Oday 25 - remove the fiberglass headliner

Golden Road · Jun 18, 2012

headliner

Wow, if the 25 is built anything like the 23, removal would be a huge job of cutting fiberglass (carefully, just through the liner). And I'm sure its bonded to the cabin top anyway so it wouldn't come free anyway. I'd chase leaks topside for a lifetime before I attempted to remove the liner. How many leak sites can there be? Not reallly that many I don't think...

anchorclanker · Jun 18, 2012

Joe5893 said:
Has anyone ever removed the fiberglass headliner in their Oday? If so, how did you do it? I didn't see any screws or bolts holding it in place - maybe I didn't look close enough. I am hoping it isn't molded into the boat as part of the hull where it would need to be cut out.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts,

Joe

My 222 has a leak to starboard as well. I have no idea where, but its likely the starboard side glass, the chainplate, or one of the life line stanchions. I think its doubtful the hull would leak through without the structure becoming very soft, which would be very noticeable.

Yes, you would have to separate the two sections. Probably best to find the external leak.

Ritdog · Jun 18, 2012

Joe, you really don't want to do that- it will trash your boat. I have a 25, and have cut one up (literally) and it's all bonded up dther. There are some small spaces, but the wiring is all stuck to the clamshell, and it's bonded to the deck. When I got mine, we took EVERYTHING off the deck, epoxy cored the holes, and rebedded everything with backplates added. We still have a small leak over the SB counter top ( everybody has this leak- I think it's built in to give us something to do) but think that is coming from the handrails..maybe the toe rail. If you haven't rebedded those, the sealer is probably shot. Our toe rails were DRY....live with it, wait till Fall, pull out, and get into it. It will make you feel better.

Sunbird22358 · Jun 18, 2012

If you did remove the liner to fix the leak on the inside.....water will still find it's way in on the outside. Since you will have sealed up the spot where it had been seeping out of the deck, the water will now either find another spot to drip from...or even worse, might just remain trapped in the deck laminate, rotting out the balsa core of the deck. You ALWAYS want to seal any leaks from the outside first to keep the water outside.

My $0.02

Joe11688 · Jun 18, 2012

Joe5893 said:
I did a search on the forums and couldn't find anything on this topic. I have leaks and the water runs down the inside of the fiberglass headliner inside the boat dripping all over the starboard side. This makes it very tough to determine exactly where the leak is coming from. I have found several postings on what/how to rebed to stop leaks, but I am in the water and really don't want to mess around rebedding everything if the leak is in an isolated area, I would rather find the leak inside the boat, and the only way I can think to do this is to remove the headliner.

Has anyone ever removed the fiberglass headliner in their Oday? If so, how did you do it? I didn't see any screws or bolts holding it in place - maybe I didn't look close enough. I am hoping it isn't molded into the boat as part of the hull where it would need to be cut out.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts,

Joe

Joe,
I've been in the cabins of some of these O'Day 25s and I can understand your concern about this.
My 86 O'Day 222 has a fabric headliner and knock on wood, I've been able to pin point every leak in the cabin by feeling or seeing it inside the cabin in order to fix it fast. Speaking for myself, I would much rather have a fabric headliner any day for that reason. I'm told that a good percentage of the bolts that hold the deck hardware on the 25 are hidden behind the fiberglass headliner. My question it, how do you go about rebedding this hardware if the nuts, and back-up plates are not accessible?

Removing your fiberglass headliner and going to fabric is a hard decision to make and if it's possible, you know that it's going to involve a lot of work.

I removed every piece of wood in my cabin several years ago, bulkheads, galley sink and cabinet. You name it and I removed it. That cabin was bare when I got through, but it made it a lot easier for me to redo all the wood to a dark red Mahogany color stain and varnish it. There would be no way to change the color of my cabin without doing this. My headliner is beige rug material. I'm afraid that whatever you decide to do is going to have to be your call. I'm not going to tell you not to do it because logical thinking tells me that it's easier to find out where deck leaks are coming from by checking inside the boat. This is the way I've always found them and it's always worked for me. Either way, it's still going to present a challenge. Good luck with this Joe.

RichBone · Jun 19, 2012

Could also be leaking from the rubrail.

Rich

Ritdog · Jun 19, 2012

Joe (Trinkka) - the 25s bolts/nuts are all accessable from inside. The stanchions and blocks all pass through into the cabin, as do the bow cleat and chafing gear bolts (machine screws). There are a couple of things that are not acessable, but those are screwed in, e.g.: toe rails, companionway slider, etc. The mainsheet traveller screws at the cockpit are hidden up there, but readily acessable with an extension. It's really not too bad. MY complaint is the overhead wiring built into the cabin headliner. If you want to add a line to the mast, let's say, you are running it through the deck by drilling holes next to the mast and using surface wiring in the head space. All the other wiring can run along the headliner edge, by packing it up in there.

