Old 2004-era ST60 wind instrument

[jaysweet]

I swear I've looked quite a bit, and I can't find a definitive answer to this question. I have an ST60 "wind instrument" (i.e., display/base unit) with the masthead wired transducer from 2004. I'm overhauling the mast this winter, so I will definitely be replacing the masthead transducer and cable. What I need to know is: can I just replace the transducer with the "Standard Forward Short Arm Windvane Transducer Model # 5653563",

which is the older unit with the egg-shaped body. I.e., is this compatible with the 2004 ST60 base unit? On the commercial sites, it says
"The Windvane transducer is compatible with the i60, i70, ST60+, ST70 and ST70+ instruments on the SeaTalkng network via an iTC-5 transducer converter (sold separately). The transducer is connected to the iTC-5, which converts the transducer signals to SeaTalkng. The iTC-5 is then connected to your SeaTalkng backbone. The Windvane transducer can also use a ST70 wind pod to connect to the SeaTalkngnetwork. Short arm vane is supplied with 30m (97.5') cable."

So I'm guessing the answer is "no", because I have an ST60 and not an ST60+. But it seems like Raymarine has pretty much scrubbed their website of any information about compatibility. At the moment, all my instruments (depth, wind, autopilot) are on the old Seatalk network. I do have an Axiom 9 (which needs Seatalk-ng), but it's not networked yet.

I'd be especially interested to hear from anyone that's actually replaced their masthead transducer with the one above, with an older display.

Thanks,

 

[jaysweet]

I'm actually seeing 2 things that imply this transducer would work with my old display. One is the Q&A on the Westmarine website for the product. The other is when I search for "what is the difference between an old Raymarine ST60 and ST60+ wind instrument?" on the web. The answer seems to be: not much. Just that the ST60+ can use velocity from GPS to give true wind, while the ST60 can only use speed through the water.

If they are in fact compatible, then the big question becomes: what are the tradeoffs between upgrading the whole wind package now, vs just replacing the transducer and cable now. The wind display has worked flawlessly for 21 years now. I have been guessing this is b/c I always keep the cover on it, and more importantly, my pedestal always has a full canvas cover over it. So the unit has been protected from rain and sun for 100% of the last 21 years.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Yes it will work fine. I’m 100% sure, but: If you have any doubts - buy from a retailer that has a reasonable return policy and test it by hooking it up to the back of your display head before you unwrap the coil of cable etc. (and open carefully so you can send it back like it was originally packaged).

 

[JoeWhite]

Yes, it will work. That is what I replaced it with. The base interface I the same as the old one. Just pull put the old one and insert the new one. Must turn off the power when you exchange it. It may need to be recaliberated.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

One other tip - keep the old cable and base as a tester so if the instrument stops working you take it down and plug it in for quick test - bypassing your installed cable. There is another test without taking it down:
Raymarine Wind Testing
To perform the check, you will need a multimeter, and a DC power supply. You will need to supply 8v to the masthead across the red and shield connections. Normally the ST50/ST60/70 display head would be energized and provide this 8V, however in your case, you may need to power the masthead transducer separately.
With the multimeter, check the following:
Set the multimeter to the 20V DC scale.
Test at the connections on the rear of the display head, or at the base of the mast (if you have a junction box installed.)
Red to shield should read 8 volts DC steady. This is the masthead power supply, coming from the ST50/ST60 display head. If the head is damaged, you may need to provide this power from another source to test the masthead.
Blue to Shield should read anywhere between 2 and 6 volts DC. This is the port side directional element. The voltage changes as the vane turns.
Green to Shield should read anywhere between 2 and 6 volts DC. This is the starboard side directional element.
Yellow to shield should read between 0 and 5 volts DC. This is the wind speed circuit. The faster the wind is blowing, the higher the voltage will read.
If any of these readings are out of spec, you should assume the masthead is damaged, and it should be repaired or replaced.

 

[jaysweet]

Sounds good folks: thanks for the confirmation!

I'm leaning towards just replacing the transducer now. I actually bought the Seatalk-1 to Seatalk-NG converter when I purchased the Axiom 9 a couple of years ago, but I've been lazy about hooking it up. There's always something else to do on a boat. To be honest, my currently non-networked Axiom gives me 95% of what I want already. The main advantage (to me) of networking it would be that I can display depth on the screen. My depth display is currently hidden on a lower pod, and I have to duck my head to see it if I'm standing up, which I usually am in a tricky channel. It's also my understanding that my ST4000+ autopilot won't fully interface with the Axiom even if I do network it.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

@jaysweet the way I see it you can get the biggest benefit when networking your Axiom by adding AIS and Radar. Of course, seeing depth is also critical and it makes no sense to have that display hidden below, as you noted.
Personally, I’m not a big fan of integrating the autopilot. Even though I have it I don’t want course changes to happen without my input. IMHO the autopilot must be integrated with my eyes and brain.

