Hello all, I'm new here, it's my first post... Here goes... I had a survey done yesterday on my 1978 C30 (my first boat ever) and I was told the keel bolts are fine but I was recommended to replace the nuts and washers for good measure since there is some corrosion and they are pretty old (who knows how old but they don't look like the originals). Question: Is it a good or bad idea to use nylock nuts as the keel bolt nuts? I bought 316 SS nylock nuts and regular washers that match the sizes of the replacement kit on Catalina Direct but on second thought I was wondering if water from the bilge gets trapped between the nylon and the nut it could cause the new nut to corrode prematurely. Yes or no? I haven't installed them yet, still learning that procedure, but I want the right nut and I haven't heard of anyone using nylock nuts on their keel bolts. It seems like there isn't much space for water to be trapped in there but I want to do the right thing. You all know more than I do and I appreciate your comments and any advice you have to offer. Cheers!
Nylock keel nuts, good or bad idea?
- Thread starter AndrewG
- Start date
On a ‘78 I presume she has steel, not s/s keel bolts?
Has she had the wood in the keel bus removed or it still in there?
Any noticeable Catalina smile?
Has she had the wood in the keel bus removed or it still in there?
Any noticeable Catalina smile?
Your original washers may be thicker than standard hardware types. You can probably reuse the originals. Locknuts of any type are not necessary in this application as loosening by relative rotation or vibration is unlikely. I had an old (1974?) C27 that had steel, not stainless, keel bolts and nuts with profound corrosion. I left them as they were and added sister bolts using a Catalina supplied procedure. Dreadful job.
Welcome aboard, Andrew!
I agree with Roy.. The locknuts aren't necessary and won't add anything to the system. On the same token, they won't harm anything either.. Corrosion because of the insert is not an issue.. Nylon can swell around 10% in size as it absorbs water, so it will not leave ant gaps after it sees humidity for a few days.
I agree with Roy.. The locknuts aren't necessary and won't add anything to the system. On the same token, they won't harm anything either.. Corrosion because of the insert is not an issue.. Nylon can swell around 10% in size as it absorbs water, so it will not leave ant gaps after it sees humidity for a few days.
Thanks for the replies...
Ken, I called Catalina and they said they are SS but they are 304 SS not 316. I then asked if it is okay to mix the two different metals (304 bolts with 316 nuts and washers) and they seemed to think it would be fine. I do not know if the wood has been taken out but when I knocked on it a week or so ago it seemed as hard as a rock but again, I don't know and your question makes me want to check again. There is a small Catalina smile when I got it hauled out but I simply don't have the funds to have that addressed at the moment hence replacing and tightening the keel bolts while it is currently hauled out. The guy at the shipyard said the smile wasn't large enough to be considered crucial but still doesn't sit well with me so I want to address it as soon as I can even though it will cost me the fee of another haul out. B.O.A.T.!!!
Roy, can you elaborate a little on your "dreadful job" comment haha. I'm just not sure if you mean that adding sister bolts meant you added new/more lag bolts drilled into the keel or if you added a second set of nuts on top of the old nuts. Please let me know.
K.Loudie, thanks for letting me know about the swelling, I see that as a good thing because if the nylon swells hopefully it won't allow water down between the nut and the bolt threads. Who knows!!!?
At any rate, thanks guy for your input, I'm learning a lot and I appreciate everything I can learn from you. One thing I've noticed as a new sailor and new boater is that the whole community is very helpful to each other. It's amazing and gives me a little hope for humanity in these weird times that we now live in...!
Any further input or comments are very welcome. Thanks!
Ken, I called Catalina and they said they are SS but they are 304 SS not 316. I then asked if it is okay to mix the two different metals (304 bolts with 316 nuts and washers) and they seemed to think it would be fine. I do not know if the wood has been taken out but when I knocked on it a week or so ago it seemed as hard as a rock but again, I don't know and your question makes me want to check again. There is a small Catalina smile when I got it hauled out but I simply don't have the funds to have that addressed at the moment hence replacing and tightening the keel bolts while it is currently hauled out. The guy at the shipyard said the smile wasn't large enough to be considered crucial but still doesn't sit well with me so I want to address it as soon as I can even though it will cost me the fee of another haul out. B.O.A.T.!!!
Roy, can you elaborate a little on your "dreadful job" comment haha. I'm just not sure if you mean that adding sister bolts meant you added new/more lag bolts drilled into the keel or if you added a second set of nuts on top of the old nuts. Please let me know.
