I am searching for a sailboat for myself and grandaughter. Neither of us have sailed before but I am willing to take class for keelboat cert. I have been focusing on a Macgregor 25 for convenience (trailerable), stable and good learner and could spend an overnight or two. I know there are other alternative swing-keel boats which could fit the bill but I'm not knowlegable enough about them. Does anybody have any suggestions? Since I'm in Colorado (and that's where we would sail) there are not a lot of Macgregors available and I'd like some options. My budget is in the $5000 range! Also any other pointers would be greatly appreciated.
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Start shopping
The Hunter 24's and 26's are in the same class (water ballast) as the MacGregor. Go on-line and get a feel for the prices being charged for used boats in your area. You may be able to get close to $5000 but I fear the unseen repairs will eat into your budget. Since you got all that snow today, take a classroom sailing course this winter and get set up for an on-the-water class in the spring. In between, read, read, read.
The Hunter 24's and 26's are in the same class (water ballast) as the MacGregor. Go on-line and get a feel for the prices being charged for used boats in your area. You may be able to get close to $5000 but I fear the unseen repairs will eat into your budget. Since you got all that snow today, take a classroom sailing course this winter and get set up for an on-the-water class in the spring. In between, read, read, read.
No call
higgs ... Care to support that statement? Or are you just spouting what you say Mac's are built like?
higgs ... Care to support that statement? Or are you just spouting what you say Mac's are built like?
The Catalina C25 is a real good boat to start out
You can read a lot about the C25 at the C25 International Association web site. You can do lots of reading there and they also have boats listed for sale. Dan http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/
You can read a lot about the C25 at the C25 International Association web site. You can do lots of reading there and they also have boats listed for sale. Dan http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/
I owned both the Catalina 25 and a Mac 25
Both are vastly different from each other. each one serves a different purpose. If I were to leave it in one place all the time, I deffinately would go for the Catalina 25.No doubt about it. If i were to be trailering a lot, then the Mac 25 would deffinately be my first choice. Higgs is just spouting out all his worldly knowledge he gained from reading a lot of crap.
Both are vastly different from each other. each one serves a different purpose. If I were to leave it in one place all the time, I deffinately would go for the Catalina 25.No doubt about it. If i were to be trailering a lot, then the Mac 25 would deffinately be my first choice. Higgs is just spouting out all his worldly knowledge he gained from reading a lot of crap.
The 22-25 range
My previous boat was a Hunter 22, 1982. I had a lot of work that I had done on it and it was a great boat. It ended up selling for around $5000. I sailed it on the Chesapeake Bay and I had been out for 10 days in it. It was a very forgiving boat and it was a joy to sail. The quality was pretty good on this boat. At one point I wanted to get a Hunter 260 (water Ballest) but I have gone away from a trailer with my new boat. The Hunter 260 and Hunter 240 are nice boats but they will be more expensive than $5000. The older Catalina 25 is a descent boat. I know of a Catalina 25 that was sailed to Hawaii and back. There is descent room inside of the boats and they sail descently (I have sailed on one a few times). I have no experience with the Macs. I wouldn't buy one, personally, and there is a lot of people who don't like them. The company is still making boats and selling them, so someone must like them. Figure out what you want to do with the boat. Do you want to cruise for some periods of time or do you just want to daysail. Are you going to slip the boat or are you going to trailer sail. I will say one thing about trailer sailing. After some time doing that I found that I got really tired of stepping the mast everytime I sailed the boat. Ideally, if I was to ever to trailer sail again, I would keep the boat in a marnina where I could keep it on the trailer and not put the mast down. Not too many people complain about buying too big of a boat. Some people upgrade after a short time to a bigger boat if they buy too small. Good luck, welcome to sailing, and look at lots of boats to get a better idea on what you want.
