ODay 25 Swing Keel Slot

Joe11688 · Sep 10, 2009

Gudenuph said:
I'm thinking of raising my O'Day 25 to enable swing keel maintenance. I'd like to know the position of the slot opening relative to the stub keel. How far aft of the forward end of the stub keel does the slot begin and how close to the aft end of the stub keel does the slot end? I'm hoping to support the boat on each end of the stub keel, along with poppets to prevent tipping. Is there another way to support the boat other than keel blocking?
Thank you very much, George

George,
I have always been able to raise my O'Day 222 with my sailboat stands. Of course, boat stands aren't supposed to be used to raise a sailboat, but I have always taken extra precautions when doing this by shoring up under the stern and the bow portion of the hull with blocked up 6X6s. I also have the keel shored up to within a couple of inches. With that said; I once raised the stern of my friend's O'Day 26 with four of my boat stands. We were trying to move the trailer over a couple of inches because the boat was on a little off center on the keel board and the tide had gone down too low to back down the ramp again. I raised the bow of his boat with a hydraulic jack from the ground, and we were able to slide the trailer a little, to center the boat. The jacks pads under the stern were causing a slight oil can effect on the hull. If the jack pads and wood blocking are placed under the stern in an area of solid reinforcement such as a rear bulkhead, I think that you may be able to support the hull with the wood blocking in front of and in back of the keel, with the four boat stands holding the boat from tipping over. I don't have to remind you that this can be dangerous if certain precautions aren't taken. I plan on taking my boat off the trailer next week and putting it on stands so that I can paint the bottom in the spring. Two years ago I raised the hull and removed the centerboard to check the pivot pin and paint the inside slot. I thought about trying to support the boat with blocking under the front and rear portions of the keel, but decided against this idea. Having the blocking under the hull is a whole lot safer, I think. I've been taking my boat on and off my trailer since I bought it new in 1986. It was easier back then with the roller trailer. It takes more time to do with a flat bunk trailer. I use landscape wood blocks and power company cross arms of about 3 to 4 feet long. I also made wooden wedges out of cross arm blocks by cutting the block on a diagonal. These come in real handy for taking up small gaps. Pieces of rug are used in between the hull and blocks or jack pads. Plenty of blocks are required to take every precaution to insure that nothing goes wrong. As I pointed out, working with weights such as these can be dangerous and you're better off having someone with you who knows rigging or is familiar with it, such as a power company lineman or a rigger.
Joe

RichBone · Sep 11, 2009

It might be possible to raise the boat straight up on the trailer and put blocking between the bunks or rollers and the hull. Then block up the keel.
The centerboard is about 16" wide so you only need to raise it so much.

From my experience of using bottle jacks, if that's what you're using, I would recommend at least an 8 ton jack. A 4 ton will not lift 8000#. It might hold it but it won't lift it.
Rich

Joe11688 · Sep 12, 2009

RBone said:
It might be possible to raise the boat straight up on the trailer and put blocking between the bunks or rollers and the hull. Then block up the keel.
The centerboard is about 16" wide so you only need to raise it so much.

From my experience of using bottle jacks, if that's what you're using, I would recommend at least an 8 ton jack. A 4 ton will not lift 8000#. It might hold it but it won't lift it.
Rich

That would work for lifting the boat Rich, but whether he'd have enough room to remove the keel plates is questionable. I had to use an impact driver to remove two stubborn bolts but if I had to do it over again, I'd use an impact type cordless electric drill with a Phillips fitting in the chuck. I wouldn't use bottle jacks either. His boat is heavier than mine, so he'll need some heavy duty lifting gear. One of the guys in my YC uses his back hoe to lift the bow of his O'Day 25 after he gets the stern up beyond the bunks of the trailer, with blocks holding the weight, and boat stands to steady it. Then he pulls the trailer out from under the boat. Actually, you wouldn't need to take the trailer all the way out from under the boat. If he could get the keel past the back of the trailer, he may be able to block up the hull under the bow by using the trailer. The blocks would need to be placed on the trailer, over the axles though. Whether you're trying to raise a 222 or a 25, it's still dangerous and it requires a thought out plan involving someone who is familiar with moving large heavy objects. My oldest son works for a rigging company and he probably has more knowledge on this subject than I do. I know that Rick Appleman has taken his O'Day 25 or 26 off the trailer by himself and put it on blocks so it's doable.
Joe

