Offical Newbie Intro

[Scott B]

I've lurked and occasionally posted on this board for the past few years. I've used the search function extensively for the past few months and now, FINALLY, I can join in as the ink just dried on the purchase of our first sailboat a 2005 Hunter 33.Currently the boat is in Lake Ontario, but we are shipping it to Georgian Bay. We used to sit on the beach after we first got married near Parry Sound and watch the sailboats come in and anchor in the bay, thinking we'd love to be out there and doing that. Now this summer we are headed up there to do just that after 23 years.I've sailed on a CS33 for 20 years, including club races, but was not my boat, so have no concerns about handling a boat this size. I love the reactions of people when we tell them we bought a 33 ft. as our first boat..... priceless. We've also spent many summers in Georgian Bay region at a friends cottage, so are very familiar with the area.So, I'll be much more active with lots of questions as I don't know much as far as regular maintenance, bottom paint to use etc., etc. First question, and I have searched this extensively on the archives, is what type of anchor to use in this region. I've narrowed it down to either a CQR, a Bruce or Fortress or maybe a Manson..... help????And I'll have to work on our contribution to the "Boat Babe" thread, which is my plan for the summer. Scott.....H33 Sunset Chaser

 

[Bill Roosa]

Look port and starboard

Like most things sailing, local knowledge is key to success. I'd take a survey of "boats that anchor out" and see what they use. All the anchors you listed are good anchors and all have their strengths and weaknesses. Without local knowledge I'd just be guessing.I think that is why cruising boats have such a large inventory of ground tackle. They never know what they are getting into and need the "Full Monty"

 

[BobW]

Best way to start an argument, bar none!

Scott, for every person who passionately advocates one particular type of anchor, there will be at least 3 who just as passionately disagree. Be prepared!Georgian Bay.... Lake Huron.... sounds like a lot of mud bottoms and some sand.You'll probably want at least 2 anchors, since no single anchor will handle all bottoms.Fluke anchors, like the Fortress, perform well in sand and soft mud, but not so well in grass, rock or clay.CQR is expensive, but holds well in grass and is OK in rocks (no anchor works particularly well in rocks, for obvious reasons). So do spade and Delta.I'm also a proponent of 'bigger is better', not that weight is the key - once the anchor hits bottom, its weight is immaterial - but a bigger anchor is stronger and has more surface area to dig into the bottom.So, my suggestion:35# Delta Fast-set - WM price $26515# Fortress aluminum WM price $309Both are a size larger than most people would put on a boat your size, but especially that Fortress will hold like crazy.You won't go wrong with the next smaller of each anchor, but that IS your pride and joy, isn't it? These anchors weigh a total of about 15 pounds more than the next smaller size - that's about the weight of a case of beer, eh?Use the Delta as your everyday anchor - it will fit well on a bow roller. The Fortress disassembles (they even come with a handy storage bag) for easy storage in a lazarette locker, and when you find a condition - such as soft mud - where the Delta just won't set, haul it out, put it together and let it do its thing.Congratulations on your new boat. Cheers,Bobs/v X SAIL R 8

 

[PrincessoftheLake]

Congratulations!

You bought a 33 footer for your first boat-way to go! I am so excited that you bought a Hunter. My husband and I had 1985 Hunter 34 for three years and just last October bought a 1995 Hunter 40.5. We sail on Lake Superior in the Apostle Islands but I have heard wonderful things about Georgian Bay. I am sure that you will find this board to be the place to come to with questions and problems. Don't forget to check out the Hunter Owner Forums too. They are also very helpful. I am sure we are all looking forward to a picture of your boat babe. How lucky you are have one!

 

[Scott B]

Thanks

Bill, thanks. When we were up to the marina last weekend to settle on the slip, I spoke to another avid sailer that suggested the CQR, after I had was almost set on a Bruce as suggested by the broker. There is a wine and cheese party in May so may wait until then and canvas the "locals" for their favorite.Bob, thanks for the input. I may end up with a couple of my favorites.Princess.... yeah we're all very excited... can't wait for the ice to melt, even though I'm an avid skier. My wife has always liked the Hunters and I like the design and all the features they are putting on the new boats.

 

[Chuck]

Great area

First, join the Georgian Bay Hunter Association, great group and very knowledgeable in the area. They will have one or more rendezvous this summer. We sail a H336 out of Windsor, and have been through GB and North Channel several times. We have had good luck with 33 lb Bruce anchor. Get the small craft charts, they are invaluable for that area. We have taken that route from Midland to Parry Sound, Byng Inlet and on to Killarney. Good Luck, enjoy.Chuck

 

[Stu Jackson]

Welcome, Scott

Unless you are NOT planning to anchor soon, your plan has merit. If you're taking your boat out, you need an anchor, so why not buy one now, see how it works for you and then decide on others.

