I have an h460 with furling mainsail, and plan a trip from Chesapeake Bay to Bermuda and south to the Virgins. While I have a lot of electonics, etc., I plan on using seamanship to make the trip instead of engine etc. Thus, I would like some advice on several items: Do I need a trisail or can using the furled main do the same thing when really furled in tight? When under bare poles, would you stream the sea anchor from the bow or the stern? In my boat, when anchored, the bow swings wildly from side to side, so I assume that streaming it from the bow will be unsatisfactory due to the large amount of forward windage on the h450 and h460's. When heaving to, can the current main and furled jib do the job or do I really need to get a storm staysail and rig for the boat? Has anyone got any specific advise on hoving to on the h460? I plan to begin my trip in April.
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Why leaving in April?
Pardon me for jumping in but heading for the Caribbean in April seems backwards - hurricane season begins June 1 - most folks are returning to the States (or heading way south) about then.
Pardon me for jumping in but heading for the Caribbean in April seems backwards - hurricane season begins June 1 - most folks are returning to the States (or heading way south) about then.
Expand your library
In a very big effort here in not trying to be offensive, it sounds like, from your questions, that you may perhaps not have as much blue water experience as maybe some other folks do, so let me make a suggestion. Go to your local bookstore and purchase yourself a copy of the very, very fine basic sailing text entitled, "Royce's Sailing Illustrated," from Running Press in Philadelphia, PA, ISBN #0-89471-696-4 and give it a thorough reading. It contains all the answers to the questions you asked, complete with illustrations on how to rig some of the components about which you asked. It's also chock-full of very useful sailing info and, actually, it was the first sailing text I ever used back in the yacht club sailing program days of 1967-68 when I learned how to sail. I still use it today and have several copies and often give copies to friends when they ask me to teach them to sail. It's not expensive; only about $12 and you will find it very useful. Buy 2 copies and keep one on board. Secondly, that crossing over to Bermuda can be pretty tricky, so talk to some people who have actually made it. I haven't, so I can't help you much other than to say I've read alot about it and it takes pretty good seamanship. You are your own best judge of your sailing abilities so please be pragmatic and objective. You've got a good boat that is certainly capable of making the trip so the biggest question is whether your skills are up to snuff. Jeff is right about hurricane season, but let me toss in that most storms are late summer storms -- altho anything is possible. Watch the weather in Africa; if it's raining lots in Africa when you are talking about starting your trip, be particularly attentive to weather reports. Lots of rain coming off the West Africa cost can churn up into some pretty nasty storms. If you don't have weatherfax, get it and pay attention to it. If you don't have it, or can't afford it, stay in port because the Atlantic is a nasty place to be in a big blow. On the flip side, there are a lot of safe harbors during a storm in the Virgins and I have been down there during Hurricane Season and dodged a few bullets. On the other hand, if a Big One is coming your way, head to Venezuala -- go south as fast as you can or tie up your boat, make sure the insurance is paid and fly out of there. Hope I didn't insult you. Good luck.
In a very big effort here in not trying to be offensive, it sounds like, from your questions, that you may perhaps not have as much blue water experience as maybe some other folks do, so let me make a suggestion. Go to your local bookstore and purchase yourself a copy of the very, very fine basic sailing text entitled, "Royce's Sailing Illustrated," from Running Press in Philadelphia, PA, ISBN #0-89471-696-4 and give it a thorough reading. It contains all the answers to the questions you asked, complete with illustrations on how to rig some of the components about which you asked. It's also chock-full of very useful sailing info and, actually, it was the first sailing text I ever used back in the yacht club sailing program days of 1967-68 when I learned how to sail. I still use it today and have several copies and often give copies to friends when they ask me to teach them to sail. It's not expensive; only about $12 and you will find it very useful. Buy 2 copies and keep one on board. Secondly, that crossing over to Bermuda can be pretty tricky, so talk to some people who have actually made it. I haven't, so I can't help you much other than to say I've read alot about it and it takes pretty good seamanship. You are your own best judge of your sailing abilities so please be pragmatic and objective. You've got a good boat that is certainly capable of making the trip so the biggest question is whether your skills are up to snuff. Jeff is right about hurricane season, but let me toss in that most storms are late summer storms -- altho anything is possible. Watch the weather in Africa; if it's raining lots in Africa when you are talking about starting your trip, be particularly attentive to weather reports. Lots of rain coming off the West Africa cost can churn up into some pretty nasty storms. If you don't have weatherfax, get it and pay attention to it. If you don't have it, or can't afford it, stay in port because the Atlantic is a nasty place to be in a big blow. On the flip side, there are a lot of safe harbors during a storm in the Virgins and I have been down there during Hurricane Season and dodged a few bullets. On the other hand, if a Big One is coming your way, head to Venezuala -- go south as fast as you can or tie up your boat, make sure the insurance is paid and fly out of there. Hope I didn't insult you. Good luck.