My previous boat was a Hunter 22, 1982. I had a lot of work that I had done on it and it was a great boat. It ended up selling for around $5000. I sailed it on the Chesapeake Bay and I had been out for 10 days in it. It was a very forgiving boat and it was a joy to sail. The quality was pretty good on this boat. At one point I wanted to get a Hunter 260 (water Ballest) but I have gone away from a trailer with my new boat. The Hunter 260 and Hunter 240 are nice boats but they will be more expensive than $5000. The older Catalina 25 is a descent boat. I know of a Catalina 25 that was sailed to Hawaii and back. There is descent room inside of the boats and they sail descently (I have sailed on one a few times). I have no experience with the Macs. I wouldn't buy one, personally, and there is a lot of people who don't like them. The company is still making boats and selling them, so someone must like them. Figure out what you want to do with the boat. Do you want to cruise for some periods of time or do you just want to daysail. Are you going to slip the boat or are you going to trailer sail. I will say one thing about trailer sailing. After some time doing that I found that I got really tired of stepping the mast everytime I sailed the boat. Ideally, if I was to ever to trailer sail again, I would keep the boat in a marnina where I could keep it on the trailer and not put the mast down. Not too many people complain about buying too big of a boat. Some people upgrade after a short time to a bigger boat if they buy too small. Good luck, welcome to sailing, and look at lots of boats to get a better idea on what you want.
Higgs
I owned a MAC 25 and it was one of the best boasts I ever had...feast handled like a dream and was sturdy enough for sailing in the great lakes. doesn't really seem to fit your statment very well....I too would love to know the facts behind your comment
I owned a MAC 25 and it was one of the best boasts I ever had...feast handled like a dream and was sturdy enough for sailing in the great lakes. doesn't really seem to fit your statment very well....I too would love to know the facts behind your comment
Try before you buy
Lots of opinions here, but what is important to you? Will you trailer the boat frequently? If so, then look at a water-ballasted boat (Macgregor, Hunter), especially if your trailering vehicle is anything less than a full size truck. However, if stability is more important, then go with a stub keel/centerboard or swing keel trailerable boat (Oday 22, 23, 25, Rhodes 22, Catalina 22, 25). They carry their ballast lower than the water ballasted boats and therefore may be a stiffer and more stable. They are also much heavier on land and more difficult to tow. In short, every boat is a series of compromises, and the smartest thing you can do is sail on as many different boats as you can before you buy one. Learn what you like, don't like, hate, don't care about, etc. After sailing one summer on a Catalina 22 where the portapotti is in the middle of the cabin, my wife insisted that when choosing a boat to buy, I find one with a seprate head compartment. That lead me to the Oday 23, a choice I have been happy with ever since. Amazing what turns out to be important.
Lots of opinions here, but what is important to you? Will you trailer the boat frequently? If so, then look at a water-ballasted boat (Macgregor, Hunter), especially if your trailering vehicle is anything less than a full size truck. However, if stability is more important, then go with a stub keel/centerboard or swing keel trailerable boat (Oday 22, 23, 25, Rhodes 22, Catalina 22, 25). They carry their ballast lower than the water ballasted boats and therefore may be a stiffer and more stable. They are also much heavier on land and more difficult to tow. In short, every boat is a series of compromises, and the smartest thing you can do is sail on as many different boats as you can before you buy one. Learn what you like, don't like, hate, don't care about, etc. After sailing one summer on a Catalina 22 where the portapotti is in the middle of the cabin, my wife insisted that when choosing a boat to buy, I find one with a seprate head compartment. That lead me to the Oday 23, a choice I have been happy with ever since. Amazing what turns out to be important.
The world is full of.....
The world is full of MacGregor bashing boat snobs. When I get too old to handle a larger boat (my 39 Allied ketch), I plan on buying a new Mac. Macs are like the VW bug in the 60's. It was by no means a quality car by any stretch of the imagination, but it was cheap to buy, economical to run and fun to drive. But then again, the VW wasnt really a car.
The world is full of MacGregor bashing boat snobs. When I get too old to handle a larger boat (my 39 Allied ketch), I plan on buying a new Mac. Macs are like the VW bug in the 60's. It was by no means a quality car by any stretch of the imagination, but it was cheap to buy, economical to run and fun to drive. But then again, the VW wasnt really a car.
