Wife and I just completed two days of sailing lessons on a 1972 26' Pearson (mainsail, jib, tiller). We expected to work, but the class was a bit overwhelming. We ended up with raw hands and blisters from pulling halyards for 4-5 hours each day, with no time allowed to explore the "joy of sailing". Our instructer was good, but too demanding. The tiller constantly banged our legs and ankles, resulting in many black-and-blues that my wife was not too happy about. Now I know, that if I do continue to pursue sailing, I need a boat for the bay with a 3' keel max, 25-26 ft in length, and with a wheel and roller furling. I'm a strong guy, and I don't mind pulling halyards, but I need to have some fun as well. Is there a boat to suit us given the above prerequisites?
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John Revenboer
sailing
I am surprised that you instructor did not have you wear sailing gloves to protect your hands since you are just learning the "ropes" so to speak. I must confess that probably one of the sweetest 26 foot boats anywhere is the Hunter 260. It has such gentle manners, and is an easy boat for a beginner to sail on their first day out. I sail my 260 single handed most of the time and it has a tiller. In fact I actually live on my 260.
I am surprised that you instructor did not have you wear sailing gloves to protect your hands since you are just learning the "ropes" so to speak. I must confess that probably one of the sweetest 26 foot boats anywhere is the Hunter 260. It has such gentle manners, and is an easy boat for a beginner to sail on their first day out. I sail my 260 single handed most of the time and it has a tiller. In fact I actually live on my 260.
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Frank Sears
I agree with John...
We bought a H260 last year and are having a good time with her. In winds less than 10 mph she's a dream to sail. And easy to single, and very easy with two. She is a bit tender above 15 mph and at 20, she's work. But even at 20, we can stay in control and handle her. Our problem is with the waves, not the wind. The waves beat us to death, and you have to steer up and down them. A real pain. We sleep very good at night after sailing a couple hours of 20 mph winds. I love the wheel! Below the head rooms only about 5'6", so it's tight. However, drive, before you buy... Good Luck!
We bought a H260 last year and are having a good time with her. In winds less than 10 mph she's a dream to sail. And easy to single, and very easy with two. She is a bit tender above 15 mph and at 20, she's work. But even at 20, we can stay in control and handle her. Our problem is with the waves, not the wind. The waves beat us to death, and you have to steer up and down them. A real pain. We sleep very good at night after sailing a couple hours of 20 mph winds. I love the wheel! Below the head rooms only about 5'6", so it's tight. However, drive, before you buy... Good Luck!
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Charlie T
Tiller in the way?
John, We found that the tiller is always in the way of legs and ankles, and it prohibits our vision looking forward. Don't you have a problem with this?
John, We found that the tiller is always in the way of legs and ankles, and it prohibits our vision looking forward. Don't you have a problem with this?
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Doug T.
Tiller extension
First, your tiller should tilt up so that it doesn't bang your legs. Second, you can add a tiller extension so you can sit anywhere in the cockpit or on the coamings or rail and control the tiller.
First, your tiller should tilt up so that it doesn't bang your legs. Second, you can add a tiller extension so you can sit anywhere in the cockpit or on the coamings or rail and control the tiller.
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K Cobb
tiller
I like the feel the tiller gives, compared to a wheel. With practice, I rarely bump myself in the knees while using a tiller. Given your story, I also wonder if your cockpit was too crowded on the day you sailed. That will put the helmsman in a jam sometimes.
I like the feel the tiller gives, compared to a wheel. With practice, I rarely bump myself in the knees while using a tiller. Given your story, I also wonder if your cockpit was too crowded on the day you sailed. That will put the helmsman in a jam sometimes.
