Looking to replace a 6HP Johnson Sailmaster on my 1978 Oday 23 that seems to have the original engine bracket. I see in the specs for the models around mine that the recommended outboards topped at 15HP. I have been looking at 4 strokes with electric start. The smallest one is an 8HP that weighs 84 lbs. Any ideas/ comments on whether the original Oday Motor brackets were designed to hold this kind of weight. I, obviously, have no clue what a 15 hp 2 stroke engine would have weighed in 1978 to back into the answer from that direction. Anyone tried one of the newer (lighter weight) 4 strokes on an Oday bracket?
Oday 23 outboard size and weight
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four stroke 8hp Nissan long shaft
I put mine on the bracket that was on the boat (74 023) when I bought it. I do not know if this was the standard bracket, but I have been using it for a year with no problems. It had a 74 9.9 2 stroke merc that was 20 lbs lighter before I changed. I think it may be a Garelick and looking at the Garelick site this mount is not recommended for four stroke motors. I had gone on the assumption that it was designed to hold up to a 15hp and would be fine, maybe I was wrong. The mount seems to assist in raising the motor pretty easily. I am interested in what other people think about these old motor mounts.
I put mine on the bracket that was on the boat (74 023) when I bought it. I do not know if this was the standard bracket, but I have been using it for a year with no problems. It had a 74 9.9 2 stroke merc that was 20 lbs lighter before I changed. I think it may be a Garelick and looking at the Garelick site this mount is not recommended for four stroke motors. I had gone on the assumption that it was designed to hold up to a 15hp and would be fine, maybe I was wrong. The mount seems to assist in raising the motor pretty easily. I am interested in what other people think about these old motor mounts.
Don't do it
The older mounting brackets are not designed to accomodate 4 strokes. Its not just the weight that is at issue; 4 strokes generate more torque than 2 strokes. The 4 stroke might be within the old bracket's weight limits and still cause you some damage. That extra torque can easily bend or break your bracket and crack the transom. Brackets designed to accomodate 4 strokes can handle the extra pushing at low rpms. Also, if your bracket is original equipment, it is probably due for replacement anyway. I have a '79 Oday 23, and if your mounting bracket is like mine was, your lift springs are shot, the wood is chewed up (if not rotten) and there is considerably more play in the unit's movement than is desireable. Call Rudy at D&R Marine; he hooked me up with a direct replacement that didn't require redrilling the mounting block/transom. Four new carriage bolts and I was done. BTW, I just repowered last season with a Nissan 2 stroke 8 hp long shaft w/electric start. I thought about going to a four stroke, but the Admiral was concerned that she would have trouble with raising or lowering the extra weight (the 2 stroke weighs less than 80 lbs., the smallest four w/elec. start weighs almost 120).
The older mounting brackets are not designed to accomodate 4 strokes. Its not just the weight that is at issue; 4 strokes generate more torque than 2 strokes. The 4 stroke might be within the old bracket's weight limits and still cause you some damage. That extra torque can easily bend or break your bracket and crack the transom. Brackets designed to accomodate 4 strokes can handle the extra pushing at low rpms. Also, if your bracket is original equipment, it is probably due for replacement anyway. I have a '79 Oday 23, and if your mounting bracket is like mine was, your lift springs are shot, the wood is chewed up (if not rotten) and there is considerably more play in the unit's movement than is desireable. Call Rudy at D&R Marine; he hooked me up with a direct replacement that didn't require redrilling the mounting block/transom. Four new carriage bolts and I was done. BTW, I just repowered last season with a Nissan 2 stroke 8 hp long shaft w/electric start. I thought about going to a four stroke, but the Admiral was concerned that she would have trouble with raising or lowering the extra weight (the 2 stroke weighs less than 80 lbs., the smallest four w/elec. start weighs almost 120).
Thanks re 2 v 4 stroke
Mike - thnks for the input. If the consideration were the old model 4 strokes at 130+ lbs., I'm not sure that I would have evn considered it. However, they have a new breed of 4 stroke out that is as low as 84 lbs. for the 8-9.9 HP models. How does the "Admiral" do with the Nissan? My two stroke alternatives all seem to weigh in in the mid-70's. Yes - wood is chewed on old mount and there is a bunch of play. If I were to replace the mount is it easy access and fix? Thanks for the info on the torque - had not really factored in the difference in that aspect. Right now am leaning toward the 8 HP with electric start ( having about worn my you know what out these past couple of weeks trying to pull start the old Johnson Sailmaster 6. Again, thanks for the input.
