Gordon: I know that many think that Yanmar charges too much for their parts but is there any difference between a Yanmar Oil filter and a brand 'x' such as Fram. Also has Yanmar taken a stance on synthetic motor oils vs petro based products? I notice that they now have multi-grade oil offered too. Do you see any distinct advantages of using a multi-grade? From my point of view it seems that a 30wt diesel grade oil would be better than a multi- grade in the marine environment. It is a true 30 weight oil and a 15W-40 is actually a 15wt oil trying to be a 40wt. Our environment is such that the water temp is fairly constant and so is the operating environment, so what would the advantages/disadvantages be.
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Wayne Estabrooks
Multiweight vs Single Weight Lube oils
My brother in law is a bearings engineer and works on bearing design for a number of engine manufacturers. He says that multiweight oil, like 10w40 offer better lubrication to the bearings at initial startup than does straight 40 weight oil so I use the diesel rated multiweight oil in my Yanmar. I use Rotella T or Chevron Delo. Lets see what the experts say.
My brother in law is a bearings engineer and works on bearing design for a number of engine manufacturers. He says that multiweight oil, like 10w40 offer better lubrication to the bearings at initial startup than does straight 40 weight oil so I use the diesel rated multiweight oil in my Yanmar. I use Rotella T or Chevron Delo. Lets see what the experts say.
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Sam Lust
Yanmar finally
woke up and recommends 15W 40 like Cummins, Mack, Caterpiller, General Motors, Ford and so on and so on. See a trend here? The chemical viscosity enhancers provide superior shear strength, which is what a diesel needs. Just warm the oil before subjecting the engine to full power.
woke up and recommends 15W 40 like Cummins, Mack, Caterpiller, General Motors, Ford and so on and so on. See a trend here? The chemical viscosity enhancers provide superior shear strength, which is what a diesel needs. Just warm the oil before subjecting the engine to full power.
but Sam!
"Quicker flow and pressure on cold start than 30 wt, superior lubrication at running oil temperature." I understand the quicker flow on cold starts, but when does a boat ever do a "COLD START". This is fine in an automobile but boats are usually sitting in the water that is USUALLY not hard when we start them up. So cold starts are trully a relative term. My real concern about multi-grade oil has to do with the discontinuance of 10W-30. They found out that it did not lubricate properly and most engine mfgs no longer recommend it (because of engine failures) and the oil mfgs no longer make it. While the multi-grade oils are probably only reasonable for the conditions that an auto encounter when does a sailboat engine ever see these types of operating conditions. We start the engine, let it warm up for a few minutes back out of the slip and rev the motor up to a constant operating speed. The relative operating tempature is as constant as we can get, the water temp doesn't change enough to worry about. While I am not disagreeing with you I am trying to figure out if multigrade is really BETTER and SAFER than a single grade ie:30wt. in a Diesel engine. I cannot think of an easier life, other than being the web master of the Sailboat Owner website (maybe).
"Quicker flow and pressure on cold start than 30 wt, superior lubrication at running oil temperature." I understand the quicker flow on cold starts, but when does a boat ever do a "COLD START". This is fine in an automobile but boats are usually sitting in the water that is USUALLY not hard when we start them up. So cold starts are trully a relative term. My real concern about multi-grade oil has to do with the discontinuance of 10W-30. They found out that it did not lubricate properly and most engine mfgs no longer recommend it (because of engine failures) and the oil mfgs no longer make it. While the multi-grade oils are probably only reasonable for the conditions that an auto encounter when does a sailboat engine ever see these types of operating conditions. We start the engine, let it warm up for a few minutes back out of the slip and rev the motor up to a constant operating speed. The relative operating tempature is as constant as we can get, the water temp doesn't change enough to worry about. While I am not disagreeing with you I am trying to figure out if multigrade is really BETTER and SAFER than a single grade ie:30wt. in a Diesel engine. I cannot think of an easier life, other than being the web master of the Sailboat Owner website (maybe).
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John V.