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Geof Tillotson
Tiller is sweet
I prefer a tiller. On our 1976 O'Day 25 I recently replaced the old straight ash (original equipment) knee-banger with a new tiller that arc's up. It is one that BoatUS sells for the Catalina 25. It's high enough so that it doesn't bang you in the knees at all. I have a tiller extension and I use it when the conditions warrant. Otherwise I like the feel it gives. When the boat is sailing near perfect on a particular point of sail the water eddying off of the hull against the rudder makes the tiller vibrate, that's when I look at my speed indicator and smile inwardly that all is right with the world. The boat is doing what it was designed to do. A very satisfying feeling. Another "trick" I use quite often is to steer with the tiller between my knees. As I'm heading back in and coiling the lines, this method leaves my hands free to do the work. Also helps pass the time when sailing on the "iron jenny". As to wheels, they are nice, but I don't feel that I have the real "feel" of the boat. First off, how many turns is it to either block? Where is amid-ships? Has anyone out there re-located their kingpin since their steering cables have stretched/changed? Also, I don't feel as if the wheel truley transmits what's going on with the boat, but it is a personal preferance. Also, when is the last time you were able to easily get around the wheel on a 25 - 35 footer without squeezing through, around or past something? As to your sailing school. Was it a racing or cruising focused school? Sounds more like a sailing school where they have an agenda and are going to follow it. Did they ask you at all what your goals for the sailing school were? I've been through racing schools and all we ever did was sail in the toughest conditions we could find and really learn to work the gear. Totally uncomfortable sailing, but boy you would be amazed with what a boat will do. Sounds to me like the joy of casual sailing (about 20 minutes of sail chores) per outing, in my case usually a 3 to 4 hour leisurly sail around Boston Harbor Islands, was missed somewhere along the line. Hauling sails, trimming sails etc. is something that you choose to do out of comfort. With a roller furled headsail, raising and dousing the main are our only "chores" and my 11 year-old son is more than able to do it alone. For me I enjoy it, it also keeps me in touch with the condition/age of my gear. So, please don't let one experience with a sailing school set your opinion about things, by all means, you will find as many different views on sailing out there as there are folks who call themselves sailors. For us, it is a leisurely pastime that allows us to get "away from it all" without spending a fortune or having to travel huge distances by car. Fair winds and pleaseant anchorages, Geof s/v Day-O
I prefer a tiller. On our 1976 O'Day 25 I recently replaced the old straight ash (original equipment) knee-banger with a new tiller that arc's up. It is one that BoatUS sells for the Catalina 25. It's high enough so that it doesn't bang you in the knees at all. I have a tiller extension and I use it when the conditions warrant. Otherwise I like the feel it gives. When the boat is sailing near perfect on a particular point of sail the water eddying off of the hull against the rudder makes the tiller vibrate, that's when I look at my speed indicator and smile inwardly that all is right with the world. The boat is doing what it was designed to do. A very satisfying feeling. Another "trick" I use quite often is to steer with the tiller between my knees. As I'm heading back in and coiling the lines, this method leaves my hands free to do the work. Also helps pass the time when sailing on the "iron jenny". As to wheels, they are nice, but I don't feel that I have the real "feel" of the boat. First off, how many turns is it to either block? Where is amid-ships? Has anyone out there re-located their kingpin since their steering cables have stretched/changed? Also, I don't feel as if the wheel truley transmits what's going on with the boat, but it is a personal preferance. Also, when is the last time you were able to easily get around the wheel on a 25 - 35 footer without squeezing through, around or past something? As to your sailing school. Was it a racing or cruising focused school? Sounds more like a sailing school where they have an agenda and are going to follow it. Did they ask you at all what your goals for the sailing school were? I've been through racing schools and all we ever did was sail in the toughest conditions we could find and really learn to work the gear. Totally uncomfortable sailing, but boy you would be amazed with what a boat will do. Sounds to me like the joy of casual sailing (about 20 minutes of sail chores) per outing, in my case usually a 3 to 4 hour leisurly sail around Boston Harbor Islands, was missed somewhere along the line. Hauling sails, trimming sails etc. is something that you choose to do out of comfort. With a roller furled headsail, raising and dousing the main are our only "chores" and my 11 year-old son is more than able to do it alone. For me I enjoy it, it also keeps me in touch with the condition/age of my gear. So, please don't let one experience with a sailing school set your opinion about things, by all means, you will find as many different views on sailing out there as there are folks who call themselves sailors. For us, it is a leisurely pastime that allows us to get "away from it all" without spending a fortune or having to travel huge distances by car. Fair winds and pleaseant anchorages, Geof s/v Day-O
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Ron
A Jerk!
