I have been sailing my "new" 1982 25 for a couple of months now and have a few questions. This is my first masthead rig boat and I am wondering how much sag the forestay should have, particularly in winds in the 15-20 knot range to keep the draft in the proper location on the jib. Mine appears to be in the 8 to 12 inch range. The draft in the jib is farther aft than I would like which I feel effects the boat's pointing ability adds to the weather helm. The sails, while in good shape for 20 years old, are likely a part of the problem, but before I buy new ones I want to get the forestay right. I am also concerned with getting too much tension in the rig since this is not exactly a racing machine set up for alot of tension. I have about 3/4 of an inch to go before bottoming out the forward turnbuckle. I have played with the mast rake and have pretty much let the back stay off as much as the turn buckle will allow and still get the saftey rings in. This has decreased the amount of weather helm and the boat easily tacks through 80 degrees, a big surprize given this is a center boarder. Another question. Has anyone purchased sails from the Oday folks at D&R marine? I tend to go with local sailmakers, but the pricing at Oday is tempting. Overall, I really love this boat. It is the perfect size to single hand and has lots of well thought out space inside. Mine is in mint condition inside and out since it spent most of its years on the finger lakes in New York where it was out of the water most of the year (The Texas sun is really hard on boats). This boat is my cruiser and I race my Laser when I need a performance fix. Having said that, I still want to get maximum performance out of whatever boat I sail and will do several regatta's a year in this boat in the Main and Jib fleet. Thanks for your help. Tim Fletcher
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Geof Tillotson
Interested in your findings
Tim - I too am interested in the rig tension for my "new" 1976 O'Day 25 c/b. It also has the older sails and I'm looking at a replacement main and genoa this winter. I have a roller furler up front so I don't notice any forestay sag, but I'm interested in "tuning" a little to see if I can get better up wind performance. I also have access to a Laser that I sail very agressively and find that the two are worlds apart. With regards to weather helm, I've been experimenting with a technique that I got from Colgates book on sailing. I used to use it with other c/b boats I've sailed. When the boat is really acting up (trying to round up in heavier conditions) raising the c/b somewhat and the boat seems to be less ready to round up. Of course, it does seem counter-intuitive to decrease your verticle depth while healing, but it does move the center of lateral resistance aft, thus reducing some of the weather helm. I've raised the board what I estimate to be about 20% on the pennant and seem to be able to get a little "closer" to the wind. This is purely empirical though. Also, it's August here in the Northeast and the wind tends to move around alot, so it's sometimes hard to tell if changing the c/b trim is helping/hurting or if I'm getting lifted or headed. Anyway, theory says that to raise the board half way is how to go, but I'm not willing to try that in anything larger than a dinghy that I don't mind dumping. Anyway, good luck with your 25. We love ours, it gives us a chance to spend time together as a family away from the chores and worries of home. Geof s/v Day-O
Tim - I too am interested in the rig tension for my "new" 1976 O'Day 25 c/b. It also has the older sails and I'm looking at a replacement main and genoa this winter. I have a roller furler up front so I don't notice any forestay sag, but I'm interested in "tuning" a little to see if I can get better up wind performance. I also have access to a Laser that I sail very agressively and find that the two are worlds apart. With regards to weather helm, I've been experimenting with a technique that I got from Colgates book on sailing. I used to use it with other c/b boats I've sailed. When the boat is really acting up (trying to round up in heavier conditions) raising the c/b somewhat and the boat seems to be less ready to round up. Of course, it does seem counter-intuitive to decrease your verticle depth while healing, but it does move the center of lateral resistance aft, thus reducing some of the weather helm. I've raised the board what I estimate to be about 20% on the pennant and seem to be able to get a little "closer" to the wind. This is purely empirical though. Also, it's August here in the Northeast and the wind tends to move around alot, so it's sometimes hard to tell if changing the c/b trim is helping/hurting or if I'm getting lifted or headed. Anyway, theory says that to raise the board half way is how to go, but I'm not willing to try that in anything larger than a dinghy that I don't mind dumping. Anyway, good luck with your 25. We love ours, it gives us a chance to spend time together as a family away from the chores and worries of home. Geof s/v Day-O