Joe11688 · Sep 12, 2009

What say you, George? Are you up to tackling it? I can always ask my friend how he does it. I do know that he uses the front end loader with the backhoe from the farm that he works at, but I'm not exactly sure about the other steps that he takes to get his trailer out from under it. Any thoughts or questions?
Joe

Joe11688 · Sep 12, 2009

Gudenuph said:
O dear, it's me again in the painful grip of procrastination and uncertainty. My concern in lifting the O'Day 25 off of its trailer is the matter of transverse stability. Assuming the worst case where the center of gravity is well above the points of support, a small amount of differential settlement among the supports could mean disaster.
My thinking now is to jack and crib both trailer and boat to the required elevation, placing sturdy craddles under the boat fore and aft, lower and remove the trailer. The extra work should improve the safety and confidence levels quite a bit. Have you ever heard of such a plan? While we are about it, how about careening the boat on the beach at high tide and dig as necessary to lower the keel?
Chicken George

George,
Yes, I've heard of a couple of guys on the forum doing that and also my friend Norman told me that he did that to his Mac 26 in his yard. It's doable, but either way it's still dangerous. The safest way is to have them lift the boat at the boatyard. One of my friends on the forum had this done to his 222. When they lifted his boat he let the centerboard down and discovered that there was a chunk taken out of his centerboard. So he removed the centerboard and they put the boat back in the water. He used the boat for the rest of the season without the centerboard. During the winter, he let the centerboard dry out near his boiler in the cellar, and made the necessary repairs to it in the spring.
When I take my boat off the trailer, I set the boat's keel on the blocks as soon as possible. The whole weight of my boat is on that keel sitting on blocks of wood which are criss crossed for stability. The stands only keep the boat from tipping over sideways. Two stands can be taken out from under the boat at any time, and moved to anywhere I want to put them. The boat won't tip forward unless someone is on the boat and walks to the bow. Otherwise, as long as the boat is sitting on it's keel and the boat is not leaning sideways, it's safe. I am able to raise my boat with my four sailboat stands spaced about 6' apart, so that the keel is off the blocks. I wouldn't try doing this on an O'Day 25 because of the weight involved, but if you put your blocks under the hull in the stern and also block up just forward of the keel, I believe that four sailboat stands set up close together in the stern will raise the stern of your boat. A good hydraulic jack under the bow of the boat will raise the bow, but it should be done all at the same time if possible. As you raise the boat, you keep shoring up the wood blocks to keep them close to the hull. At no time will you be under the boat near the keel jacking it up. Don't do anything that you're not comfortable with George. Find out what it would cost to have it lifted. Perhaps the yard can set it up so that you can take your time and do what you need to do. Bite the bullet, so to speak, for your own piece of mind. I've been taking my boats off the trailers since the mid 1970s and I've done it so often that it's become "Old Hat" for me. So I understand your concern because for one thing, you've never done it before, and for another, your boat is a heck of a lot heavier than mine. Only you can make the call George. You're not chicken, you're cautious, and you should be. One wrong move could ruin your whole day.
Joe

Joe11688 · Sep 13, 2009

Gudenuph said:
Thanks again, Joe. I think I'm persuaded to have the yard put the 25 on jacks high enough to swing the keel down at least during this first time. After I get to know the boat better I'll try raising it on its own trailer. Present thinking is to use the double fulcrum method and blocking under the trailer frame just abaft and before the tandum wheels. This will provide a good wide thwartship base, a reasonable fore and aft base and allow the use of smaller jacks due to the cantilevered weight fore and aft. (Like a teeter totter with two pivots spaced apart) Theoretically, if the pivots were close enough together one could just grab the bow and hobby horse the boat up, a VERY DANGEROUS concept.
Well, thanks for your ear and your advise.
George

There you go! I knew that you'd make the right call George. What you said about "getting to know your boat better", is the key that will give you the confidence to do it later on. Let us know how you made out in removing the board with maybe some pics of it too. Good Luck!
Joe

ODay 25 Swing Keel Slot

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