I just joined this website today and was wondering how many Lancer owners have taken their boats offshore. How far, how long, problems, pleasures? My girl and I have cruised along the eastern seaboard of the great USA and Bahamas (as a hobby) for the last few years on our Lancer 36 "Trilogy". We are looking into doing more extensive cruising and are considering purchasing a more stout ocean sailing vessel. After installing an inner forestay for a cutter sail and a third reef in the main on Trilogy I have felt more comfortable with her in the ocean and am hoping to save about $50,000 and travel with the boat I love and know. How do you like your Lancer in the ocean?
Offshore Lancers
- Thread starter leiby
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Hi leiby,
My guess is that you probably have more offshore experience at this point than most of the users in this part of the forum, myself included, although there are no doubt some here who have a lifetime of offshore experience under their belts.
Since they haven't piped up yet, I'll volunteer my take on the subject. I am a little ambivelant on the subject of taking my Lancer offshore, or at least on an extended offshore cruise. I haven't done so yet, more due to time constraints than anything else, but am planning a circumnavigation of Vancouver Island at the end of next summer, when the weather is typically pretty favorable. I feel quite confident with the boat for that particular trip at that time of the year, but I'll be doing a ton of little mods ahead of time.
My ambivalence around longer offshore trips is the fact that it is a deck-stepped mast, and the rigging isn't super heavy compared to some others. I had a long chat on the subject with a friend who's had his boat (not a Lancer) back and forth to Hawaii 5 times, and won most of the ocean races in my part of the Pacific Northwest. While I am by no means whatsoever an 'offshore veteran', my friend is. He owned a company that built around 120 cruising sailboats, and has something like 80 000 NM under his current keel.
His recommendation was to ensure that the compression post is in excellent condition and replace it if necessary, and to consider upgrading the gauge of the shrouds or converting to stainless rod rigging to ensure maximum rig strength.
Another recommendation is to look at some of the safety regs for big offshore races such as the Transpac or Vic-Maui. These will stipulate all sorts of little mods that will keep you from having your skull cracked open by a flying tin of beans or icebox lid. They also stipulate things like having your lifelines (what a misnomer!) made of uncoated cable so that you can detect impending failures, minimum gauge and material for jacklines, and so on.
You've probably already added a backstay tensioner, and if not, that would be on my list of things to do. Aside from that, the 36' hull was designed to race in the Transpac, and is meant as an offshore design, although the interior would benefit from some tinkering to make it more projectile-proof and offshore-friendly, such as additional strong points for handholds.
The Lancer does have a fairly high volume cockpit, and that is another source of my ambivalence about taking her offshore in truly heavy conditions. In the event that one were pooped by a wave breaking astern, there'd be an awful lot of weight in the cockpit until it drained. I'd also look at something a little more wave-proof than my lovely cockpit barn-doors.
That said, there are plenty of boats out there that aren't necessarily better built that people take offshore. I think I'd have a pretty long list of upgrades in mind before taking my Lancer down the Pacific Coast to Mexico, or to Hawaii, though. Mind you, those upgrades might cost a whole lot less than upgrading to a heavier vessel, and might mean that you get out there a lot sooner on the sweet Devil with whom you are already so well acquainted.
I haven't yet had my Lancer out in the severity of conditions that I've been exposed to on previous boats, but her performance in the bits of rough-ish weather I've had her in have been reassuring. So far, the most I've seen on this boat is maybe a wee tad over 25 knots of wind, (fairly cold air, so more dense and therefore forceful than the same windspeed in hot weather) but nothing really challenging. Nonetheless, I didn't see any bad habits popping up, even with the full main and 135% Genoa up in approx. 20 Kts. When the wind piped up to around 25kts or so, I threw a single reef into the main, and cheated by furling in a wee bit of the Genoa (I know, it distorts the sail shape, but I had skittish novices aboard and they are uncomfortable with heel) Besides, we all know that at more than 18 degrees of heel most boats start losing efficiency and stressing the rig...
When we encountered wind over current at a river delta, she handled the steep, tall, stacked and chaotic chop quite well, if with somewhat lively fore and aft pitch. Still, a fairly dry ride, for all that
The ideal offshore boat might have a little less beam/length, but others would say that the ideal boat is the one you own and can afford to go sailing in sooner rather than later. I hope this gets a discussion going that is helpful!
Cheers!
Jeremy
My guess is that you probably have more offshore experience at this point than most of the users in this part of the forum, myself included, although there are no doubt some here who have a lifetime of offshore experience under their belts.