K.Loudie, thanks for letting me know about the swelling, I see that as a good thing because if the nylon swells hopefully it won't allow water down between the nut and the bolt threads. Who knows!!!?
At any rate, thanks guy for your input, I'm learning a lot and I appreciate everything I can learn from you. One thing I've noticed as a new sailor and new boater is that the whole community is very helpful to each other. It's amazing and gives me a little hope for humanity in these weird times that we now live in...!
Any further input or comments are very welcome. Thanks!
Regarding sister bolts: My original nuts looked like rounded mounds or corroded metal. The nuts had no points. The sister procedure from Catalina called for drilling horizontal holes about 2"D? through the keel about 8"? below the keel to hull joint. Then drill 3/4"? holes vertically down through the bilge to intersect with the horizontal holes in the keel. You had to fabricate 1-1/4"D? SS rod stock to have a transverse threaded hole through the side. After this you insert stainless threaded rod into the vertical hole, screw it into the rod stock and put a nut and washer on top in the bilge. Lastly you fill the horizontal holes with fiberglass. Dimensions above are guesses from memory. Dreadful, no?
Roy, yes that sounds mad dreadful! I hope I never have to do that but hey, at least there's a solution if that is ever the case.
Thanks Ron, I already have the nylock nuts so I'm going to use them since they have the same tensile strength as the regular nuts. As Roy said they won't loosen due to vibration so I think I'll be fine but thanks for the input. If there is a reason you think they are a bad idea please let me know.
Cheers!
Thanks Ron, I already have the nylock nuts so I'm going to use them since they have the same tensile strength as the regular nuts. As Roy said they won't loosen due to vibration so I think I'll be fine but thanks for the input. If there is a reason you think they are a bad idea please let me know.
Cheers!
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,359
Welcome Andrew. Glad you are finding the sense that we are in this together, new and old boat owners.
Sounds like you are on a right path. Be sure you get the torque correct. Your boat manual should have the correct torque for the keel nuts.
Trust you are doing this on the hard not in the water. Have the boat set on the ground resting on the keel. Then do the bolts one at a time. I would alternate the bolts - remove and replace the nuts. Then go back and check the torque of each of them.
Pictures of your new boat and of the work you do is always encouraged here.
Sounds like you are on a right path. Be sure you get the torque correct. Your boat manual should have the correct torque for the keel nuts.
Trust you are doing this on the hard not in the water. Have the boat set on the ground resting on the keel. Then do the bolts one at a time. I would alternate the bolts - remove and replace the nuts. Then go back and check the torque of each of them.
Pictures of your new boat and of the work you do is always encouraged here.
The enemy if stainless is crevice corrosion where anaerobic water gets trapped. So use a dielectric on the bolts to fill the gap in the thread.
The bane of the wood in the keel is water traveling down the thread and attacking the plank embedded in the keel bus. So do whatever you can to prevent that, like seating the washers in 4200, or butyl tape, or on top of a heavy o ring if you don’t get water above the nut top.
The bane of the wood in the keel is water traveling down the thread and attacking the plank embedded in the keel bus. So do whatever you can to prevent that, like seating the washers in 4200, or butyl tape, or on top of a heavy o ring if you don’t get water above the nut top.
JSSailem, here is a photo of her getting hauled out last week. For some reason my heart was jumping out of my chest while she was getting lifted. I guess the fear of finding something wrong with her was overwhelming my emotions (she's the first boat I've ever owned). She's alright though, just needs some lovin'.
I'm headed to the shipyard tomorrow to put in a full day of work (missing work to do work haha). I'll be polishing the prop, swapping the keel bolts while she's on the hard (thanks for the tip on alternating then rechecking the torque spec), doing some rudder repair (filling a void that we found with foam) and additional sanding before they paint because they said they did all the sanding they could do for what I paid for. I felt she needed a little more sanding before the paint goes on. I want to take off some bumpy sections of old bottom paint near the waterline. My wife can't believe how much time I am putting into her when I should be welding to pay the bills. There's always time for that... I'll post more photos of the work soon. Cheers!!
