Hello, we are interested in buying an O'Day, 22 ft. We've been told that we should get the 222 model, not the plain 22, because they are faster and handle more easily. I'm trying to find out what the differences really are. Are they lighter? Is there something about how they were made that makes them better races?
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PHRF Ratings
I quick way to get an idea of how a boat performs is to look up it's PHRF rating. The larger the number, the slower the boat. A quick glance at the ratings (they vary regionally) supports what you were told. The 222 rates about 260, and the 22 rates closer to 280. Not to complicate your search, but there are variations among the 22s - Early boats had a masthead rig, later boats had a fractional rig. The PHRF numbers indicate that the later boats with the fractional rig were better performers. I think another big difference you should consider when comparing the two models is the interior layout - The 22 has a very comprehensive bulkhead that breaks up the interior space into two volumes, but provides some privacy for head use. The 222 interior is designed as a single space to be more light and open.
I quick way to get an idea of how a boat performs is to look up it's PHRF rating. The larger the number, the slower the boat. A quick glance at the ratings (they vary regionally) supports what you were told. The 222 rates about 260, and the 22 rates closer to 280. Not to complicate your search, but there are variations among the 22s - Early boats had a masthead rig, later boats had a fractional rig. The PHRF numbers indicate that the later boats with the fractional rig were better performers. I think another big difference you should consider when comparing the two models is the interior layout - The 22 has a very comprehensive bulkhead that breaks up the interior space into two volumes, but provides some privacy for head use. The 222 interior is designed as a single space to be more light and open.
222 vs 22
Another very important feature about the 222 is that it has a keel centerboard, which the 22 doesn't have. This feature makes a big difference in sailing upwind. Oddly enough, I found this out on my own boat years ago when we spent a horrible night anchored out off of Menemsha on Martha's Vineyard, back in the 1990s. I had my family with me that night and it was blowing up a storm and I didn't want to chance going into the narrow passage to Menemsha Pond. In the morning when we got the sail up, along with my anchor, I tried in vain to make headway into the moderate winds that day, only to lose ground on each tack until it dawned on me that I didn't have my centerboard down. I clean forgot about it. As soon as I let it down, I was over to Tarpaulin Cove in no time at all. Sailboats need "Gripe" in order to go to weather, or point up higher. Gripe is a term used by boat builders that refers to a long whetted surface such as a fin keel, ballasted keel, or a centerboard type of keel. For ordinary sailing, you could get along without it, but there can be days when you wish you had it instead of having to start your outboard. Joe
Another very important feature about the 222 is that it has a keel centerboard, which the 22 doesn't have. This feature makes a big difference in sailing upwind. Oddly enough, I found this out on my own boat years ago when we spent a horrible night anchored out off of Menemsha on Martha's Vineyard, back in the 1990s. I had my family with me that night and it was blowing up a storm and I didn't want to chance going into the narrow passage to Menemsha Pond. In the morning when we got the sail up, along with my anchor, I tried in vain to make headway into the moderate winds that day, only to lose ground on each tack until it dawned on me that I didn't have my centerboard down. I clean forgot about it. As soon as I let it down, I was over to Tarpaulin Cove in no time at all. Sailboats need "Gripe" in order to go to weather, or point up higher. Gripe is a term used by boat builders that refers to a long whetted surface such as a fin keel, ballasted keel, or a centerboard type of keel. For ordinary sailing, you could get along without it, but there can be days when you wish you had it instead of having to start your outboard. Joe
Two versions
From the specs, it looks like the keel design changed with the rig. Masthead rig boats (up to 1979) have a shoal draft keel and the 1980-on fractional rig boats have the shoal keel/centerboard setup.
From the specs, it looks like the keel design changed with the rig. Masthead rig boats (up to 1979) have a shoal draft keel and the 1980-on fractional rig boats have the shoal keel/centerboard setup.
Oday 22
I don't believe the 22 has a board or swing keel. Mine had a thick chord long shoal draft solid keel. It had a masthead rig, large fore triangle, narrow beam and was a simple easily sailed small pocket cruiser. She was a very forgiving boat, but not really fast. Sailed well in conditions favorable for her, beam reach with rather strong winds and rather rough conditions she could hold her own, but that was about it.
I don't believe the 22 has a board or swing keel. Mine had a thick chord long shoal draft solid keel. It had a masthead rig, large fore triangle, narrow beam and was a simple easily sailed small pocket cruiser. She was a very forgiving boat, but not really fast. Sailed well in conditions favorable for her, beam reach with rather strong winds and rather rough conditions she could hold her own, but that was about it.