HIGGS........If the shoe fits.....
My statement of 'boat snobs' came 7 or 8 posts after your statement.."MacGregors are not really sailboats and are built like crap". So, what ever would lead you to believe that I was pointing you out in the crowd?. I guess we think alike...only a schmuck would openly insult another sailors boat. You dont have to agree with others, as a matter of fact, your last response on why you wouldnt own a mac was a great one. But for God's sake, try to be a little bit more delicate toward other people piece of crap Tony B
My statement of 'boat snobs' came 7 or 8 posts after your statement.."MacGregors are not really sailboats and are built like crap". So, what ever would lead you to believe that I was pointing you out in the crowd?. I guess we think alike...only a schmuck would openly insult another sailors boat. You dont have to agree with others, as a matter of fact, your last response on why you wouldnt own a mac was a great one. But for God's sake, try to be a little bit more delicate toward other people piece of crap Tony B
Mac 25 fine little boat
Lightly built and fairly tender it is easy to trailer and fun to sail. An old Mac 26D is also a pretty good boat that has water ballast and is even easier to tow. The new Mac 26 I really dislike. A catalina 22 is a really nice little boat for daysailing and some overnighting. It will be real hard to find a decent cruiser for $5000 but an older Catalina 22 should be available at that price. Though I generally don't like swing keels they are great for learning and running around is usually a non-event with a swing keel that isn't locked down.
Lightly built and fairly tender it is easy to trailer and fun to sail. An old Mac 26D is also a pretty good boat that has water ballast and is even easier to tow. The new Mac 26 I really dislike. A catalina 22 is a really nice little boat for daysailing and some overnighting. It will be real hard to find a decent cruiser for $5000 but an older Catalina 22 should be available at that price. Though I generally don't like swing keels they are great for learning and running around is usually a non-event with a swing keel that isn't locked down.
Swing Keel
I learned to sail on a Mac 25. For what it is, its a great little boat. Fortunately, where i sail is nothing but sand or mud bottom, so grounding is a 'non event'. We used our swing keel as a depth finder. We would go until it hit bottom, drop the anchor and crank up the keel. But,OH MAN, was it ever noisey when we went to sleep. If someone were to trailer sail A LOT, i would suggest a slightly newer Mac. By the end of the 1980's, Roger MacGregor had brought raising and lowering a mast to an art form. I personally dont know of anyone that ever lost a Mac due to weather, although I'm sure it happens. The one thing that I do know is that most boats can take a serious amount of weather much much better than the people on board. You will see lots of Macs in the Bahamas and also in the US Virgin Islands, where it is always rough compared to here in the states.
I learned to sail on a Mac 25. For what it is, its a great little boat. Fortunately, where i sail is nothing but sand or mud bottom, so grounding is a 'non event'. We used our swing keel as a depth finder. We would go until it hit bottom, drop the anchor and crank up the keel. But,OH MAN, was it ever noisey when we went to sleep. If someone were to trailer sail A LOT, i would suggest a slightly newer Mac. By the end of the 1980's, Roger MacGregor had brought raising and lowering a mast to an art form. I personally dont know of anyone that ever lost a Mac due to weather, although I'm sure it happens. The one thing that I do know is that most boats can take a serious amount of weather much much better than the people on board. You will see lots of Macs in the Bahamas and also in the US Virgin Islands, where it is always rough compared to here in the states.
