Now this is weird - Hope?

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Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
I just poured the first oil I pumped out of the sump into a clear container into the gallon jug with the rest of the oil. Eyeballing the two, I had expected to come up with more than a gallon but the total amount came to almost exactly what I normally get when I do an oil change, a gallon less what stays in the filter and sticks to the engine parts.

Where did the oil go?

New theory:

I've got some sludge or something in the bottom of my sump. We know that my engine tends to pump oil up the dipstick tube, thus the "O" ring and my scare in the Chesapeake. I ran hard the day before discovering the high oil level because of thunderstorms on the radar. Perhaps the oil level was raised in the rather narrow dipstick tube (a tube with a bend that goes all the way to the bottom of the sump) and the sludge or whatever got pushed in hard enough to keep the level high.

This theory would be consistent with the lack of any fuel smell although the new low sulfur stuff is so clean I think the lube oil could mask it.

This theory doesn't explain the easy initial pumping or apparent low viscosity of the oil. The latter is subjective however. Sludge actually might explain the easy pumping. Perhaps I've always been trying to suck out oil through some sort of debris that partially blocks the thin suction tube I use and that has gotten dislodged.

I've put the fuel system back together with the mechanical lift pump disconnected and just serving as a cover plate. (I'll make one in due course) I've pressurized the fuel system to 6 psi and will look at the gauge in a few hours. I haven't put any oil back in and will also do another dipstick pump to see if anything shows up.

I'm hoping mightily for the embarrassment of this being another of my famous false alarms. I checked the dipstick about four times as it's hard to read so I'm pretty confident about the high reading though.

Wait wait.... Theory Number Two:

I haven't been able to run at WOT because the replacement prop that was put on in the Chesapeake was over pitched. I had the pitch reduced while the boat was out of the water. In addition to running hard because of the weather, I also did some full power running to check the prop and exercise the engine. There was probably more than the usual amount of condensation in the crankcasel because of the short runs in the days before the haul out. Perhaps some of that condensation emulsion got into the crankcase breather hose leaving the crankcase slightly pressurized on shutdown. That could easily have raised the oil level in the dipstick tube the 3/4" I saw.

I'm going to put the oil back in the engine, check the oil levels very carefully, and do a good long hard run before worrying about this any more. If the oil level does rise, I'll pull the crankcase breather line off to be sure the case is depressurized and then measure again.

Who said powerboating was boring?
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,086
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Roger,
Magellan, Columbus, Blackbeard, Blye, none of them had engines. Many a port you can sail in and out of without power. So before you chuck it all why not go for a sail?
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,093
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Excellent!.. keeping fingers crossed for ya, Roger.. Not having to mess with an injection pump is a good thing.. I think that it was one more vote by Mr Yanmar for re-connecting breather as designed.;~). Viscosity of the oil that you pumped out OK?
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
Yes!

I don't think I have ever enjoyed the embarrassment of being wrong more.

We went down to the boat and the fuel pressure gauge read exactly what it had a couple hours before, not a fraction of a needle width change.

I filled the engine with oil and we took off for a brisk tour of the bay, 16 miles at about 100 rpm above normal cruise with a few periods at WOT thrown in. I went down and checked the bowl of the PCV liquid trap about every mile for the first five or so and occasionally after that.

The trap almost immediately appeared filled with grey froth but a light behind it showed it to be just a thin coating of condensation. Once the engine and oil got up to full operating temperature, it cleared up dry with just a few spots. At the end of the 16 miles, it still looked clean and dry.

I checked the oil level after shutdown and it had not changed by the width of the top mark on the dipstick.

So, why the froth in the trap before and the resultant breather restriction (I'm going with theory two above)? Well, when we passed the place where I anchored those few nights after the oil change, the liquid trap was still cloudy as the engine hadn't developed enough heat to dry out the oil. Three miles with this raw water cooled engine is not enough. A fresh water cooled engine might come up to temperature sooner but this is still something to think about if you are one of those people who runs your diesel for 10 - 15 minutes just to get on and off a mooring or in and out of a marina.

The liquid trap is a great feature as it gives you a window into the crankcase conditions. Those few days of motoring back and forth from my anchorage to the town dock had built up a lot of condensation in the crankcase. The engine never got hot enough to bake it out. When all this water was pushed out at once, it formed enough emulsion to create the mousse that blocked the breather line enough to slightly pressurize the crankcase. No real harm in that except for the particular dip stick housing design of this engine. That slight pressure rise pushed the oil high enough in the external dipstick tube to create a false dipstick reading and thus entertain you all with my panic.

For those of you who haven't followed this breather issue, the water trap is a crankcase breather separator with the filter element removed. In that configuration, it simply forms a low spot with a drain and lets you see what's in the bowl. It doesn't add any significant back pressure and won't clog anymore than the straight hose will. I would have had exactly the same issue without it but wouldn't have been able to see what was going on and figure it out.