Personal choice
Which is better? O'Day 22 or 222, well...it really depends on what your needs are. The 22 has a more "big-Boat" style cabin, as others have mantioned, she has a head with some privacy (still open to v-berth), a hanging locker (small, but true), and may be much less expensive. The 222 will be newer, might be in better condition, has a more open interior, head is under the aft end of the v-berth. The 22 came with 2 different rigs, 1973-79 models have a masthead rig (190 sqft), the 1980-83 models have the taller, fractional rig (196 sqft). Also 2 different keels, 1973-78 models had the 1'11" draft fixed shoal keel, 1979-83 models had the 1'4" draft K/CB design, draft was 4'3" bd-dn. The 222 had a fractional rig (207 sqft) all years (1984-89) and a K/CB with draft of 1'8" / 4'8". If you plan to trailer your boat, one of the K/CB models will be easier to get on/off a trailer. The 22 had a lighter mast than the 222 and so stepping/unstepping may be easier. Trailering weight will be 2200# for the 222 and the 22 will be approx: 2000-2200# (1973-78 approx: 2000, 1979 approx: 2100#, 1980-83 approx: 2183#). I'd add at least 100-200# to these weights for any gear you will have aboard, and then add the weight of the trailer.
Which is better? O'Day 22 or 222, well...it really depends on what your needs are. The 22 has a more "big-Boat" style cabin, as others have mantioned, she has a head with some privacy (still open to v-berth), a hanging locker (small, but true), and may be much less expensive. The 222 will be newer, might be in better condition, has a more open interior, head is under the aft end of the v-berth. The 22 came with 2 different rigs, 1973-79 models have a masthead rig (190 sqft), the 1980-83 models have the taller, fractional rig (196 sqft). Also 2 different keels, 1973-78 models had the 1'11" draft fixed shoal keel, 1979-83 models had the 1'4" draft K/CB design, draft was 4'3" bd-dn. The 222 had a fractional rig (207 sqft) all years (1984-89) and a K/CB with draft of 1'8" / 4'8". If you plan to trailer your boat, one of the K/CB models will be easier to get on/off a trailer. The 22 had a lighter mast than the 222 and so stepping/unstepping may be easier. Trailering weight will be 2200# for the 222 and the 22 will be approx: 2000-2200# (1973-78 approx: 2000, 1979 approx: 2100#, 1980-83 approx: 2183#). I'd add at least 100-200# to these weights for any gear you will have aboard, and then add the weight of the trailer.
I stand corrected
It seems that I did hear that O'Day built a 22 keel centerboard sloop in certain years of their production, but for the life of me I've never seen one in my area. If these are still available, I would definitely consider buying one, as I have always loved the looks of the O'Day 22 but was turned off by the stub keels on every 22 that I've ever seen. I'd really love to see one up close, just to check it out. The O'Day 22 is a great little sloop, but it all depends on what your needs are in a sailboat. Sailors who just like to cruise the bay and Gunk-hole would love these boats, and sailors who want to race will go for something similar to a J boat. It's all in what your needs are. Joe
It seems that I did hear that O'Day built a 22 keel centerboard sloop in certain years of their production, but for the life of me I've never seen one in my area. If these are still available, I would definitely consider buying one, as I have always loved the looks of the O'Day 22 but was turned off by the stub keels on every 22 that I've ever seen. I'd really love to see one up close, just to check it out. The O'Day 22 is a great little sloop, but it all depends on what your needs are in a sailboat. Sailors who just like to cruise the bay and Gunk-hole would love these boats, and sailors who want to race will go for something similar to a J boat. It's all in what your needs are. Joe
No, different boats, different cockpits
The cockpit stayed mostly unchanged during the 1973-83 production run of the 22, sometime between 1973 and 1977 a gas tank locker was added. When O'Day introduced the 222 in 1984 it was a completely new design. The cockpit is wider and the tops of the seats are contoured. The 222 has a step at the forward end of the cockpit footwell (not quite a bridgedeck, it is about 1/2 the height of the seats) where the CB pendant is controlled. The jibsheet winches on the 222 are located on the cabin top, the 22 had them on the cockpit coamings.
The cockpit stayed mostly unchanged during the 1973-83 production run of the 22, sometime between 1973 and 1977 a gas tank locker was added. When O'Day introduced the 222 in 1984 it was a completely new design. The cockpit is wider and the tops of the seats are contoured. The 222 has a step at the forward end of the cockpit footwell (not quite a bridgedeck, it is about 1/2 the height of the seats) where the CB pendant is controlled. The jibsheet winches on the 222 are located on the cabin top, the 22 had them on the cockpit coamings.
Thanks for all of your help! Does anyone have a 222 for sale, pref. northeast?
Wow, you guys are an amazing a wealth of information. Thanks so much for all of your help, I think we want to buy a 222, if anyone has or knows of one for sale in the northeast, would you please let me know?
Wow, you guys are an amazing a wealth of information. Thanks so much for all of your help, I think we want to buy a 222, if anyone has or knows of one for sale in the northeast, would you please let me know?
Stern Pulpit??
