Oil pan

[rjsousa]

Long story made short...prior to Hurricane Irene, oil pan in engine needed replacement. While the boat yard pulled the engine and did the replacement, I disconnected the wiring to alternator and starter. Several weeks passed and my memory fails some. Does anyone have a good diagram of which wire goes where? I took some photos but they don't show some critical linkages. Boat is out of water for winter but I sure would like to get her running before I put her to bed. The ideal solution would be to get a look at a similar boat but short of that, I'll take photos, drawings and other advice. I have a schematic in the owners manual and that should be helpful but I would love to be reassured that I am putting the correct wire in the correct spot...alternator and starter particularly.

Help is appreciated.
Bob

 

[gpd955]

Which boat/year/engine?

 

[rjsousa]

Starter and alternator wiring.

Long story made short...prior to Hurricane Irene, oil pan in engine needed replacement. While the boat yard pulled the engine and did the replacement, I disconnected the wiring to alternator and starter. Several weeks passed and my memory fails some. Does anyone have a good diagram of which wire goes where? I took some photos but they don't show some critical linkages. Boat is out of water for winter but I sure would like to get her running before I put her to bed. The ideal solution would be to get a look at a similar boat but short of that, I'll take photos, drawings and other advice. I have a schematic in the owners manual and that should be helpful but I would love to be reassured that I am putting the correct wire in the correct spot...alternator and starter particularly.

Help is appreciated.
Bob

Please note that it wasn't an oil pan leak afterall...it was the dip stick tube. I have a used oil pan (in fine shape) for a M-18 Universal diesel in case anyone needs one.

What I need is someone with a similar model Catalina 27 (about 1985) to send me some photos of the wiring hookups to the alternator and starter. There are about 6 wires coming from the main briddle and I just need to be sure I am putting the correct ones on the correct terminals. I have the largest red (+) going to the starter. I am unsure where to hook up the smaller red wire.

A photo of the main ground (black) wire to the block would also be helpful. I don't think it makes much difference where it is bolted as long as it makes a quality connection to the engine block. Meanwhile, I have the smaller ground (black) wire going to the block at the bottom of the coolant reservoir tank just above the oil filter.

I am heading up to the boat now with the Owners manual to see if I can figure it out a bit more. All help on this one is appreciated as I do not want to blow something out...just too expensive to repair. The oil sending unit which I needed to replace cost $50. I can imagine the starter and alternator assemblies!

 

[rjsousa]

Alternator/Starter wiring

Jack, thank you for responding...Boat is Catalina 27, 1885. Engine is Universal M-18.
Hope this helps.
Bob

 

[Stu Jackson]

Wiring help

Here's a link to the basic wiring diagrams with the color codes from the harnessw to the engine:

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Engine_Harness_Upgrade

Here's a link to sketches I made when I was doing my alternator upgrade:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4548.0.html

These may be of help to you. But we don't know how you were originally wired, so that's up to you.

Good luck, Stu

PS While you're at it, why not draw a wiring diagram so this doesn't happen to you again and you'll better understand how your boat works.

 

[rjsousa]

Alternator/Starter wiring

Stu, I am down to one wire of uncertain location. Perhaps your diagrams might show it. My wiring harness has two red wires...The first is a large one (#10 guage) and that seems to go to the starter solenoid. The other...smaller (probably a #12 guage) is the one I am concerned about. The diagram in my book does not seem to show this smaller red wire.

There is an orange (#10) that goes to the alternator. I have a fused line (purple) that goes to another terminal on the alternator. Finally, there is a grey (#16) that goes to the tach terminal on the alternator.

I've been taking photos as I go along so that I will have a photo record. I am going to take a look at the diagrams you sent...maybe there is a clue.

Best regards and thank you,
Bob

Here's a link to the basic wiring diagrams with the color codes from the harnessw to the engine:

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Engine_Harness_Upgrade

Here's a link to sketches I made when I was doing my alternator upgrade:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4548.0.html

These may be of help to you. But we don't know how you were originally wired, so that's up to you.

