Hi Rick.
I'm not familiar with relays.
Do you have a suggestion of a good site where I can read up on how to do this?
Thanks,
Roger.
Roger,
here's my file on starter wiring problems. The relay bit is at the end. I've had the problem for years and finally installed a relay. No more problem.
Rick,
Don't swap starters. It's not the problem.
Sitting next to the starter are two molded connectors. The larger one has two larger pins in it. Spread the pins back apart. There is a similar connector about a foot off of the panel. Do the same there.
This is a normal problem with the older Yanmar panels and harnesses.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: hard starting Reply with quote
The problem with aging Yanmars not engaging the starter is the wiring. Adding a relay to the starter solves the problem. You can use a continuous duty marine solenoid from West Marine or pick one up at NAPA for the purpose.
The solenoid should have four posts, two high amp, two low amp. On the low amp circuit, connect the starter key wire to one post, and ground the second post. Enaging the key will trip this circuit. On the high amp side, connect a #8 guage wire from the solenoid to the battey/alternator post on the starter motor. Then from the second high amp post run a #8 guage wire back to the post on the starter where the wire from the key originally came from.
Engaging the key will trip the low amp circuit which in turm engages the high amp connection which gives you a very healthy current to the starter solenoid.
Another thing you can do is add a remote start switch (for example near the engine) by connecting a second switch (make sure it is fused) beyween the battery side of the high amp circuit on the solenoid and the key side of the low amp circuit.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: starter problem Reply with quote
I had the same problem--each time I heard a click from the starter, but it wouldn't start turning the motor. I had to hit the start button multiple times, and eventually it would start. Last year I bought a new starter and replaced it, but still had the same problem. Then I read some of the other posts that mentioned that the wires were not sufficiently thick to handle the current from the switch to the solenoid, and they recommended putting in a second solenoid. I found it hard to believe that this would work because the wire seems to be around 12 gauge already which you would think is sufficient, but I figured I'd try it and I purchased a solenoid model COLE HERSEE 24117-01-BP 201337 from west marine, and installed it yesterday. I used thick cables 4 gauge from the battery switch to the solenoid, and 10 gauge from the solenoid to the starter (although you may want to go to 4 gauge for both). Then tested it 4 times-- each time the engine started on the first try. So this fixed my problem.
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Sorry to continue this thread on the Yanmar starting problem, but I'm 12 volt challenged as well, and a bit confused on how to rewire the problem away.
My 1988 IP31 has the 3GM30F engine, and I've had this oft-described starting problem for most of this boats life. I'm in agreement that the under spec'd wiring harness is the problem, and I would throw in the cheap 30 amp fuse holder, that appears to be 16 gauge wire between the 10 or 12 gauge wiring running from the key switch to the starter solenoid. I bought the Cole Hersee #24117 solenoid, and after tracing my wiring from starter button, key switch, alternator and starter solenoid, and then reviewing the wiring setup from "dgrosz" (4/23/05), and "mjs2" (5/26/05), I'm still confused.
"mjs2" is running a wire from the "battery switch" (?) to the solenoid. I assume he meant the starter key switch. "dgrosz" describes grounding the CH solenoid on one low post, then connect the other low post to the starter key (assume at the red wire post). Then from the CH high post, run a wire to the starter solenoid post where the current red fused wire and battery cable terminal are attached. That would replace the red wire running up to the starter solenoid, via the questionable wiring harness and fuse connector. He then connects the other high post on the CH solenoid to the alternator battery ("BAT") terminal. I see were this takes the red wire and its fuse from the wiring harness out of the mix. I also assume that the existing starter solenoid mounted on the starter stays in place. Neither really states that. I assume the CH solenoid and heavier wire (I'll use 8 gauge) is doing nothing more than to get away from the wiring harness (at least the red wire key-to-starter solenoid part of it). If I'm correct up to this point, it would appear to me that I need to remove the red wire running from the alternator/BAT terminal to the battery power terminal on the existing starter solenoid. Do I have this right ? Are there different wiring harnesses by boat manufacturer ? (Note, a 1987 Cal 33 in my boat yard has same engine and wiring harness, and the same problem) If I'm wrong, can someone describe the setup simply for a boat with the Yanmar panel with a starter button and key switch ? Up here in RI, I will not be firing up the engine for another couple of weeks, and would like to avoid blowing out something.
Starter switch wiring...
This seems to be a common problem on Yanmars. I have it from time-to-time on my 4 cylinder 4JH-TE. I have done a whole bunch of research on it, and the general consensus is that the problem is caused by the wiring to the starter solenoid.
Yanmar starter solenoids have two windings, a high current coil that pulls the solenoid in (and then is turned off), and a lower current "holding" coil that holds the plunger in place. The result is a brief high current spike that happens as you push the starter button.
If the wiring to the starter button is too long, too smaller gage, or the starter switch has developed some contact resistance, the added resistance will not allow sufficient current through the solenoid to pull-in adequately during the initial current spike (Ohm's Law).
The general consensus (which I have not yet adopted) is to install an automotive type relay close to the engine, and use heavier gage wire from the battery, through the relay contacts, to the starter solenoid. In other words, the starter switch merely closes the relay, which then supplies the initial current surge through a low resistance path.
Whether this is your problem I can't say, but there are numerous threads around on various forums that indicate that this is the fix.
The solution. Install a small 12V relay at the starter solenoid. Wire the key switch to the relay. Take power from the positive starter lug to the relay. Then wire the relay to the solenoid. Now the key switch only has to provide enough power for a small 12V relay, basically nothing and will have no issue with that at all.
The relay part# I use:
Tyco
12V
V23234-A0001-X032
There are 5 pins on the relay:
87 - Jumper to starter male spade terminal
86 - Wire from Yanmar panel (used to go directly to starter)
30 - Positive jumper from large positive cable attached to starter.
85 - To Ground
87a - Not used
So, without this relay, you have 1 large nut on your starter, with a rather thick positive cable on it (this should come from your start battery). And, you should have 1 smaller cable, with a spade female disconnect on it that is connected to a spade post on the starter (this will come from the Yanmar engine panel at your helm station).
You need to remove this wire from the spade on the starter, connect it to position 86 on the relay. Then you make two short runs of cable, one going back to that spade male terminal on the starter from position 87, and another one from the big nut/positive cable on the starter to position 30 on the relay. Then a short ground wire to your engine ground from position 85 on the relay.