Mike - thnks for the input. If the consideration were the old model 4 strokes at 130+ lbs., I'm not sure that I would have evn considered it. However, they have a new breed of 4 stroke out that is as low as 84 lbs. for the 8-9.9 HP models. How does the "Admiral" do with the Nissan? My two stroke alternatives all seem to weigh in in the mid-70's. Yes - wood is chewed on old mount and there is a bunch of play. If I were to replace the mount is it easy access and fix? Thanks for the info on the torque - had not really factored in the difference in that aspect. Right now am leaning toward the 8 HP with electric start ( having about worn my you know what out these past couple of weeks trying to pull start the old Johnson Sailmaster 6. Again, thanks for the input.
Two Stroke Preferred
If you can't repair/rebuild your current engine. I suggest a good new/used long shart OMC 6 hp two stroke outboard. Make sure your bracket is "solid"...you may have to replace some of the mounting bolts & etc.
If you can't repair/rebuild your current engine. I suggest a good new/used long shart OMC 6 hp two stroke outboard. Make sure your bracket is "solid"...you may have to replace some of the mounting bolts & etc.
Not hard to replace, but.....
Happy to share. Its not difficult to replace the outboard mount. Rudy at D&R will sell you a direct replacement. Things to watch out for: I recommend replacing the carriage bolts at the same time. Also, I found that the spacer block (that angled hunk of fiberglass between the mounting bracket and the transom) on my Oday 23 needed significant work. Once I had removed the block to replace the mount, I found that it had started to break up inside. The spacer is a wood block coated in fiberglass and gelcoat. The wood in the center of the block on the side closest to the transom was falling apart. I could take big chunks out of it. After finding out that Rudy could make me a new one for a few hundred dollars, I decided to fix the old one. I removed all of the bad wood and cracked fiberglass I could reach. It left me with a bowl-shaped depression in the middle of the block. I filled in all of the remaining cracks with West System epoxy and then coated the inside of the "bowl" with a thick coating of the stuff. It wound up being twice as strong as before. BTW, I'm no epoxy guru; that was the first time I ever used the stuff. It was fun. Once that was done, it took a grand total of fifteen minutes to replace the outboard bracket. I did it while the boat was hauled out, but there is no reason you can't do it while she's in the water. As for your choice of engine, I couldn't agree more: I bought a Nissan 8hp 2 stroke long shaft last year and have been very pleased. It was the smallest long shaft electric start engine I could find from any manufacturer. I bought it through Sailnet. Came with a new tank, fuel line, etc. and delivered right to my front door. The Admiral's problems with this outboard are not related to its weight, but to its status as a mechanical device. I don't know how small you can find a long shaft four stroke with electric start, but an 8 or 9.9 in that configuration is more power than you need on an Oday 23. If you do buy a four that big, be careful using full throttle. Unless you are very mechanically inclined, I wouldn't go with a used or rebuilt engine; you just never know what you are getting. Check the internet for specials/deals. I know I saved at least a few hundred dollars by buying from Sailnet (no tax, no shipping, rock-bottom price)
Happy to share. Its not difficult to replace the outboard mount. Rudy at D&R will sell you a direct replacement. Things to watch out for: I recommend replacing the carriage bolts at the same time. Also, I found that the spacer block (that angled hunk of fiberglass between the mounting bracket and the transom) on my Oday 23 needed significant work. Once I had removed the block to replace the mount, I found that it had started to break up inside. The spacer is a wood block coated in fiberglass and gelcoat. The wood in the center of the block on the side closest to the transom was falling apart. I could take big chunks out of it. After finding out that Rudy could make me a new one for a few hundred dollars, I decided to fix the old one. I removed all of the bad wood and cracked fiberglass I could reach. It left me with a bowl-shaped depression in the middle of the block. I filled in all of the remaining cracks with West System epoxy and then coated the inside of the "bowl" with a thick coating of the stuff. It wound up being twice as strong as before. BTW, I'm no epoxy guru; that was the first time I ever used the stuff. It was fun. Once that was done, it took a grand total of fifteen minutes to replace the outboard bracket. I did it while the boat was hauled out, but there is no reason you can't do it while she's in the water. As for your choice of engine, I couldn't agree more: I bought a Nissan 8hp 2 stroke long shaft last year and have been very pleased. It was the smallest long shaft electric start engine I could find from any manufacturer. I bought it through Sailnet. Came with a new tank, fuel line, etc. and delivered right to my front door. The Admiral's problems with this outboard are not related to its weight, but to its status as a mechanical device. I don't know how small you can find a long shaft four stroke with electric start, but an 8 or 9.9 in that configuration is more power than you need on an Oday 23. If you do buy a four that big, be careful using full throttle. Unless you are very mechanically inclined, I wouldn't go with a used or rebuilt engine; you just never know what you are getting. Check the internet for specials/deals. I know I saved at least a few hundred dollars by buying from Sailnet (no tax, no shipping, rock-bottom price)
How timely...