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Tim Fletcher
Oday 25 C/B trim
Thanks, Geoff. I'll try raising the board next time out. I just wonder how much additional leeway I'll end up making. Still, definitely worth a look, particularly when just cruising around. Tim
Thanks, Geoff. I'll try raising the board next time out. I just wonder how much additional leeway I'll end up making. Still, definitely worth a look, particularly when just cruising around. Tim
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Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Headstay sag
Sounds like you have too much headstay sag - the riggers I've spoken to (an admittedly small sample at about four) suggest about 3 inches as a good starting point - then dynamic tuning to get the rest of the way. Headstay sag controls fullness in the middle and top. More sag adds fullness, moves the draft forward slightly, and makes the entry rounder. Whenever your boat needs more power, some headstay sag can be beneficial. It sounds like something else is going on with your sail because you describe the COE as too far aft. Is the mast centered fore and aft? If so I would take start cranking up some backstay tension. Since you still have some travel in the headstay I would try one turn of headstay tension then two turns backstay and so on. This should help flatten the sail. As you point out you don't want to over do it. I saw a boat last summer that had a bad compression post. Poor owner drove the mast through the deck. Made a heck of a noise I'm told. You should not go much tighter than a settting at which a twenty pound push at shoulder level deflects the stay about an inch. In order to flatten the sail try moving the genoa lead cars back on the track. This should make the sail more effective if its bagged out. Of course you should also tighten any lines built into the sail (leech, luff, foot). Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Sounds like you have too much headstay sag - the riggers I've spoken to (an admittedly small sample at about four) suggest about 3 inches as a good starting point - then dynamic tuning to get the rest of the way. Headstay sag controls fullness in the middle and top. More sag adds fullness, moves the draft forward slightly, and makes the entry rounder. Whenever your boat needs more power, some headstay sag can be beneficial. It sounds like something else is going on with your sail because you describe the COE as too far aft. Is the mast centered fore and aft? If so I would take start cranking up some backstay tension. Since you still have some travel in the headstay I would try one turn of headstay tension then two turns backstay and so on. This should help flatten the sail. As you point out you don't want to over do it. I saw a boat last summer that had a bad compression post. Poor owner drove the mast through the deck. Made a heck of a noise I'm told. You should not go much tighter than a settting at which a twenty pound push at shoulder level deflects the stay about an inch. In order to flatten the sail try moving the genoa lead cars back on the track. This should make the sail more effective if its bagged out. Of course you should also tighten any lines built into the sail (leech, luff, foot). Justin - O'day Owners' Web
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Ed
How do you adjust the head sail tension?
How do you adjust the headstay tension if you have a roller furling?
How do you adjust the headstay tension if you have a roller furling?
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Tim Fletcher
tightening rf headstay
Since I don't have a rf system I don't know. I assume you would have to remove the furling drum so you could tighten the turnbuckle at the stem. By the way, I did make some adjustments last night, but the wind was so light it was hard to tell how much things have changed, but I feel better about the tension in the rig. It was definitely to slack before.
Since I don't have a rf system I don't know. I assume you would have to remove the furling drum so you could tighten the turnbuckle at the stem. By the way, I did make some adjustments last night, but the wind was so light it was hard to tell how much things have changed, but I feel better about the tension in the rig. It was definitely to slack before.