Your instructor is a jerk. Some people like to build up their own ego by making things a lot more difficult then they are. It sounds like you got one of these people. Sailing should be and is a relaxing sport without injuries. Sure, there is the occassional fire drill, but it should not be all day. I'm really sorry to hear that you and your wife were disappointed. I wish you live here near me; I would show you the right approach to relaxation. Don't give up! Take another course from a different teacher. You'll be glad you did.... Ron/KA5HZV
Your instructor is a jerk. Some people like to build up their own ego by making things a lot more difficult then they are. It sounds like you got one of these people. Sailing should be and is a relaxing sport without injuries. Sure, there is the occassional fire drill, but it should not be all day. I'm really sorry to hear that you and your wife were disappointed. I wish you live here near me; I would show you the right approach to relaxation. Don't give up! Take another course from a different teacher. You'll be glad you did.... Ron/KA5HZV
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Bill
Sailing Classes
My wife and I took lessons on a Pearson Ensign 3 years ago. The 2 day class, given by Nelson's Marina, was grueling but it was satisfying to receive our 'Basic Keelboat certification' As I look back on the training I could see the necessity to cover all of the required material in the short (16 hour) class. We now sail the Barnegat in our 290 Hunter. I think you can go with a 4 foot keel and have no problems. We sail all over the bay with our 3' 10" keel. Have un now!!!! S/V Amanda Gail
My wife and I took lessons on a Pearson Ensign 3 years ago. The 2 day class, given by Nelson's Marina, was grueling but it was satisfying to receive our 'Basic Keelboat certification' As I look back on the training I could see the necessity to cover all of the required material in the short (16 hour) class. We now sail the Barnegat in our 290 Hunter. I think you can go with a 4 foot keel and have no problems. We sail all over the bay with our 3' 10" keel. Have un now!!!! S/V Amanda Gail
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Denny P.
Sailing schools
It's unfortunate that sometimes you have to squeeze years of learning into two days as it sounds like you were forced into by your sailing instructor. But many classes are like that. As far as suggesting a specific boat for you to buy I think that you outta take wifey out in nice weather (that you choose) and introduce her to true sailing (relaxing) before you even think of investing in a boat or you could loose the person who could be your best sailing buddy. Tillers give you the most excitement and feel for your boat, but, I, personally have a wheel on my 29' boat and have had a wheel on the last two boats that I have owned. I like to cruise with my wifey at the helm and she (5'0 110 lbs.) is more comfortable with a wheel. It is hard to get around and I would, myself like a tiller when I'm singlehanding which I end up doing most of the time anyway. There are lotsa nice boats out there, but, they are all different, even when you are looking at a specific brand. Each and every boat has it's own personality. Make a list of what ya want, include your wife's desires in the list then go out with a broker and find what you think you want and take her out on a sea trial, in weather of your choosing. Buying a boat especially the wrong one can be expensive, and, if your partner is not happy with the choice you can end up with more expenses than just buying a boat, I.E. attorneys fees.... All the best..Denny P.
It's unfortunate that sometimes you have to squeeze years of learning into two days as it sounds like you were forced into by your sailing instructor. But many classes are like that. As far as suggesting a specific boat for you to buy I think that you outta take wifey out in nice weather (that you choose) and introduce her to true sailing (relaxing) before you even think of investing in a boat or you could loose the person who could be your best sailing buddy. Tillers give you the most excitement and feel for your boat, but, I, personally have a wheel on my 29' boat and have had a wheel on the last two boats that I have owned. I like to cruise with my wifey at the helm and she (5'0 110 lbs.) is more comfortable with a wheel. It is hard to get around and I would, myself like a tiller when I'm singlehanding which I end up doing most of the time anyway. There are lotsa nice boats out there, but, they are all different, even when you are looking at a specific brand. Each and every boat has it's own personality. Make a list of what ya want, include your wife's desires in the list then go out with a broker and find what you think you want and take her out on a sea trial, in weather of your choosing. Buying a boat especially the wrong one can be expensive, and, if your partner is not happy with the choice you can end up with more expenses than just buying a boat, I.E. attorneys fees.... All the best..Denny P.