Good luck, Stu

PS While you're at it, why not draw a wiring diagram so this doesn't happen to you again and you'll better understand how your boat works.

 

[rjsousa]

Stu, I see in your top diagram that there are two red wires going into the back of the alternator. My schematic shows a Grey, Orange and Purple going in. I am just not sure what to do with the smaller red wire in the harness. The larger seems to go to the starter solenoid...I am still trying to find a home for the smaller one. It is a short wire so it has to go somewhere near the starter/alternator. Someone out there has a 1985 Catalina 27 or similar vintage. Hopefully they will surface and give me the needed clue. I would like to get it all together by next week, start her up and then put her to bed for the winter knowing that she'll be ready to go next spring.
Best regards,
Bob

 

[Stu Jackson]

Wiring help

Bob,

Two red wires: You need to look at the first and last diagrams. Last diagram – red key switch; first diagram – red from alternator to cockpit panel for field wire. I had an AutoMac, so my wiring may be different than yours for the field wiring, but that seems to be what they are supposed to do. I’d do a continuity test if I were you, to check what each does, for real, on your boat.

Orange to the alternator: re-read the first link I gave you, the harness story from Seaward. It explains the orange wire. You should also read this, which explains how the boats were wired originally: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.0.html Reply #11. It explains the wire between the AO and the starter.

Purple should be ignition to the alternator, see third diagram and the harness story.

Gray to tach: You wire colors seems to be different than mine. The note on diagram 3 says: orange – determined to be tach wire to cockpit. Don’t know what to tell except testing.

Photos will help you, but you didn’t say if you were doing a wiring diagram. That’s VERY important.

All the best,

Stu

 

[rjsousa]

I think I found a home for every wire except the smaller guage red (+) wire. It is relative short as it comes out of the harness in the engine compartment so it must lead to the starter, the starter solenoid, or the alternator. Could both red wires go to the same terminal on the starter solenoid?

I hooked up the wire to the glow plugs...I had a good photo of it. My schematic in the owners manual doesn't seem to list the second red wire. Does anyone have a 1985 Catalina 27 or similar vintage that could help me solve this connection riddle?

BTW, I got all the linkages (decompression, accelerator and transmission) reinstalled yesterday. Today I change the two fuel filters, the oil filter and change/reinstall the coolant and fuel hoses.
Thanks,
Bob

 

[rjsousa]

Stu, I have found "homes" for (Catalina 27, 1985, Universal M-18 diesel) the wiring harness as follows:

Black (#6-8 guage)---common ground to block
Grey (#10 guage)----glow plugs
Yellow-Red (#16 guage) ---Fusible line...goes to knife connection on Starter Solenoid
Orange (#10 guage) ---Output terminal on the alternator
Red (#6-8 guage)---main terminal on starter solenoid
Purple (#16 guage) ---knife connection on the alternator
Lt Blue (#16 guage) ---Oil sending unit ($50 w postage, part # 299964)
Tan (#16 guage)---Temperature sending unit
Grey (#16 guage)---Glow plug terminal

My schematic lists and "open" wire---also a + wire (#14 guage) that goes to the fuel pump but the wire I am dealing with is much shorter and would never reach the fuel pump. Besides, the fuel pump wire was never disconnected so I doubt that the "red fellow" that I have the question on is related to the fuel pump.

Your suggestion to go back to the cockpit control panel is a good one. In thinking about it, my guess is that the #10 guage red goes to the key switch...I'll look this morning. Like you suggest, once I can find out what it does, it might give me a clue as to where it terminates. Let's hope so.

Again, thank you for your help. I looked at your schematics and although some were difficult to understand, they did help me put some of this together. Last night I even went back through my Captain's Log book to see if I made any drawings in years past...none for the alternator/starter.