 

[Ross]

There are always used anchors on the market

and anchors are sorta like manhole covers, they never wear out. I sail the Chesapeake bay and if you do a same scale overlay you find that Georgia Bay is about the same size as the Chesapeake. The big difference being the we don't have as many rocks! ;D

 

[Fred]

Bruce or CQR is my advice. As noted

you will get lots of strong opinions on anchors. I like to have regular anchor like in pictures of anchors. We call them long line anchors here because the long line fishermen use them. Also called a Hershoff (or however you spell the name) pattern. They're cheap where commercial fisheries supplies are sold, and they dig thorugh weed like nothing else. I have a 12 pounder that I use for a stern anchor or lunch hook (on a Hunter 26, or Catalina 27. It's always held, but I wouldn't use it on the bow in a storm.

 

[dpatrick]

an interesting anchor

appeared in sail magazine oct 06. manufactured by anchorconcepts.com. looks like they were testing in sandy bottom, but showed quick sets and multiple 5,000lb pulls at 5:1 scope. the interesting thing about this anchor is that it only weighs 16lbs. according to sailmagazine.com 35'LOA with 10' beam in 60 knots wind will pull 3,600 lbs.

 

[Scott B]

Still ice on the pond

Stu, up here we still have ice on the bay and won't be out until April. I doubt we'll be anchoring overnight until June anyways so I still have time to do research. But we do intend to do a week in August, to go back to the beach we used to sit on and watch the boats, so will need something that I can trust.Fred, Yes I've noticed in my search of the archives that anchors generate a lot of passionate discussion.There is a big difference in the cost of the stainless steel vs. galvanized anchors. Is the stainless worth the extra $$.

 

[BobW]

I hope we can keep this discussion quiet....

and not attract the raging on-line battle between the designers of the Rocna and Spade. I got in the middle of their confrontation on the SSCA forum - they just kept going at each other nonstop.I enjoyed the article you posted, Maine Sail, and it had a lot of good information. When I got to the bottom and saw the comments inserted by the Rocna guy, I couldn't believe that a sailing magazine would let him do that.... then I realized that the Rocna guy had taken the article, added his comments, then posted it on HIS web-site in a PDF, to make it look like it was all part of the original article. Slick marketing, or shady? Yeah.I also noted that his graph that 'proves' the holding power of HIS anchor (amazing coincidence, eh?) has TWO catches in it:1. 'The values charted are ratios of holding power to relative anchor weight.'2. 'Results of aluminum anchors have been adjusted to allow comparison to steel anchors.'For the first 'catch', we all know that the actual WEIGHT of the anchor is immaterial to its ability to set and hold, so the 'fact' that his anchor weighs 2 lb less than the Spade only makes the chart favor him.I guess he had to put in the 'aluminum vs. steel' 'catch' because otherwise his fancy chart would make the Fortress look unbeatable because it holds just as well and weighs barely half as much. The Manson looks like a great anchor to me.... I'm thinking it will be my next one, when the boat-bucks allow.Whether it is necessary to use full throttle in reverse to set an anchor or half-throttle is open to discussion, but the critical part of this maneuver is to do it SLOWLY. Let the anchor set itself as you reverse dead-slow, until the boat stops, then gradually increase throttle as you watch your shore sights to make sure the boat is stationary. Catenary - and more precisely angulation - are important in determining holding power, but are only of paramount importance in all-chain rodes. For mixed rodes (mostly containing 20 to 50 feet of chain, the balance nylon) the rode is going to be essentially straight any time the wind is strong enough to make the anchor's holding power critical.That makes anchoring technique (proper set, scope, etc) and hardware (shackles, rode, chafe protection) the potential weak link in anchoring, and if not done right, these will mess up your boat long before the absolute holding power of the anchor comes into play.For the mathematically inclince, below is a link to a very detailed analysis of the forces that play on anchors and boats. I followed most of it, but my eyes glazed over in parts. ;DCheers,Bobs/v X SAIL R 8

 

[Malcolm Young]