Since they haven't piped up yet, I'll volunteer my take on the subject. I am a little ambivelant on the subject of taking my Lancer offshore, or at least on an extended offshore cruise. I haven't done so yet, more due to time constraints than anything else, but am planning a circumnavigation of Vancouver Island at the end of next summer, when the weather is typically pretty favorable. I feel quite confident with the boat for that particular trip at that time of the year, but I'll be doing a ton of little mods ahead of time.
My ambivalence around longer offshore trips is the fact that it is a deck-stepped mast, and the rigging isn't super heavy compared to some others. I had a long chat on the subject with a friend who's had his boat (not a Lancer) back and forth to Hawaii 5 times, and won most of the ocean races in my part of the Pacific Northwest. While I am by no means whatsoever an 'offshore veteran', my friend is. He owned a company that built around 120 cruising sailboats, and has something like 80 000 NM under his current keel.
His recommendation was to ensure that the compression post is in excellent condition and replace it if necessary, and to consider upgrading the gauge of the shrouds or converting to stainless rod rigging to ensure maximum rig strength.
Another recommendation is to look at some of the safety regs for big offshore races such as the Transpac or Vic-Maui. These will stipulate all sorts of little mods that will keep you from having your skull cracked open by a flying tin of beans or icebox lid. They also stipulate things like having your lifelines (what a misnomer!) made of uncoated cable so that you can detect impending failures, minimum gauge and material for jacklines, and so on.
You've probably already added a backstay tensioner, and if not, that would be on my list of things to do. Aside from that, the 36' hull was designed to race in the Transpac, and is meant as an offshore design, although the interior would benefit from some tinkering to make it more projectile-proof and offshore-friendly, such as additional strong points for handholds.
The Lancer does have a fairly high volume cockpit, and that is another source of my ambivalence about taking her offshore in truly heavy conditions. In the event that one were pooped by a wave breaking astern, there'd be an awful lot of weight in the cockpit until it drained. I'd also look at something a little more wave-proof than my lovely cockpit barn-doors.
That said, there are plenty of boats out there that aren't necessarily better built that people take offshore. I think I'd have a pretty long list of upgrades in mind before taking my Lancer down the Pacific Coast to Mexico, or to Hawaii, though. Mind you, those upgrades might cost a whole lot less than upgrading to a heavier vessel, and might mean that you get out there a lot sooner on the sweet Devil with whom you are already so well acquainted.
I haven't yet had my Lancer out in the severity of conditions that I've been exposed to on previous boats, but her performance in the bits of rough-ish weather I've had her in have been reassuring. So far, the most I've seen on this boat is maybe a wee tad over 25 knots of wind, (fairly cold air, so more dense and therefore forceful than the same windspeed in hot weather) but nothing really challenging. Nonetheless, I didn't see any bad habits popping up, even with the full main and 135% Genoa up in approx. 20 Kts. When the wind piped up to around 25kts or so, I threw a single reef into the main, and cheated by furling in a wee bit of the Genoa (I know, it distorts the sail shape, but I had skittish novices aboard and they are uncomfortable with heel) Besides, we all know that at more than 18 degrees of heel most boats start losing efficiency and stressing the rig...
When we encountered wind over current at a river delta, she handled the steep, tall, stacked and chaotic chop quite well, if with somewhat lively fore and aft pitch. Still, a fairly dry ride, for all that
The ideal offshore boat might have a little less beam/length, but others would say that the ideal boat is the one you own and can afford to go sailing in sooner rather than later. I hope this gets a discussion going that is helpful!
Cheers!
Jeremy
The Chainplates in the 36 are fair; while I've seen more substantial setups, they are OK. That's scary to hear about your deck cleats having neither washers nor backing plates - I'd have certainly lost my cleats by now if mine weren't backed, due to all the wake where I am docked.
It's always worth the time spent crawling over your boat, especially with a good checklist...
It's always worth the time spent crawling over your boat, especially with a good checklist...
Lancer 36 off shore repair.
The compression post is in excellent condition but the cabin roof where the mast base sits , has sunken down around the mast base area about 1/2 inch. Dose this mean that the core material must be repaired befor the compression post is raised 1/2 inch, and if so, can the cabin top core material be repaired and what is involved in it's repair. Is the core material plywood, aluminum, or fiberglass. Has anyone had this problem.
Thanks Steve.
The compression post is in excellent condition but the cabin roof where the mast base sits , has sunken down around the mast base area about 1/2 inch. Dose this mean that the core material must be repaired befor the compression post is raised 1/2 inch, and if so, can the cabin top core material be repaired and what is involved in it's repair. Is the core material plywood, aluminum, or fiberglass. Has anyone had this problem.