run means run
Deploying a sea anchor and running under bare poles are two different things. If you're going to run, run, and keep the helm tended. The sea anchor only goes out when you've given up on sailing and decided to drift. (In which case it goes out through the anchor rollers on the bow, because otherwise it's going to chaffe through within the first few minutes or else be impossible to retrieve without the help of a windlass. You may be confusing the sea anchor with a drogue, which is deployed astern.) Like a growing number of offshore sailors, I don't carry a sea anchor because of how unreliable/prone to failure/uncomfortable they are. I'd much rather heave to any day. Heaving to is difficult to do on fin or bulb keeled boats. It took a good bit of practice to get it right on my 410. Back to running with bare poles: if you feel you're going too fast to maintain control under bare poles, the best way to slow the boat down and still maintain controll is to tow warps.
Deploying a sea anchor and running under bare poles are two different things. If you're going to run, run, and keep the helm tended. The sea anchor only goes out when you've given up on sailing and decided to drift. (In which case it goes out through the anchor rollers on the bow, because otherwise it's going to chaffe through within the first few minutes or else be impossible to retrieve without the help of a windlass. You may be confusing the sea anchor with a drogue, which is deployed astern.) Like a growing number of offshore sailors, I don't carry a sea anchor because of how unreliable/prone to failure/uncomfortable they are. I'd much rather heave to any day. Heaving to is difficult to do on fin or bulb keeled boats. It took a good bit of practice to get it right on my 410. Back to running with bare poles: if you feel you're going too fast to maintain control under bare poles, the best way to slow the boat down and still maintain controll is to tow warps.
can't remember the name...
of the authors, but there is a "classic" book on the topic, named, if I remember correctly, Heavy Weather Sailing. It chronicals the journeys of a sailing couple and analyzes, in retrospect, their actions in heavy weather conditions. It is an oldie, published maybe in the late 60's or early 70's, but hey, for basic seamanship, how much has changed? Unfortunately, my copy is at the boat, and i am not. Perhaps some of our other readers can remember the specifics of author and isbn?
of the authors, but there is a "classic" book on the topic, named, if I remember correctly, Heavy Weather Sailing. It chronicals the journeys of a sailing couple and analyzes, in retrospect, their actions in heavy weather conditions. It is an oldie, published maybe in the late 60's or early 70's, but hey, for basic seamanship, how much has changed? Unfortunately, my copy is at the boat, and i am not. Perhaps some of our other readers can remember the specifics of author and isbn?
Couple of Points
(1) Talk to your bluewater insurance company first; they may require 2 or even 3 off-shore experienced sailors on board for the trip as well as some type of boat preparation
(1) Talk to your bluewater insurance company first; they may require 2 or even 3 off-shore experienced sailors on board for the trip as well as some type of boat preparation
"BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!"
Jarvis: LOTS of good advice given so far...I highly recommend you heed them. Henk's suggestion of a professional captain/crew if you insist on going offshore the whole way down is right on. If that is just not in your plan (or budget), maybe you could either take the ICW most of the way to FL (OK, you miss Bermuda) or, better yet, get some offshore experience locally this summer (Delmarva circumnavigation for example) and join the Caribbean 1500 group next fall. Just remember that if you leave next spring, you may miss hurricane season during the transit, but will be in the Caribbean right in the middle of it. Good luck and Smooth Sailing! Wish I could join you! Tim Leighton
Jarvis: LOTS of good advice given so far...I highly recommend you heed them. Henk's suggestion of a professional captain/crew if you insist on going offshore the whole way down is right on. If that is just not in your plan (or budget), maybe you could either take the ICW most of the way to FL (OK, you miss Bermuda) or, better yet, get some offshore experience locally this summer (Delmarva circumnavigation for example) and join the Caribbean 1500 group next fall. Just remember that if you leave next spring, you may miss hurricane season during the transit, but will be in the Caribbean right in the middle of it. Good luck and Smooth Sailing! Wish I could join you! Tim Leighton
Adlard Coles Heavy Weather Sailing
Jarvis, As Greg suggested, pick up a copy of Adlard Coles Heavy Weather Sailing. It has been rewritten and updated since Adlard Coles death. It walks you through in detail the alternative heavy weather strategies with advice from experts and then spends a couple of hundred pages with actual stories of boats who have weathered serious storms, what worked and what didn't. It will be a real good investment of 40 bucks. Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