Back to your anchoring grounds

Regarding types of anchor for Georgian Bay (and the North Channel). I have spent a great many weeks anchored in both. In the above cruising territory you can expect clay, mud (very frequently with weeds and occassional sand - (usually not particularly hard sand)). I have never dragged when on my primary anchor including over 60 knots of wind.First - lets talk about the anchors that you identified talking to cruisers experienced in Georgian Bay. The CQR does well in these type of bottoms. Both the CQR and the Bruce are commonly used and are reliable in most situations. Do not get a Danforth (Fortress) style - the bottoms are frequently weedy and/or have small rocks which jam between the flukes. In addition the Danforth (Fortess) style is flat it sits on top of/or gets fouled by the weeds that are often in the anchorages. As has been said - the Danforth (Fortress) style do not reset well as the flukes jam with a stone wedged between them. I know - my second anchor is a Danforth style - in its favour it sets very well in hard sand or clay - so well that you have trouble recovering it.My anchor of choice - since the early 80's has been the CQR. It works - if set properly and it sets well in weeds compared to others. I agree that at times it lies on its side and does not dig in. This is remedied by setting it properly. It has never dragged on me - ONCE PROPERLY SET by a procedure that is identical to that suggested by Maine Sail - except i take the engine up to 2300 rpm - which is cruising rpm on my 35hp diesel. I also agree that the CQR does not set in hard sand without some difficulty. That is why I bought the Danforth style.One comment - I have read every anchor test in Practical Sailor and any other tests that I come across - keep in mind that these tests are generally carried out in a particular type of bottom and that bottom is often not what you will be anchoring in. You have already checked this out with cruisers experienced in your area and they indicated that CQR and Bruce are the anchors of choice. This has been true over the past 25+ years.Having said all that - given that it is now 2007 and the Rocna and Manson Supreme are now available - I would go for one of them based on Maine Sail's recommendations and based on the tests I have read. Of the two I might side towards the Rocna - one comment that is made by the Rocna designer is that the Manson has a much wider shank due to the slot which runs the length of the shank. This makes it harder to turn the anchor over as the shank enters the roller if the anchor comes up upside down - which happens frequently. By the way the Manson slot (which you don't have to use) is an old idea so that you can pull the anchor out backwards whether you want to our not. Think about it - do you want the anchor to come out when the wind changes in the middle of the night?).After all that verbage - I generally agree with Maine Sail. I would favour the Rocna but don't get a Danforth (Fortress) style as it won't work reliably with most bottoms you encounter in your cruising area. In fact, I think that I may personally get a Rocna as a second (or possibly first anchor) to replace my Danforth Style anchor. I will keep my old reliable CQR.I do agree with the recommendation to get 40 or 50' of 5/16" chain (it will weigh 40 or 50 pounds and will help keep the pull on the anchor more horizontal except in hurricanes). It also takes the abrasion from dragging the rode across rocks as you swing. Finally (if you can) set out 7 times as much rode as the height from your bow chock to the bottom and as has been said very clearly earlier in the thread - set your anchor with gradually applied power - once set it should hold at near full power.I just looked up the Rocna direct ordering site for my use - here it is http://www.suncoastmarine.ca/aboutus.htmlEdit addition: Regarding stainless anchors - they look nice but in fresh water, I don't think they are worth the money. A properly galvanized anchor in fresh water will last a very long time but it will not look nice and shiny.

 

[MKing]

Opinion Please

A couple of you guys seem to be anchor junkies so if I might impose I would value your opinions. My usual area is almost exclusively mud with occasional soft clay. I recently purchased a stainless Delta for a primary and moved my fortress to the stern. The Delta is on a swivel with thirty feet of chain and 200 feet of double braid (30' boat) I was taught to deploy and set my anchor much like you have described. Any caveats on the Delta? Thanks...Michael

 

[Scott B]

Thank you!!

Wow, lots of great information, I appreciate the time you have all taken to reply on this. Especially on a topic that has been discussed numerous times in the past and like I said, I did search and read quite a lot of archived threads.I was vaguely familiar with the proper technique of setting the anchor, but having it explained more in depth, helps considerably.I had seen the article on the anchor comparisons, but could not make up my mind which was the best being unfamiliar with anchoring theory. Interesting info BTW, on the theory of anchoring, I started to read it but my head started spinning. Far too much on my mind right now with buying the boat, insurance, shipping the boat, docking, a new anchor, etc.I've sent an e-mail to the Canadian supplier of the Rocna to price shipping to Ontario, and will look for the Manson supplier. My wife thought at first the price of the Rocna was high, but reconsidered after I explained to her that it's not $4 - 500 we're spending but protecting $ 150,000.I had asked the broker where we bought the boat about an anchor and he had priced a Bruce with 50 ft. of chain. I was questioning if that was too much chain. After your responses, I will definitely go with the 50 ft and probably 200 ft. of line.Again, thanks for all your responses. It's great to see people passionate about anchoring and all their personal research. I too believe in getting a good (and undisturbed) nights sleep.Scott

 

[Scott B]

Anchor update

Just ordered the Rocna 15 kg. galv. anchor from Vancouver, shipping was only $35, and will be getting 50 ft. of 5/16" chain and 200' of anchor line.Thanks for all the help and suggestions.I'll let you know at the end of the summer how well it works.Scott