Take home lesson: Don't believe high dipstick readings on engines with an external dip stick tube that runs down to the bottom of the sump. Drain all the oil and measure the volume before pushing the panic button and posting that your boat is dead, your life is over, the sky is falling, etc.

Take home lesson number two: Run your diesel as long as you can when you start it on daysails. Less than a few miles is building up a lot of water in the crankcase. Try for at least a long run at the end of the day to dry it out.
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,093
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Good to hear, Roger.. Time for a sip of rum and a good cigar ! Susan and I are going to go out a couple of miles offshore and drift tonight and watch the Perseid meteor shower !
 
Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Ahah!

The 'proper' way to check the oil level is to remove the dipstick, wipe it clean, put it back in fully, pull it out again and note the oil level against the markings on the dipstick.
Just hauling it out and taking fright is no way to do this job.

I speak from experience. I have a Yanmar 3JH2E. Generally when I take the dipstick out there is no sign of any oil at all! It is as clean and dry as a whistle. On many previous occasions I panicked. So now I just put it back, making sure it goes fully in. Then I remove it again and the oil level is invariably perfect.

The reason is that the dipstick has an 'O' ring seal at the top so it cannot breathe crankcase vapours into the engine bay. Somehow, when the engine warms up, the crankshaft swirling the sump oil is capable of putting enough air into this tube so all the oil is displaced. Thus a clean dipstick.

Yours Roger seems capable of doing exactly the opposite.

No problems - except an uncomfortable feeling.
 

jrowan

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Mar 5, 2011
1,294
O'Day 35 Severn River, Mobjack Bay, Va.
Roger, you need to relax mate. Take your boat out & go sailing & stop worring so much. How old is your engine anyway? Mine is 30 years old, & runs great for its age but will never perform like a new diesel & neither will yours. If it starts up, runs & gets the job done, then don't sweat it. As long as she doesn't run dry on oil, has clean fuel & proper water flow for cooling a diesel will run forever. Worry never makes anything safer or more reliable, just less enjoyable.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
Just hauling it out and taking fright is no way to do this job.
I learned that quite a while ago. I never take less than 3 - 4 readings cleaning the stick each time. I also run it around the tube a bit on the first one that I don't pay any attention to clean off any oil that is sticking to the sides. I then make sure the back of the stick is sliding down the edge of the tube. I don't consider it a reading until I get two that match and the stick looks like it was dipped in oil instead of smeared. It's a science with these engines.

I can't help thinking that, with all I learned about the dipstick and breather interaction on this engine, if this had been someone else's engine or post, I would have figured out immediately what was going on. Maybe that's why doctors have an ethic of not practicing on their own families.
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
You know Roger, it sounds like you crankcase vent is not doing its job of venting the crankcase to atmospheric pressure. Perhaps you could just modify your oil level checking procedure by removing the valve cover oil fill then checking the oil level. That way you could be sure the crankcase is at atmospheric pressure and the oil level in the dipstick tube is not artificially high.
FWIW
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
You know Roger, it sounds like you crankcase vent is not doing its job of venting the crankcase to atmospheric pressure. Perhaps you could just modify your oil level checking procedure by removing the valve cover oil fill then checking the oil level. That way you could be sure the crankcase is at atmospheric pressure and the oil level in the dipstick tube is not artificially high.
FWIW
this makes me wonder why they dont put a PCV valve in the valve cover.....or is that vent that they have put in there supposed to serve that purpose

regards

woody
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
You know Roger, it sounds like you crankcase vent is not doing its job of venting the crankcase to atmospheric pressure.
It clearly wasn't when I read the dipstick but it's actually, it is working great most of the time. The water trap bowl serves as sight glass to let me see what is going through it. All the way from MD to Portland I didn't have to drain it once.

The design on these engines is less than optimum though. The vent is very low on the case side so oil sometimes washes up into it if the boat is pitching and rolling heavily. The dipstick design makes the engine sensitive to pressure changes.

The large charge of emulsion the engine produced is an anomaly in the past couple hundred hours of operation. The best explanation I can think of is given above.

Opening the oil fill before checking the oil level is an excellent idea.
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,086
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Just a thought Roger, you were operating for a long while in the relatively warm waters in the south. In your home waters the water is extremely colder so with a raw water cooled engine the condensation might be a lot greater. Your engine may just be acting differently as a result of changing environmental conditions?
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
i havent seen any one ask ....what weight motor oil are you useing....not implying you dont know what you are doing but could it be that you have to heavy of a weight motor oil in the engine....just a thought......

regards

woody
 
Jul 17, 2009
94
Endeavour/Chrysler E-32/C-22 swimming pool
Roger If I understand the problem right you will burn some of the oil, this is commen with diesels. Oil will get thru the rings to keep the cylinders lubed. Depending on how long after you run the engine and do the oil change will determine how much oil you may get. Some will stay above the valves and in other parts of the engine.
 
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