Hi Y'all, Joe, I was looking at the picture that you posted today and noticed the stern pulpit rail on your boat. I know that you come with some really good ideas, and I was wondering if that was something that you added for winter storage of if it is like that all the time. Thanks a group for all of your info, hope that it is getting warmer up there. George
Hi Y'all, Joe, I was looking at the picture that you posted today and noticed the stern pulpit rail on your boat. I know that you come with some really good ideas, and I was wondering if that was something that you added for winter storage of if it is like that all the time. Thanks a group for all of your info, hope that it is getting warmer up there. George
Stern Pulpit
Joe, As I was looking at your picture, that's exactly what I was thinking, what a great place to lean as you are sailing. Great idea! Thanks again. George
Joe, As I was looking at your picture, that's exactly what I was thinking, what a great place to lean as you are sailing. Great idea! Thanks again. George
Stern Pulpit reply
Are you thinking of having one built George? I could give you some measurements, along with some pictures of it. That rail doesn't interfere with the swimming ladder at all. In fact, it gives you something to hold on to when you use the ladder. I usually sit on the Port side and lean my boat cushion up against the rail, to use as a back rest. Rudy Nickerson told me that O'Day build 20 of these boats with a full stern rail, and I remember seeing one of them in the 1987 Boston Boat Show. Also, this stern pulpit came with a short life line with a pelican hook on one end, which I've never used. The only thing that I built was the wood for the mast crotch. I added the roller to it about two years ago. The weather has been rainy, damp, and windy at times up here, and I'm looking for a good day to get started on my hull bottom preparation for the new bottom paint which hasn't arrived in the mail as of yet. Joe
Are you thinking of having one built George? I could give you some measurements, along with some pictures of it. That rail doesn't interfere with the swimming ladder at all. In fact, it gives you something to hold on to when you use the ladder. I usually sit on the Port side and lean my boat cushion up against the rail, to use as a back rest. Rudy Nickerson told me that O'Day build 20 of these boats with a full stern rail, and I remember seeing one of them in the 1987 Boston Boat Show. Also, this stern pulpit came with a short life line with a pelican hook on one end, which I've never used. The only thing that I built was the wood for the mast crotch. I added the roller to it about two years ago. The weather has been rainy, damp, and windy at times up here, and I'm looking for a good day to get started on my hull bottom preparation for the new bottom paint which hasn't arrived in the mail as of yet. Joe
Stern Pulpit
Hi Joe, No, I don't think so at this point. I have a 23 O'Day that already has one that the factory installed on the boat when it was new, and it does meet my needs. I do however think that you have a superior idea there. Thanks anyway for the offer. George
Hi Joe, No, I don't think so at this point. I have a 23 O'Day that already has one that the factory installed on the boat when it was new, and it does meet my needs. I do however think that you have a superior idea there. Thanks anyway for the offer. George
Stern rail
George, I can't really take full credit for the mast crotch set-up. I took my boat down to the welder and told him what I needed and he designed it right on the spot with no plan. I had no idea that it was going to come out that great. He looked at the mast raising set-up that I had made and took some measurements, and that's what he came up with. One of the reasons why I like the O'Day 23, is the full stern rail and combing winches. They should have built the 192 and 222 like that. I'm hoping that the weather here gets just a little warmer so I can start work on my boat. I'm thinking seriously of adding a shelf over my sink in the cabin. Lowe's has these nautical shelves with fiddles on them. All I have to do is cut it somehow to get it to fit in the opening on my bulkhead behind my galley cabinet. If I can't do that, I'll make one out of Mahogany. Smooth Sailing! Joe
George, I can't really take full credit for the mast crotch set-up. I took my boat down to the welder and told him what I needed and he designed it right on the spot with no plan. I had no idea that it was going to come out that great. He looked at the mast raising set-up that I had made and took some measurements, and that's what he came up with. One of the reasons why I like the O'Day 23, is the full stern rail and combing winches. They should have built the 192 and 222 like that. I'm hoping that the weather here gets just a little warmer so I can start work on my boat. I'm thinking seriously of adding a shelf over my sink in the cabin. Lowe's has these nautical shelves with fiddles on them. All I have to do is cut it somehow to get it to fit in the opening on my bulkhead behind my galley cabinet. If I can't do that, I'll make one out of Mahogany. Smooth Sailing! Joe
Rigready
Rigready, If you are interested in a 1986 222, located in Annapolis MD you can email me at cthenneyjr@hotmail.com Thanks Chuck
Rigready, If you are interested in a 1986 222, located in Annapolis MD you can email me at cthenneyjr@hotmail.com Thanks Chuck
I may contact you
Thanks Chuck, we saw something this weekend closer to home,if that doesn't come through I will definitely contact you.
Thanks Chuck, we saw something this weekend closer to home,if that doesn't come through I will definitely contact you.
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