 

[rjsousa]

Stu, I took your advice and went back to the control panel. As suspected, the smaller red wire (about #10 guage) went to the key switch. Now following that back on the schematic from the Owner's Manual, I noted that this wire goes to the positive terminal on the starter solenoid. I also saw that a red wire (much heavier) from the battery is attached to the same point. So as it turns out, both red wires...the big one and the smaller one seem to go to the same point. It appears that the schematic would agree with this logic.

Meanwhile, I connected all the hoses (and replaced some that were questionable), I filled the coolant tank with antifreeze, and filled the oil reservoir after I installed a new oil filter.

I just finished another small job and expanded the bolt slot on the rocker arm for the alternator. I had been having trouble with the anchor point (on the coolant tank) for the alternator bracket assemble. The threads were stripped into the coolant tank so I tapped in a finer thread 3/8 x24 for a larger bolt. I also ground down the bold tip so that I get thread contact earlier. Finally I retapped the bolt to ensure the accuracy of the threads. Until I get this installed, I can't mount the alternator.

I'll get the alternator mounted tomorrow or Monday. Then I can energize the system...hopefully nothing will pop. The final step is to run a small amount of antifreeze through the engine (saltwater side) and put her to bed for the winter.

When all this passes muster, I plan to go back and make a complete diagram for the next guy...hopefully I will never have to do this again!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Alternator wiring

I'm really happy to be able to help. I think the M18 and M25 had the same old alternator bracket. Not to rain on your parade, but have you upgraded to the new alternator bracket? You know, while you're at it down there...

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=M-25_Alternator_Mount_Conversion_Kit_"B/M_256891"

I recall some discussion on the Ericson forum that the two engines shared a lot of "features."

 

[rjsousa]

Stu, I like the new bracket...the front of the M-25 looks a lot like the M-18...wonder if the same bracket is used. I need to check on this. It might be a better solution to my center anchor bolt problem...the bolt that goes through the rocker arm. Do you remember where you found yours? Torensens? Idea as to cost? I've found that when things go bad...it is at the worst possible time. I just addressed one oil leak problem...a corroded dip stick tube...and don't really want to get another one.
Bob

 

[Stu Jackson]

Alternator bracket

Read this, it's in there somewhere, a few posts:

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=740457&highlight=Pat Royce

 

[rjsousa]

Stu, didn't find reference to Alternator Bracket upgrade in the citation you sent...pertained to Catalina 22's. Nevertheless, I did locate one being sold by Torrensens...The wanted $178 for the entire kit...including hoses, clamps, etc which I don't need. You are right that the bracket accommodates both M-18 and M25 models. Do you know the specific part numbers for the bracket w/o all that other stuff?

Also, am I correct in putting both red wires (the heavy guage one from the battery and the lighter guage wire from the key switch) on the starter solenoid. I think I am on firm ground (boy is that a mixed metaphore!!!) in doing it but corroboration from an expert is always welcome. I also listed the other wires/color with their placement.

One way or the other, I should know this coming week when I get a chance to start her up.

Best regards,
Bob

 

[rjsousa]

I think I got everything back together yesterday. Today I will connect the batteries, bleed the fuel system (replaced all filters) and start her up (or at least try to). My boat yard owner gave me a tip. Since I am on dry land, he suggests filling a bucket with freshwater and inserting the intake hose to the bottom of the bucket. Have a hose ready to add water when needed. The point is that the water pump is taking up water as it is needed. Water is not being forced through the cooling system as it would if the hose was connected directly to the intake hose. With a bit of luck, by this afternoon, I should be back in business. Keep fingers crossed.
Bob

 

[rjsousa]

ENGINE STARTED...RIGHT AWAY!!!!

I guess I did everything right because she didn't miss a stroke. The wiring scheme outlined a few days ago seems to be correct. Everything worked. We are celebrating with a crab dinner...bought a dozen live crabs an hour ago and they are steaming now. Thanks for all the help. BTW, the suggestion to use a bucket of freshwater for a temporary cooling reservoir (to insert the cooling water intake hose) worked perfectly.

Note if anyone needs an oil pan or oil drain hose for a Universal M-18 diesel, I have them.
Bob