Joe11688 · Jun 19, 2012

It's great that the stanchions and most of the hardware is accessible on the OD 25 as it should be, but I've found on my boat that most of my leaks came from the toe rail, or the gunwale strip. Both of them are secured with wood screws.

All my wiring is under the rug head liner too. Years ago I added a steaming light to my mast which necessitated another pair of wires. I wound up running these wires along side of a coax cable that I had run along a partially hidden area on the headliner.
Last year I reached into that small cubby hole in the bow of the cabin to get my hooded sweatshirt and I noticed that it was soaking wet from a leak coming in from a screw in the toe rail. At first, I thought it was coming in from the gunwale molding so I removed the moldings on that side of the boat and cleaned and caulked them. After I got everything back together, I ran the garden hose over the bow of the boat to check it for leaks which was probably what I should have done in the beginning, and I discovered that I still had water coming in. I reached in with my hand and I could feel the moisture in that raised molded portion of the deck in which the narrow toe rail is screwed. So for this reason I'm glad that I have the fabric liner.
However, I did make one observation that I can pass on to you and others concerning the toe rails. Sometimes a screw holding the toe rail will pop up a little and you may be able to see a gap under that portion of the toe rail, or if you can grab the toe rail with your thumb and fore finger and wiggle it, you've found the culprit.

In most cases I've been able to remove the bung and screw, and get a putty knife under it and use a thin shaved Popsicle stick to get some 3-M 4200 under it. I did the same thing to my Starboard hand rail a couple of months ago and it worked for me.
I also discovered a leak on one of my stanchion bolts this year and wound up removing the stanchion base and recaulking it, but leaks in stanchion bases are rare on my boat.

emergpa1 · Jun 19, 2012

Thats a BAD idea

The reason there are not posts on removing the had liner is that it shouldn't and probably couldn't be done. The molded in and permanently attached liner is critical, yes critical to hull stability and overall seaworthiness of the oday 26/26, and probably others as well (Joe i am surprised at you even hinting that it might be a good idea. :naughty: )

You can find the leak by flooding your hardware with a garden hose from the topsides. There will almost always be some moisure on the nuts and bolts inside, if the thing is leaking. By paying careful attention when someone is using a garden hose, or better yet sleeping on the boat on a rainy night, you can, if you know your boat well, pinpoint the leak. I am not saying it is easy, but you will be able to narrow it down or even isolate it.

BTW, Do not use a pressure washer to clean the deck of you boat, ever. The PSI is way higher than the adhesive ability of the marine sealents.

Regarding the rub rail and toe rail leaks, they are usually small and not a big issue to cabin dryness as they are not over cored deck, and they leak to the cabin liner, then run down the liner and drain aft of the rear bulkhead into the bilge to starboard, and further aft to port (on my 26). He is almost surely getting leaks for several areas if he has not reseated in the past four to five years. There is no way around removing and reseating the deck hardware, handrails, and mast plate if you are a new owner, and you have leaks. Besides, once you learn what you need to do it is easy as he!!

If you don't learn to do this, you will not be able to maintain your boat.

Joe11688 · Jun 19, 2012

(Joe i am surprised at you even hinting that it might be a good idea. :naughty: )

I'll try to look ashamed Keith.

Indysailor · Jun 19, 2012

Joe would remove the headliner, then fashion some mod to improve the structural integrity of the hull and deck...made from a blue tarp.

Joe11688 · Jun 19, 2012

Indysailor said:
Joe would remove the headliner, then fashion some mod to improve the structural integrity of the hull and deck...made from a blue tarp.

I thrive on fresh ideas don't sha' know.

All kidding aside though, I think Joe probably has an idea of the amount of work that would be involved after tearing out a molded headliner. It would involve the skills of an experienced marine cabinet maker.
Tearing it out would be a job within itself but fairing the inner shell to accept a head liner and reconstructing the interior with a new layout of cabinets and such would be a challenge to the ordinary DIY guy, me included.

One of my friends is a cabinet maker and he's also a boat nut. He's done cabinet work in the interior of his boats. Of course, having a workshop with all the power tools to do this kind of work helps in making the finished product a success.

emergpa1 · Jun 19, 2012

Trinkka said:
(Joe i am surprised at you even hinting that it might be a good idea. :naughty: )

I'll try to look ashamed Keith.

ha, no need joe. I liked indy's post, true true

cb32863 · Jun 20, 2012

My 1977 O'Day 25 has core under the toe rails and the screws are not covered by the headliner in the interior. Discovered they leaked after a nice heavy rain that got the fabric on the interior nice and wet. Redrilled and potted, will be dealing with the core in the fall.

Oday 25 - remove the fiberglass headliner

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