 

[rpwillia]

You will love the ST1 to STNG converter. You can see your laylines based on wind, depth and other on you Axiom. Autopilot functionality is limited (there is a high end AP that has all of that for $$$), but it does repeat your Rudder angle (see bottom left pop up box).

 

[brazenarticle]

Raymarine has a rebuild kit for the wind transducer, $69 versus the cost of a new unit. After considering the price difference I checked a YouTube video on the process, bought the kit and it has been working fine for almost 2 years (so far).
The ST to STNG converter comes with a power cable. Unfortunately it does not come with a warning to NOT plug power into the converter itself. Raymarine replaced several under warranty before tech support told me to move the power connector.

 

[FastOlson]

At the moment, all my instruments (depth, wind, autopilot) are on the old Seatalk network.

Regarding this one little part of the story-- I installed all new Raymarine ST60 KM, Wind, and Depth instruments in the mid-90's, and then a repeater adjacent to the nav desk a few years later. All still work perfectly (knock wood) and integrate just find on their Seatalk network. Our newer auto helm wheel pilot is independent, and the much newer Lowrance plotter/radar system is on a different more modern network.
I find that the small % of possible usefulness ( to me...) that might result if all were bridged together just does not meet any sort of personal cost/benefit analysis. That, and adding more possible failure points does not seem like a good idea.

That said, if I were marketing marine electronics, and of course constantly up-to-speed on the possible technical virtues, I would tend to talk sailors into constantly buying lots of parts. IMHO, a lot of the "need" to add more functions all the time is driven by the parts having about a ten year max on full support. And, sometimes sooner. And, no I can only cite anecdotal 'evidence' for that opinion.
Luckily, much of this stuff is pretty darned durable; for instance our first AP (wheel pilot from Autohelm) was given to a friend for his even heavier sailboat after about a decade on ours, and ten years later is still in use for a subsequent owner of that boat.

Good Luck on your installation, however you configure it!
May all your data points and electrons be useful and friendly!

 

[jaysweet]

@jaysweet the way I see it you can get the biggest benefit when networking your Axiom by adding AIS and Radar. Of course, seeing depth is also critical and it makes no sense to have that display hidden below, as you noted.
Personally, I’m not a big fan of integrating the autopilot. Even though I have it I don’t want course changes to happen without my input. IMHO the autopilot must be integrated with my eyes and brain.

Well, my 30-foot boat doesn't really need radar. And while I would consider AIS, it's probably not in the cards, since this is more of a "tool around the Chesapeake for a week or two" boat. While I'd love to take it further (coastal), I love my wife more than the boat, and... it's a familiar story.

I agree that having the plotter talk to the autopilot is really not too useful for me. I do lay out full routes in the plotter sometimes, but prefer to just change course manually when a new waypoint comes up. Frankly, the autopilot won't change course anyway without you approving the move. More often than not, I just plunk down one wp on the plotter, do a go-to and tweak the autopilot until it's on the right course.

 

[jaysweet]

You will love the ST1 to STNG converter. You can see your laylines based on wind, depth and other on you Axiom. Autopilot functionality is limited (there is a high end AP that has all of that for $$$), but it does repeat your Rudder angle (see bottom left pop up box).

You definitely do have more info on the screen than I do. I'll probably install it some time soon, since I already bought it.

 

[jaysweet]

Raymarine has a rebuild kit for the wind transducer, $69 versus the cost of a new unit. After considering the price difference I checked a YouTube video on the process, bought the kit and it has been working fine for almost 2 years (so far).
The ST to STNG converter comes with a power cable. Unfortunately it does not come with a warning to NOT plug power into the converter itself. Raymarine replaced several under warranty before tech support told me to move the power connector.

I think I'm starting to lean heavily on the egg-shaped analog transducer above. I don't follow your converter/power comment, though.

 

[jaysweet]

Regarding this one little part of the story-- I installed all new Raymarine ST60 KM, Wind, and Depth instruments in the mid-90's, and then a repeater adjacent to the nav desk a few years later. All still work perfectly (knock wood) and integrate just find on their Seatalk network. Our newer auto helm wheel pilot is independent, and the much newer Lowrance plotter/radar system is on a different more modern network.
I find that the small % of possible usefulness ( to me...) that might result if all were bridged together just does not meet any sort of personal cost/benefit analysis. That, and adding more possible failure points does not seem like a good idea.