Jarvis, As Greg suggested, pick up a copy of Adlard Coles Heavy Weather Sailing. It has been rewritten and updated since Adlard Coles death. It walks you through in detail the alternative heavy weather strategies with advice from experts and then spends a couple of hundred pages with actual stories of boats who have weathered serious storms, what worked and what didn't. It will be a real good investment of 40 bucks. Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
About books
First of all, I agree with anyone who wants you to read one of the classical books. In this business, you can never read too much. On the other hand, if you are not a particularly voracious reader you will need to pick your books (or even videos these days) with great care. In that case, I would not start with books that were written well before the advent of modern light and medium light finkeeled cruisers because the (mostly passive) heavy weather tactics for the old fullkeelers differ significantly from the (mostly active) tactics which better suit the larger finkeelers, especially if they happen to have good upwind capability. Adlard Coles book IS a classic and everyone should read it. However, many of the techniques he describes are a heck of a lot easier to use with typical heavy fullkeelers than with your Hunter 460. For a thorough AND up-to-date discussion of offshore techniques for your type of vessel you should put some of Steve and Linda Dashew's books and video's on your Xmas list. Alas, they may be a bit on the pricey side. Also, I found the Dashew's recent description of heaving-to techniques in Cruising World less than lucid. However, this may simply have been the result of the editor's attempt to condense some of the material into a single 4 or 5-page article. Their website is: http://www.setsail.com/products/products.html (no, I am not getting any commission
) Also, any books and articles by John Rousmaniere and/or Gary Jobson are likely to be highly relevant to your own vessel's behavior. Have fun! Flying Dutchman
First of all, I agree with anyone who wants you to read one of the classical books. In this business, you can never read too much. On the other hand, if you are not a particularly voracious reader you will need to pick your books (or even videos these days) with great care. In that case, I would not start with books that were written well before the advent of modern light and medium light finkeeled cruisers because the (mostly passive) heavy weather tactics for the old fullkeelers differ significantly from the (mostly active) tactics which better suit the larger finkeelers, especially if they happen to have good upwind capability. Adlard Coles book IS a classic and everyone should read it. However, many of the techniques he describes are a heck of a lot easier to use with typical heavy fullkeelers than with your Hunter 460. For a thorough AND up-to-date discussion of offshore techniques for your type of vessel you should put some of Steve and Linda Dashew's books and video's on your Xmas list. Alas, they may be a bit on the pricey side. Also, I found the Dashew's recent description of heaving-to techniques in Cruising World less than lucid. However, this may simply have been the result of the editor's attempt to condense some of the material into a single 4 or 5-page article. Their website is: http://www.setsail.com/products/products.html (no, I am not getting any commission
) Also, any books and articles by John Rousmaniere and/or Gary Jobson are likely to be highly relevant to your own vessel's behavior. Have fun! Flying DutchmanOcean Heavy weather sailing, thanks for advice
I appreciate what all of you have said and I have copied them to a file. I should let you know that while I am not an expert, I am also not a novice. Since I still want your input, and I believe that these forums are only open for 72 hours, I will start a new forum with this basic title, and will include some more information about me and my goal. Thanks Jarvis
I appreciate what all of you have said and I have copied them to a file. I should let you know that while I am not an expert, I am also not a novice. Since I still want your input, and I believe that these forums are only open for 72 hours, I will start a new forum with this basic title, and will include some more information about me and my goal. Thanks Jarvis
Forums
The forums live on a lot longer than 72 hours -- it's just a little harder to find them. You can still search on the title of the original and add replies as long as you want to.
The forums live on a lot longer than 72 hours -- it's just a little harder to find them. You can still search on the title of the original and add replies as long as you want to.
Forum post life
Posts stay in the active forums at least two weeks (in busy forums) and up to 90 days (in slow forums). to find posts more than 72 hours old you need to go to the forum menu (i.e., the Ask All Sailors forum menu as opposed to the recent Forum Activity screen) and scan down the lists of posts. Or, use the 'search' function. After 14-90 days the post is archived which means is it read-only.
Posts stay in the active forums at least two weeks (in busy forums) and up to 90 days (in slow forums). to find posts more than 72 hours old you need to go to the forum menu (i.e., the Ask All Sailors forum menu as opposed to the recent Forum Activity screen) and scan down the lists of posts. Or, use the 'search' function. After 14-90 days the post is archived which means is it read-only.
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