Your query is very timely. After fiddling around several months, I just completed the installation of a Merc 9.9HP 4 stroke long shaft with electric start on my '78 23 O'Day. It replaced a Johnson 8HP 2 stroke. The Admiral was a little concerned that the Johnson was hard to start (even after servicing) when warm/hot. She also wanted to get the engine up and down easier. After much shopping,research and such, I opted for the new "light weight" 9.9. Here are the details. Engine: Mercury 9.9 4 stroke long shaft w/electric start. 84 lbs. $2050 (plus tax and shipping) 4 month delivery time. When it arrived, there was no dealer prep (Boat US - came in the factory crate from Japan) and the tiller handle was defective. Dealer corrected problem under warranty and prepped it at no charge to me. [Plug for Costal Marine in Deltaville VA.] I could have gone for the 8HP model for $100 less, which is just a detuned 9.9HP engine. Bracket: The existing Fulton bracket could barely support the Merc in a static condition. After considerable research including talking to the Fulton and Garelick factories, I purchased a Garelick 71091 bracket. This model has a 15" lift rather than 9" and the only thing that Garelick could not guarantee was that the Merc's bail (handle) would alway clear the bracket's lift handle. $230 with shipping from C-ME Marine. This baby is one nice piece of work! Installation: Old mounting pad had to go - too small for the new bracket, not in the right place. It was epoxied to the transom... Sand transon, plug old bolt holes, repair gel coat. Marke new mounting pad, marine plywood core, glassed over. Install with new backing board and six (rather than 4) SS bolts. Make sure it is square to boat for asthetics (old bracket wasn't). Install Blue Seas through hull cable clam shell for starter/alternator cable. Cable reaches the aft side of #2 battery (the planned engine battery); would have liked another 10"-12" of cable. Results: Lifting; the engine is neutral, maybe require 5-10 lbs to raise/lower. The 15" lift allows the engine to clear the water when up and vertical, no need to tilt it. (++++ from Admiral). Problems: (1) It takes excessive force to move the engine the last 3mm (no joke) into the bottom position. It just glides down/up to/from that almost down position. - I need to call the factory to get their input. (2)In the all the way up position, the bail and lift handle interfere if the engine is not rotated to the side (no big deal as it clears the water in the vertical position.) Strength: The rest of the boat will come apart before this motor/mount combination fails. Engine/propulsion: The Merc manual says to run the engine at < 1/2 throttle for the first 3 hours. At 1/2 throttle the boat move along at an estimated 4 knots (didn't have the GPS running. There are NO exhaust fumes from the engine (exhausted under water). At 1/2 throttle, you can have a very pleasent conversation in the aft cockpit. The engine is very quiet, but there is a rumbling vibration like a diesel inboard on a larger boat. Fuel: We burned about a pint and 1/2 taking it out of the slip, cruising for 45 minutes, running engine start drills for the Admiral, and putting it back in. Aesthetics: The engine/mount combination look like they mean business on this little O'Day. I will admit that it does not complement the boat's lines, but then no outboard does. Last concern: I have to shift the 100 lbs. of rock ballast under the starboard cockpit (in the lazarette) to the starboard bow locker and maybe increase the weight somewhat to trim the boat. Bottom line: I don't like the look of the engine/mount combination on a sailboat. From an engineering point it looks great. We sail in the lower Chesapeake. The marina where are berthed, requires a 2 mile trek in a narrow channel before we have enough water to start sailing. We can go from being becalmed to being in a squall where we have to reduce sail to a minimum. When becalmed, we often have to motor for several hours before we get a usable breeze. I think this combination fits our needs in terms of utility, noise, comfort, gas economy and usability, but boy, it just doesn't look like the same boat with that bracket hanging out there. Regards,