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Ray Bowles
Charlie, Having only read about 1/2 of the replys
to your post I would strongly suggest a H26 rather than a 260 and I would make it manditory that she have stern rail seats. The 26 has a tiller and with the stern rail seats and a tiller extension you can sit up high in these seats and steer very easily. You also can see much higher over the top of the boat in these seats. We very often single hand sail our boat and the tiller makes this much nicer rather than walking around the wheel. We tried both and have sailed our 26 very hard and long. Try before you buy. While doing this be sure to spend at least 2 to 3 hours and sail all points of sail. Ray S/V Speedy
to your post I would strongly suggest a H26 rather than a 260 and I would make it manditory that she have stern rail seats. The 26 has a tiller and with the stern rail seats and a tiller extension you can sit up high in these seats and steer very easily. You also can see much higher over the top of the boat in these seats. We very often single hand sail our boat and the tiller makes this much nicer rather than walking around the wheel. We tried both and have sailed our 26 very hard and long. Try before you buy. While doing this be sure to spend at least 2 to 3 hours and sail all points of sail. Ray S/V Speedy
Some food for thought.
Charlie: Just a little food for thought. I understand you feelings about the instructor. You may want to look at this in a little different view. He may have trying to give you as much instruction as he could fit in to the alloted amount of time. Now about the new boat. Be careful what you wish for in a shoal draft boat. I very much doubt that you need to keep the keel to 3'. There are many boats sailing in your area with a keel deeper than this. Now unless you are strictly looking at a trailerable boat broaden your specs a little. You are going to be much happier with a keel boat. You may want to consider one of the later models of the Hunter 27 (Cherubini Design). These boats can be purchased at a very good price with a wheel and all the goodies that you are looking for. The keel is a little deeper but not too deep for your area. Also a Newporter, Catalina and several other brands. Once you've start your search get back to this site and get somemore answers to your novice questions.
Charlie: Just a little food for thought. I understand you feelings about the instructor. You may want to look at this in a little different view. He may have trying to give you as much instruction as he could fit in to the alloted amount of time. Now about the new boat. Be careful what you wish for in a shoal draft boat. I very much doubt that you need to keep the keel to 3'. There are many boats sailing in your area with a keel deeper than this. Now unless you are strictly looking at a trailerable boat broaden your specs a little. You are going to be much happier with a keel boat. You may want to consider one of the later models of the Hunter 27 (Cherubini Design). These boats can be purchased at a very good price with a wheel and all the goodies that you are looking for. The keel is a little deeper but not too deep for your area. Also a Newporter, Catalina and several other brands. Once you've start your search get back to this site and get somemore answers to your novice questions.
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Lucy
You do need to have more fun
I think you should start sailing with a small boat like a Sunfish or Hobie Cat. It gets you in touch with the water. It is a wet ride, but talk about fun. You get acclamated to the water and wind in a Sunfish. Common sense kicks in and you get what sailing is all about. Struggling with a large boat when you are not ready is real work. Some times frightening. Take a gentler approach. Choose something about 14 feet,that won't sink if you tip over. Being able to right your boat is very comforting. A Hobie Cat is the same. Try something that won't be so drastic if you turn over. Hope this helps you.
I think you should start sailing with a small boat like a Sunfish or Hobie Cat. It gets you in touch with the water. It is a wet ride, but talk about fun. You get acclamated to the water and wind in a Sunfish. Common sense kicks in and you get what sailing is all about. Struggling with a large boat when you are not ready is real work. Some times frightening. Take a gentler approach. Choose something about 14 feet,that won't sink if you tip over. Being able to right your boat is very comforting. A Hobie Cat is the same. Try something that won't be so drastic if you turn over. Hope this helps you.
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Sam Lust
Steve Doesn't know Barnegat bay!