Thanks Steve.
Off Shore Lancer 36
A broker recently told me that he would not want to go to Hawai in a Lancer 36 because he had rased in Australia alot and lancers are light weight racer type hulls. He said he would want a boat with alot of hull below the water line and heavy.
I guess its what you want. I hear light weight racers are a rough ride. I hear you need a drag shoot or two on board in case of bad weather. 40 foot waves comming at you at 25 Knots can launch a light boat into the air off the wave and leave a long long way to fall
with a very heavy slam when it hits.
In compaison a Catalina 36 weighs not much more about 13,500 and a Lacer 36 weighs 10,000 pounds.
Go to a little off shore British Channal Piolt Cutter 28 foot and it is 15,000 pounds with a V bottom shole draft hull.
I heare the Lancer 36 won the Trans Pac, first time a boat that small did.
Has any body converted to a keel steped mast, still a bargin for an offshore cruzer.
A broker recently told me that he would not want to go to Hawai in a Lancer 36 because he had rased in Australia alot and lancers are light weight racer type hulls. He said he would want a boat with alot of hull below the water line and heavy.
I guess its what you want. I hear light weight racers are a rough ride. I hear you need a drag shoot or two on board in case of bad weather. 40 foot waves comming at you at 25 Knots can launch a light boat into the air off the wave and leave a long long way to fall
with a very heavy slam when it hits.
In compaison a Catalina 36 weighs not much more about 13,500 and a Lacer 36 weighs 10,000 pounds.
Go to a little off shore British Channal Piolt Cutter 28 foot and it is 15,000 pounds with a V bottom shole draft hull.
I heare the Lancer 36 won the Trans Pac, first time a boat that small did.
Has any body converted to a keel steped mast, still a bargin for an offshore cruzer.
Off Shore Lancer 36
A broker recently told me that he would not want to go to Hawai in a Lancer 36 because he had raised in Australia alot and lancers are light weight racer type hulls. He said he would want a boat with alot of hull below the water line and heavy.
I guess its what you want. I hear light weight racers are a rough ride. I hear you need a drag shoot or two on board in case of bad weather. 40 foot waves comming at you at 25 Knots can launch a light boat into the air off the wave and leave a long long way to fall
with a very heavy slam when it hits.
In compaison a Catalina 36 weighs not much more about 13,500 and a Lacer 36 weighs 10,000 pounds.
Go to a little off shore British Channal Piolt Cutter 28 foot and it is 15,000 pounds with a V bottom shole draft hull.
I heare the Lancer 36 won the Trans Pac, first time a boat that small did.
Has any body converted to a keel steped mast, still a bargin for an offshore cruzer.
A broker recently told me that he would not want to go to Hawai in a Lancer 36 because he had raised in Australia alot and lancers are light weight racer type hulls. He said he would want a boat with alot of hull below the water line and heavy.
I guess its what you want. I hear light weight racers are a rough ride. I hear you need a drag shoot or two on board in case of bad weather. 40 foot waves comming at you at 25 Knots can launch a light boat into the air off the wave and leave a long long way to fall
with a very heavy slam when it hits.
In compaison a Catalina 36 weighs not much more about 13,500 and a Lacer 36 weighs 10,000 pounds.
Go to a little off shore British Channal Piolt Cutter 28 foot and it is 15,000 pounds with a V bottom shole draft hull.
I heare the Lancer 36 won the Trans Pac, first time a boat that small did.
Has any body converted to a keel steped mast, still a bargin for an offshore cruzer.
This is my first time on this site and was happy to coma across other lancer owners. I have a 1978 Lancer 30. i am planning on doing the Vancouver island trip myself maybe this fall. my goal is to take her down to southern California next fall near . "bodega bay"
I would appreciate info people would have on this boat.
I have had her out in 20-25 knot winds in the San Juan islands without much trouble, but if i don't reef the Jib i get bad weatherhelm.
I would appreciate info people would have on this boat.
I have had her out in 20-25 knot winds in the San Juan islands without much trouble, but if i don't reef the Jib i get bad weatherhelm.
Compression
Hire a surveyor to meter it for moisture or tap the deck around the mast with a the handle of a screwdriver or plastic hammer. If it is sound it should produce a sharp sound. If it produces a dull thud it is the core. If it is dry then the culprit may lie elsewhere, such is in the block under the compression post. That is my problem. The head door is a little out of alignment on my 9.2A and it is hinged near the post. There is actually a depression in the teak and holly cabin sole where it meets the compression post. My sole is shot anyway so I will tear it out and tackle the block at the same time.
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