That said, if I were marketing marine electronics, and of course constantly up-to-speed on the possible technical virtues, I would tend to talk sailors into constantly buying lots of parts. IMHO, a lot of the "need" to add more functions all the time is driven by the parts having about a ten year max on full support. And, sometimes sooner. And, no I can only cite anecdotal 'evidence' for that opinion.
Luckily, much of this stuff is pretty darned durable; for instance our first AP (wheel pilot from Autohelm) was given to a friend for his even heavier sailboat after about a decade on ours, and ten years later is still in use for a subsequent owner of that boat.

Good Luck on your installation, however you configure it!
May all your data points and electrons be useful and friendly!

I think that's where I am as well. Except for the comment on autopilot durability. The control head has been fine, but the ST4000+ wheel pilot developed many cracks in the plastic wheel and had to be replaced a few years ago. No real complaints here: it worked for at least 15-17 years. And replacing the wheel-mounted unit was dead easy.

 

[brazenarticle]

The StNG converter gets power from the N2k backbone. It comes with a power connector that can plug into the spur cable sockets but that is likely to fry the inner electronics over time. It will work for a while, sometimes for many months before failing. The flashing LED light will stop working. When that happens the converter and anything connected to it will not be recognized on the network and the converter will need to be repaired or replaced.
When you purchase a converter or components be sure to register it for the warranty, that makes the process easier.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I may not be understanding your entire electronic package but it sounds like you have a NMEA 2000 backbone and now you have an opportunity to replace the wind transducer because you are taking the mast down. Why do you want to install an obsolete transducer just to preserve an obsolete instrument display? I would simplify it all by simply upgrading the entire package of instruments and transducers, especially because you may not be taking the mast down again for a long while.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I may not be understanding your entire electronic package but it sounds like you have a NMEA 2000 backbone and now you have an opportunity to replace the wind transducer because you are taking the mast down. Why do you want to install an obsolete transducer just to preserve an obsolete instrument display? I would simplify it all by simply upgrading the entire package of instruments and transducers, especially because you may not be taking the mast down again for a long while.

I like your thinking. Sounds like something I’d do.

But talk about “scope creep”! LOL Might as well replace the VHF antenna while he’s at it. And why use an older radio with a new antenna? Let’s add on a new VHF while we’re at it?

 

[jaysweet]

I may not be understanding your entire electronic package but it sounds like you have a NMEA 2000 backbone and now you have an opportunity to replace the wind transducer because you are taking the mast down. Why do you want to install an obsolete transducer just to preserve an obsolete instrument display? I would simplify it all by simply upgrading the entire package of instruments and transducers, especially because you may not be taking the mast down again for a long while.

I have an old Seatalk-1 backbone (wind/depth/speed/autopilot) with a newer standalone Axiom 9. I'm going to replace the analog wind transducer and its cable with the new one shown in the original post.

As a completely separate matter, I have the Seatalk-1 to Seatalk-NG converter sitting in a box. I believe I can use it to attach the Axiom 9 MFD to the old Seatalk-1 network, but haven't done it yet. There's a section in the manual titled "4.6 SeaTalkng® device connection to SeaTalk network" which shows how to add one Seatalk-NG device to an existing Seatalk network.

The reason I've decided (as of yesterday) to just replace the wind transducer rather than upgrade the entire old network to Seatalk-NG is basically because it would cost quite a lot, and give me almost no new functionality that I care about.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I have an old Seatalk-1 backbone (wind/depth/speed/autopilot) with a newer standalone Axiom 9. I'm going to replace the analog wind transducer and its cable with the new one shown in the original post.

As a completely separate matter, I have the Seatalk-1 to Seatalk-NG converter sitting in a box. I believe I can use it to attach the Axiom 9 MFD to the old Seatalk-1 network, but haven't done it yet. There's a section in the manual titled "4.6 SeaTalkng® device connection to SeaTalk network" which shows how to add one Seatalk-NG device to an existing Seatalk network.

The reason I've decided (as of yesterday) to just replace the wind transducer rather than upgrade the entire old network to Seatalk-NG is basically because it would cost quite a lot, and give me almost no new functionality that I care about.

Agree - the only economic justification to get new windows/speed/depth instrumentation is if the old stop working reliably. Adding the Seatalk NG converter to interface your newer Axiom is a the way to go.

 

[StuartSailor]

The wind transducer is the same for ST as for StNG. The change from analog to digital takes place at the base of the mast.
Good on you for not connecting auto pilot to the network. Stand alone systems have fewer failure points. I have scene a water temperature transducer take down an auto pilot over n2k. Alot of money was spent before the culprit was found. Network related domino faults can be sneaky gremlins.