Charlie; I sail Barnegat Bay on a Hunter 33 with a draft of 4 feet and believe me, 4 feet is realisticly the limit. The way the bay shoals up 20% of it is sailable with 4 feet, but closer to 60% is sailable with 3 feet. I know this because I had a Lancer with 3' draft. In addition many of the lagoons you'll traverse have a limiting depth of around 3'. Unless you enjoy bumpy ride. Best way to learn Barnegat Bay is with a swing keel. My Clipper 21, which I still have, and my later McGregor 25 both had swing keels and we could test the limits with impunity, knowing that a twirl of the crank would get us off a "grounding". A Sunfish, which I also happen to have is absolutely the BEST way to learn the feel and control of a sail boat. Want help finding out what it's all about? Come sailing with us on Barnegat Bay. This is a real invitation - not just Hot wind. You can try the Clipper or the Sunfish, or for that matter my 11 foot Pelican sailing dinghy. (Of this collection the 33 is the only one with a wheel, which is probably not as bad a many of the guys paint it when properly adjusted. My wift just took what I believe was the same class in Point Pleasant and enjoyed it a lot, but I know the instructor was different, as it was a woman. (Who ran them aground. but that's another post.) Interested? We're only about 10 minutes from you. Sam Lust tech051@mindspring.com 908-925-1073 609-693-8679
Charlie; I sail Barnegat Bay on a Hunter 33 with a draft of 4 feet and believe me, 4 feet is realisticly the limit. The way the bay shoals up 20% of it is sailable with 4 feet, but closer to 60% is sailable with 3 feet. I know this because I had a Lancer with 3' draft. In addition many of the lagoons you'll traverse have a limiting depth of around 3'. Unless you enjoy bumpy ride. Best way to learn Barnegat Bay is with a swing keel. My Clipper 21, which I still have, and my later McGregor 25 both had swing keels and we could test the limits with impunity, knowing that a twirl of the crank would get us off a "grounding". A Sunfish, which I also happen to have is absolutely the BEST way to learn the feel and control of a sail boat. Want help finding out what it's all about? Come sailing with us on Barnegat Bay. This is a real invitation - not just Hot wind. You can try the Clipper or the Sunfish, or for that matter my 11 foot Pelican sailing dinghy. (Of this collection the 33 is the only one with a wheel, which is probably not as bad a many of the guys paint it when properly adjusted. My wift just took what I believe was the same class in Point Pleasant and enjoyed it a lot, but I know the instructor was different, as it was a woman. (Who ran them aground. but that's another post.) Interested? We're only about 10 minutes from you. Sam Lust tech051@mindspring.com 908-925-1073 609-693-8679
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Bruce Mulford
I agree with Sam Lust....
I kept an O'Day 222 on the Barnegat (Waretown) for over 11 years. She had a 20" lead keel and a centerboard that when down made the total draft 4'. Plus, the swingup rudder was about 3.5 feet. We used to regularly push up the centerboard and frequently push the rudder up. I would recommend 4' or less. Good luck.
I kept an O'Day 222 on the Barnegat (Waretown) for over 11 years. She had a 20" lead keel and a centerboard that when down made the total draft 4'. Plus, the swingup rudder was about 3.5 feet. We used to regularly push up the centerboard and frequently push the rudder up. I would recommend 4' or less. Good luck.
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Bruce Mulford
But my favorite boat to sail on the Barnegat was..
my Sunfish. When the wind got really blowing the way it can on the Barnegat and I wasn't sure I wanted to take the 222 out in those conditions I would go out in the Sunfish. Nothing like a screaming run down the bay to polish your sailing skills, take your mind off anything but sailing (or was it keeping your mind on staying upright?).
my Sunfish. When the wind got really blowing the way it can on the Barnegat and I wasn't sure I wanted to take the 222 out in those conditions I would go out in the Sunfish. Nothing like a screaming run down the bay to polish your sailing skills, take your mind off anything but sailing (or was it keeping your mind on staying upright?).
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John Rich
Barnegat Bay Sailers
I've got an 1984 O'day 23 centerboarder draws 2ft. min to 5ft max with the board down. Might be a good bet for the Bay. By the by are there any places down that way that one can launch and recover and safely leave your vehicle and trailer for a week? Always wanted to explore the area. Regards, John
I've got an 1984 O'day 23 centerboarder draws 2ft. min to 5ft max with the board down. Might be a good bet for the Bay. By the by are there any places down that way that one can launch and recover and safely leave your vehicle and trailer for a week? Always wanted to explore the area. Regards, John
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