Authorative Oil FAQ online
This FAQ is on many sites on the internet; the following is the first hit I turned with the search string "oil faq." http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-overview.html
This FAQ is on many sites on the internet; the following is the first hit I turned with the search string "oil faq." http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-overview.html
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Tom Senator
Multi weight oil is not perfect
But will probably work fine in most situations. Thanks John V. for the web site. I have seen that site before and for those that didn't read it I pulled a very important paragragh out...... " Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require alot of polymers (synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best." Did you all read the part about polymers (additives to make multi weight oil) causing problems in Diesel engines. Maybe that is why Yanmar reluctantly ok's multi-weight oils now. I'm sticking with single weight unless I really think there is a potential for such low start up temperatures that would cause the oil to not flow well enough....(who sails in weather below 30 deg F and needs to start the engine?....not a lot of people I bet....especially in lower half of USA)
But will probably work fine in most situations. Thanks John V. for the web site. I have seen that site before and for those that didn't read it I pulled a very important paragragh out...... " Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require alot of polymers (synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best." Did you all read the part about polymers (additives to make multi weight oil) causing problems in Diesel engines. Maybe that is why Yanmar reluctantly ok's multi-weight oils now. I'm sticking with single weight unless I really think there is a potential for such low start up temperatures that would cause the oil to not flow well enough....(who sails in weather below 30 deg F and needs to start the engine?....not a lot of people I bet....especially in lower half of USA)
Senator, Tom
I could not agree more and that is exactly my point. 30wt gives you the ultimate protection unless you are operating in cold temperatures. My engine starts fine even in the winter (temperatures in low 40's) after sitting for several weeks.
I could not agree more and that is exactly my point. 30wt gives you the ultimate protection unless you are operating in cold temperatures. My engine starts fine even in the winter (temperatures in low 40's) after sitting for several weeks.
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Stan Rogacevicz
Easy cold start is not the issue
The issue is what happens to the bearings etc.. when they are not properly lubricated During The Startup. If you are starting in the cold with 30 wt. you May not be getting as good lubrication as you would with 10-40, so even though it starts fine you May be wearing the bearings etc.. faster that with 10-40. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
The issue is what happens to the bearings etc.. when they are not properly lubricated During The Startup. If you are starting in the cold with 30 wt. you May not be getting as good lubrication as you would with 10-40, so even though it starts fine you May be wearing the bearings etc.. faster that with 10-40. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
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Gordon Torresen
Official stand!
Yanmar states and emphatic NO to synthetic lubricating oil. They don't expand on their reasons but it sounds like they mean it. They make it grounds for voiding the warranty so if you are a devout beliver in synthetics, hold off for the first two years. They also highly recommend the 15W40 oils that have been formulated for diesel use. I concur with the above but I do question the Yanmar position that says to change the lube oil filter every second oil change. I think I would prefer it the other way around. As for what filter to use, in looking over the price tags on the filters that we stock, it appears that the ones labled Yanmar are more frequently less costly than Fram. I had one customer who claims that, when a generic oil filter blew up on a relatively new Yanmar, he was denied Yanmar warranty repair. I talked to Fram about the situation and they stated that had it been one of theirs that failed, they would have borne the cost of repair. Looking at the cost factors, say a Yanmar filter costs $8.00 and you can get brand-x for $6.50, you will save about $1.50 a year on filters. You then propose using synthetic oil, say three quarts per change, at about $1.00 per quart more. You are down $1.50 (or more if you have an engine that requires more oil). I would stick with the manufacturer's recommendations. Although I do sell the Yanmar filters, that is not the motivation for the statement.
Yanmar states and emphatic NO to synthetic lubricating oil. They don't expand on their reasons but it sounds like they mean it. They make it grounds for voiding the warranty so if you are a devout beliver in synthetics, hold off for the first two years. They also highly recommend the 15W40 oils that have been formulated for diesel use. I concur with the above but I do question the Yanmar position that says to change the lube oil filter every second oil change. I think I would prefer it the other way around. As for what filter to use, in looking over the price tags on the filters that we stock, it appears that the ones labled Yanmar are more frequently less costly than Fram. I had one customer who claims that, when a generic oil filter blew up on a relatively new Yanmar, he was denied Yanmar warranty repair. I talked to Fram about the situation and they stated that had it been one of theirs that failed, they would have borne the cost of repair. Looking at the cost factors, say a Yanmar filter costs $8.00 and you can get brand-x for $6.50, you will save about $1.50 a year on filters. You then propose using synthetic oil, say three quarts per change, at about $1.00 per quart more. You are down $1.50 (or more if you have an engine that requires more oil). I would stick with the manufacturer's recommendations. Although I do sell the Yanmar filters, that is not the motivation for the statement.
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