I'm headed to the shipyard tomorrow to put in a full day of work (missing work to do work haha). I'll be polishing the prop, swapping the keel bolts while she's on the hard (thanks for the tip on alternating then rechecking the torque spec), doing some rudder repair (filling a void that we found with foam) and additional sanding before they paint because they said they did all the sanding they could do for what I paid for. I felt she needed a little more sanding before the paint goes on. I want to take off some bumpy sections of old bottom paint near the waterline. My wife can't believe how much time I am putting into her when I should be welding to pay the bills. There's always time for that... I'll post more photos of the work soon. Cheers!!
Drew,
Are you saying she's not there sanding w/ you and bonding with / giving the new addition her some loving?
C'mon now, tell us it isn't true.
Are you saying she's not there sanding w/ you and bonding with / giving the new addition her some loving?
C'mon now, tell us it isn't true.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,359
Your wife will soon learn that you have a mistress. It can be tough but you will have to learn. The French are masters at keeping the Mistress and the wife happy. Maybe that’s why they are considered great sailors.
Even in the slings she looks good. One trick I have heard, when you add bling to the boat bring a little something home for the misses. Not sure if it works, but I do buy flowers often.
Good luck mate.
Andrew, welcome to the forum and to C30 ownership.
On my previous boat there was a thick bumpy layer of bottom paint at the waterline. I carefully went at it with a putty knife and found it scrapped off pretty easy. Easier than sanding.
Andrew, you'll soon learn that not only is scraping easier than sanding, it is most often safer to boat and body. And most importantly, make sure you know the yard rules for DIY if you do decide to do any sanding. Every yard I've used requires a scavenging system for sanding work.... especially bottom paint. A shop vac with a long hose attached to your sander will satisfy most yards.... but make sure you know... if the residue gets on neighboring boats it could be an expensive days work.
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Tell your wife that she should be happy; that with all the time you are putting into the boat, you haven't had time to see your girlfriend recently.
ok, maybe don't tell her that....
I’d tend to use the reverse- leaves more time for her to see her boyfriend. Just a recommendation.
HAHAHA you guys are cracking me up! All good advice though. I'll definitely start bringing the wife something when I add bling to the boat. That's a good one!
Here she is with the paint done. I fixed her small Catalina smile, it came out fairly good but could have been faired a little better. The rudder void got filled, new cutlass bearing, new zincs and at the last minute they helped me get some mega rusty bolts off of the old exhaust mixing elbow and replaced it with a new elbow, bolts and gasket.
There is likely more I could do and should have done while she was hauled out but the money well is/was running low and I had to call it quits at some point. I just bought not all but most running rigging to replace. Next up is a standing rigging survey then I'll replace what is needed. For now I'm back to filling the money well... Last photo is of me on my first time out taking her from Dana Point, CA to Shoreline Marina in Long Beach, CA. It was a 32 mile motor up wind against the current. I didn't attempt to sail because I need more experience. No, that's not a beer or a cocktail, it's a soda!
Here she is with the paint done. I fixed her small Catalina smile, it came out fairly good but could have been faired a little better. The rudder void got filled, new cutlass bearing, new zincs and at the last minute they helped me get some mega rusty bolts off of the old exhaust mixing elbow and replaced it with a new elbow, bolts and gasket.
There is likely more I could do and should have done while she was hauled out but the money well is/was running low and I had to call it quits at some point. I just bought not all but most running rigging to replace. Next up is a standing rigging survey then I'll replace what is needed. For now I'm back to filling the money well... Last photo is of me on my first time out taking her from Dana Point, CA to Shoreline Marina in Long Beach, CA. It was a 32 mile motor up wind against the current. I didn't attempt to sail because I need more experience. No, that's not a beer or a cocktail, it's a soda!
Drew
She’s purdy. You’ll enjoy her a lot. I recall like it was yesterday my first trip 27 yrs ago (bringing her from Youngstown NY through the Welland Canal (Ontario) to Buffalo.)
I’m interested in her reg number. Does Cali do it by county or something? Y’all over on the left do know that cali is cA right?
Or does it stand for cali Forn ni a?
don’t hesitate to join the Catalina Association when the money pit allows. It’s cheap!
She’s purdy. You’ll enjoy her a lot. I recall like it was yesterday my first trip 27 yrs ago (bringing her from Youngstown NY through the Welland Canal (Ontario) to Buffalo.)
I’m interested in her reg number. Does Cali do it by county or something? Y’all over on the left do know that cali is cA right?
Or does it stand for cali Forn ni a?
don’t hesitate to join the Catalina Association when the money pit allows. It’s cheap!