondering if you are familiar with the differences between your H23 and the H23.5, and if so, if you feel that the H23.5 is just as suitable or capable as the H23 for doing all the same trips that your H23 has done?
Mark - Just wondering if you are familiar with the differences between your H23 and the H23.5, and if so, if you feel that the H23.5 is just as suitable or capable as the H23 for doing all the same trips that your H23 has done?
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Mark Major
Rick
I'm not familiar with the differences in design between the two models, but I don't see why you couldn't entertain teh prospect extended trips; just keep in mind these boats were designed for coastal sailing in light to moderate conditions, and prepare as best you can. Mark
I'm not familiar with the differences in design between the two models, but I don't see why you couldn't entertain teh prospect extended trips; just keep in mind these boats were designed for coastal sailing in light to moderate conditions, and prepare as best you can. Mark
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Brian Conneely
info for Peter...
Peter, I was able to get you some specific details for the adjustable angle bracket system (5 to 30 degrees) if you are still interested. The supplier of this product is the Lewis Marine Group. They have a number of locations but the clerk informed me that they have a headquarters in Ft. Lauderdale and that you can contact them to find the nearest dealer in your area (he didn't think you would be able to order from them direct but its worth a shot). Their number is 1-800-709-6143. The part number on the angle bracket is 71045 and should be referenced in their parts catalog with Figure 3864 (the figure number I believe is a subdirectory). Let me know if this lead goes anywhere. If not and you still want the part I can put you in contact with the store up by me...I will try to get to the boat today to take a quick pic of the set up to show you how it worked for me. In the mean time good luck and happy SuperBowl Brian H23 kickin' back
Peter, I was able to get you some specific details for the adjustable angle bracket system (5 to 30 degrees) if you are still interested. The supplier of this product is the Lewis Marine Group. They have a number of locations but the clerk informed me that they have a headquarters in Ft. Lauderdale and that you can contact them to find the nearest dealer in your area (he didn't think you would be able to order from them direct but its worth a shot). Their number is 1-800-709-6143. The part number on the angle bracket is 71045 and should be referenced in their parts catalog with Figure 3864 (the figure number I believe is a subdirectory). Let me know if this lead goes anywhere. If not and you still want the part I can put you in contact with the store up by me...I will try to get to the boat today to take a quick pic of the set up to show you how it worked for me. In the mean time good luck and happy SuperBowl Brian H23 kickin' back
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Robert Avent
Go for it!
Mind you this is coming from a guy that regularly uses a 12' Hobie Cat (in nice weather) to go from one end of Negril Jamaica to the other (6 or 7 miles usually a stiff breeze), but I wouldn't hesitate to sail the H23 for extended coastal cruising (provided the weather was fair) Get a weather radio, check it regularly, and at all times have a plan to reach a safe harbor within a few hours if the weather turned sour. Have a well thought out limit (XX mph winds and X ft waves) beyond which you will not exceed even if it means paying a couple of weeks dockage somewhere and arranging other transportation home. This will probably never happen, but don't be tempted to exceed your limit just because the alternative is inconvenient and expensive. Have fun.
Mind you this is coming from a guy that regularly uses a 12' Hobie Cat (in nice weather) to go from one end of Negril Jamaica to the other (6 or 7 miles usually a stiff breeze), but I wouldn't hesitate to sail the H23 for extended coastal cruising (provided the weather was fair) Get a weather radio, check it regularly, and at all times have a plan to reach a safe harbor within a few hours if the weather turned sour. Have a well thought out limit (XX mph winds and X ft waves) beyond which you will not exceed even if it means paying a couple of weeks dockage somewhere and arranging other transportation home. This will probably never happen, but don't be tempted to exceed your limit just because the alternative is inconvenient and expensive. Have fun.
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Frank Ladd
23 vs 23.5
The 23 is very different from the 23.5. The 23 has a traditional rig with a backstay. The 23.5 has a B&R rig with no backstay (more Like a Hobie Cat). The 23 can take advantage of larger genoas. The 23.5 really doesn't benefit from genoas greater than it's stock 110% headsail. The 23.5 racing sail inventory is basically a main, a 110% genoa, and an asymetrical spinnaker. The 23 could benefit from a very large number of different size sails if you are a serious racer. The 23 is much more stable than the 23.5 because it has a keel instead of the 23.5's water ballast. This stability makes it better in choppy conditions. For coastal sailing (less than 15 miles offshore and less that 30 miles from an inlet to protected water)both boats are fine if reefed early and sailed well. For some offshore hops (like from the keys to the Bahamas)They are OK if you are certain you'll have a good weather window. I wouldn't recommend either boat for true offshore sailing where you could not get to a protected anchorage in less than 24 hours. I'd start getting open water coastal experience by daysailing out into the open ocean from a protected inlet or a bay. As you get more experience you'll feel more comfortable. Always have a VHF with weather radio.
The 23 is very different from the 23.5. The 23 has a traditional rig with a backstay. The 23.5 has a B&R rig with no backstay (more Like a Hobie Cat). The 23 can take advantage of larger genoas. The 23.5 really doesn't benefit from genoas greater than it's stock 110% headsail. The 23.5 racing sail inventory is basically a main, a 110% genoa, and an asymetrical spinnaker. The 23 could benefit from a very large number of different size sails if you are a serious racer. The 23 is much more stable than the 23.5 because it has a keel instead of the 23.5's water ballast. This stability makes it better in choppy conditions. For coastal sailing (less than 15 miles offshore and less that 30 miles from an inlet to protected water)both boats are fine if reefed early and sailed well. For some offshore hops (like from the keys to the Bahamas)They are OK if you are certain you'll have a good weather window. I wouldn't recommend either boat for true offshore sailing where you could not get to a protected anchorage in less than 24 hours. I'd start getting open water coastal experience by daysailing out into the open ocean from a protected inlet or a bay. As you get more experience you'll feel more comfortable. Always have a VHF with weather radio.
Brian, about that motor mount....
As mentioned, I bought the Fulton mount. I also bought a piece of 1/2-inch Starboard to make make a wedge to fit between the outboard mount and the transom. The left-over Starboard will go inside the transom to act as a backing plate. This stuff is supposed to cut and sand like wood but last much longer. I'll let you know how it turns out. Peter H23 "Raven"
As mentioned, I bought the Fulton mount. I also bought a piece of 1/2-inch Starboard to make make a wedge to fit between the outboard mount and the transom. The left-over Starboard will go inside the transom to act as a backing plate. This stuff is supposed to cut and sand like wood but last much longer. I'll let you know how it turns out. Peter H23 "Raven"
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