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EJ Tews
New Sails
Hello Tim, I have bought many things from Rudy at D&R Marine. I did buy a new head sail this past Spring from Davis Lindsey at Cameran Sails in Kehma, Tx. I have been very happy with the sail. I Bought a 150 Genoa for a new CDI Roller Furling on my O'Day 25. The Head sail was made by Neil Pryde sails, the OEM for O'Day. Hope this helps. EJ Tews O'Day 25 _/) Jennifer Lea
Hello Tim, I have bought many things from Rudy at D&R Marine. I did buy a new head sail this past Spring from Davis Lindsey at Cameran Sails in Kehma, Tx. I have been very happy with the sail. I Bought a 150 Genoa for a new CDI Roller Furling on my O'Day 25. The Head sail was made by Neil Pryde sails, the OEM for O'Day. Hope this helps. EJ Tews O'Day 25 _/) Jennifer Lea
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Joe Barrett
Headstay sag
On my O'day 272 I solved the headstay sag problem by tightening the backstay! It improved close hauled performance a lot and gave the mast a nice aft rake! The boat performed much better with the backstay honked down!
On my O'day 272 I solved the headstay sag problem by tightening the backstay! It improved close hauled performance a lot and gave the mast a nice aft rake! The boat performed much better with the backstay honked down!
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Tim Fletcher
New rig adjustments
Well, last night the wind finally blew in Dallas and I got a chance to test my new rig settings. I had about 15 to 20 MPH aparant over the deck beating with the 150 and full main. Weather helm was greatly reduced, althought I had to feather up when the wind hit the 18-20 range to avoid stalling the rudder. Prior to changing my set up, this would happen around 15 MPH. Basically, the rig has the same tension as before, but he mast is raked further forward. The back stay is out just about as far as possible and still get the saftey rings in the turnbuckle. The forestay could be tighened down another inch total, but I am concerned about putting that much load on the rig. Forestay sag is now around 4 or 5 inches at the above wind speeds. In anything over 20 aparant, or 15 true, I will need to go to the working jib, unless racing when I will dump the main in the puffs. I have a 65% storm jib I have yet to use, but feel it will come out on those days when it gets to 25 to 30 true. I have yet to play with reefed main combinations with the 150 or working jib in a breeze. Any experience out there? In other classes with fractional rigs, we often carried the largest headsail to weather with a reef main and then shook out the reef off the wind. With the size of the 150 on this boat and the small main, I am not sure that would work. I would love to hear what the rest of you are doing. Tim
Well, last night the wind finally blew in Dallas and I got a chance to test my new rig settings. I had about 15 to 20 MPH aparant over the deck beating with the 150 and full main. Weather helm was greatly reduced, althought I had to feather up when the wind hit the 18-20 range to avoid stalling the rudder. Prior to changing my set up, this would happen around 15 MPH. Basically, the rig has the same tension as before, but he mast is raked further forward. The back stay is out just about as far as possible and still get the saftey rings in the turnbuckle. The forestay could be tighened down another inch total, but I am concerned about putting that much load on the rig. Forestay sag is now around 4 or 5 inches at the above wind speeds. In anything over 20 aparant, or 15 true, I will need to go to the working jib, unless racing when I will dump the main in the puffs. I have a 65% storm jib I have yet to use, but feel it will come out on those days when it gets to 25 to 30 true. I have yet to play with reefed main combinations with the 150 or working jib in a breeze. Any experience out there? In other classes with fractional rigs, we often carried the largest headsail to weather with a reef main and then shook out the reef off the wind. With the size of the 150 on this boat and the small main, I am not sure that would work. I would love to hear what the rest of you are doing. Tim
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Ken Mahren
CB adjustment
Moving the CB aft most definitely reduces weatherhelm... Center of resistence moved aft puts more "push" on the foresail... use that technique whenever wind starts to really blow. Ken Mahren Miss"T" Oday25 Lake Champlain, Vt. Follow link for pics http://home.adelphia.net/~kmahren/
Moving the CB aft most definitely reduces weatherhelm... Center of resistence moved aft puts more "push" on the foresail... use that technique whenever wind starts to really blow. Ken Mahren Miss"T" Oday25 Lake Champlain, Vt. Follow link for pics http://home.adelphia.net/~kmahren/
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