Your query is very timely. After fiddling around several months, I just completed the installation of a Merc 9.9HP 4 stroke long shaft with electric start on my '78 23 O'Day. It replaced a Johnson 8HP 2 stroke. The Admiral was a little concerned that the Johnson was hard to start (even after servicing) when warm/hot. She also wanted to get the engine up and down easier. After much shopping,research and such, I opted for the new "light weight" 9.9. Here are the details. Engine: Mercury 9.9 4 stroke long shaft w/electric start. 84 lbs. $2050 (plus tax and shipping) 4 month delivery time. When it arrived, there was no dealer prep (Boat US - came in the factory crate from Japan) and the tiller handle was defective. Dealer corrected problem under warranty and prepped it at no charge to me. [Plug for Costal Marine in Deltaville VA.] I could have gone for the 8HP model for $100 less, which is just a detuned 9.9HP engine. Bracket: The existing Fulton bracket could barely support the Merc in a static condition. After considerable research including talking to the Fulton and Garelick factories, I purchased a Garelick 71091 bracket. This model has a 15" lift rather than 9" and the only thing that Garelick could not guarantee was that the Merc's bail (handle) would alway clear the bracket's lift handle. $230 with shipping from C-ME Marine. This baby is one nice piece of work! Installation: Old mounting pad had to go - too small for the new bracket, not in the right place. It was epoxied to the transom... Sand transon, plug old bolt holes, repair gel coat. Marke new mounting pad, marine plywood core, glassed over. Install with new backing board and six (rather than 4) SS bolts. Make sure it is square to boat for asthetics (old bracket wasn't). Install Blue Seas through hull cable clam shell for starter/alternator cable. Cable reaches the aft side of #2 battery (the planned engine battery); would have liked another 10"-12" of cable. Results: Lifting; the engine is neutral, maybe require 5-10 lbs to raise/lower. The 15" lift allows the engine to clear the water when up and vertical, no need to tilt it. (++++ from Admiral). Problems: (1) It takes excessive force to move the engine the last 3mm (no joke) into the bottom position. It just glides down/up to/from that almost down position. - I need to call the factory to get their input. (2)In the all the way up position, the bail and lift handle interfere if the engine is not rotated to the side (no big deal as it clears the water in the vertical position.) Strength: The rest of the boat will come apart before this motor/mount combination fails. Engine/propulsion: The Merc manual says to run the engine at < 1/2 throttle for the first 3 hours. At 1/2 throttle the boat move along at an estimated 4 knots (didn't have the GPS running. There are NO exhaust fumes from the engine (exhausted under water). At 1/2 throttle, you can have a very pleasent conversation in the aft cockpit. The engine is very quiet, but there is a rumbling vibration like a diesel inboard on a larger boat. Fuel: We burned about a pint and 1/2 taking it out of the slip, cruising for 45 minutes, running engine start drills for the Admiral, and putting it back in. Aesthetics: The engine/mount combination look like they mean business on this little O'Day. I will admit that it does not complement the boat's lines, but then no outboard does. Last concern: I have to shift the 100 lbs. of rock ballast under the starboard cockpit (in the lazarette) to the starboard bow locker and maybe increase the weight somewhat to trim the boat. Bottom line: I don't like the look of the engine/mount combination on a sailboat. From an engineering point it looks great. We sail in the lower Chesapeake. The marina where are berthed, requires a 2 mile trek in a narrow channel before we have enough water to start sailing. We can go from being becalmed to being in a squall where we have to reduce sail to a minimum. When becalmed, we often have to motor for several hours before we get a usable breeze. I think this combination fits our needs in terms of utility, noise, comfort, gas economy and usability, but boy, it just doesn't look like the same boat with that bracket hanging out there. Regards,
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