Oday 22
I had an Oday 22 and it was a great boat. I don't really want to get in the middle of this arguement but I don't like Macs either. My only experience was with my brother's Mac 22. I found the standing rigging, spars and the hull construction to be less substantial that my Oday. The decks flexed under my weight (OK, I admit it, I'm closer to a linebacker than a ballerina!). I also seemed a lot more cramped below than my Oday. All in all, I feel my Oday was a better boat all around. Maybe the Mac 25's are built better, I don't know. I'm just basing MY OPINION (of which we are all entitled) on my experience and trying to relate that in a manner that doesn't offend anybody. Am I being PC enough? Tom s/v Orion's Child
I had an Oday 22 and it was a great boat. I don't really want to get in the middle of this arguement but I don't like Macs either. My only experience was with my brother's Mac 22. I found the standing rigging, spars and the hull construction to be less substantial that my Oday. The decks flexed under my weight (OK, I admit it, I'm closer to a linebacker than a ballerina!). I also seemed a lot more cramped below than my Oday. All in all, I feel my Oday was a better boat all around. Maybe the Mac 25's are built better, I don't know. I'm just basing MY OPINION (of which we are all entitled) on my experience and trying to relate that in a manner that doesn't offend anybody. Am I being PC enough? Tom s/v Orion's Child
Mac vs. others
The main reason that Macs come up in these kinds of posts are because of price. Most boats are better built than Macs, no doubt about it. Like i said in an earlier post, Mac were the VW's of the water world. Buying a boat is a difficult thing to do. If I was to compare my Mac 25 to my Catalina 25 strictly as a sailing vessel, the Catalina would win by a mile. A decent Catalina 25 with a good O/B will run about 5 to 6 kilobucks, where as a decent Mac 25 with good O/B will probably only run about $2,500. The swing keel as opposed to the fin keel is another consideration. Again, strictly from a sailing point of view, they are not even in the same league. The swing keel aint even in the race. Now, back to which boat, i would choose........If it always was docked and sailed in the same area, and I had the $5K, i would most deffinately get he Catalina 25. If I intended to trailer sail a lot, then the Mac 25 would be the winner. Actually, I would somehow muster up the money (silk stocking over the head thing) and get the newer Mac 26D for about $5K. The water ballast makes for a lighter trailering boat and the raising and lowering the mast thing was greatly improved. This in itself is a MAJOR MAJOR issue if trailering a lot, unless of course you are a long armed mega-jock. Not an easy decision, but you will love whatever your final choice turns out to be. Live just seems to work that way. Tony B
The main reason that Macs come up in these kinds of posts are because of price. Most boats are better built than Macs, no doubt about it. Like i said in an earlier post, Mac were the VW's of the water world. Buying a boat is a difficult thing to do. If I was to compare my Mac 25 to my Catalina 25 strictly as a sailing vessel, the Catalina would win by a mile. A decent Catalina 25 with a good O/B will run about 5 to 6 kilobucks, where as a decent Mac 25 with good O/B will probably only run about $2,500. The swing keel as opposed to the fin keel is another consideration. Again, strictly from a sailing point of view, they are not even in the same league. The swing keel aint even in the race. Now, back to which boat, i would choose........If it always was docked and sailed in the same area, and I had the $5K, i would most deffinately get he Catalina 25. If I intended to trailer sail a lot, then the Mac 25 would be the winner. Actually, I would somehow muster up the money (silk stocking over the head thing) and get the newer Mac 26D for about $5K. The water ballast makes for a lighter trailering boat and the raising and lowering the mast thing was greatly improved. This in itself is a MAJOR MAJOR issue if trailering a lot, unless of course you are a long armed mega-jock. Not an easy decision, but you will love whatever your final choice turns out to be. Live just seems to work that way. Tony B
Excellent Post
Tony, you sort out the madness and the B.S. in your last post here. Just wanted to say you get your point across well and it is a pleasure to come on this board and find the sanity of your unbias contributions. I thank you Tom
Tony, you sort out the madness and the B.S. in your last post here. Just wanted to say you get your point across well and it is a pleasure to come on this board and find the sanity of your unbias contributions. I thank you Tom
Hunter 23
I recently purchased a hunter 23, and contrary to popular opinion I have found it EASIER to go on and off the trailer than the slip. In fact, If I ever aquire a waterside property, I'm going to keep a boat trailer submerged for my boat. Line yourself up, power on and everything comes to a nice smooth halt from the keel sliding on the boards below. Kinda like an F-14 landing on a carrier, then just winch the thing on shore. Back to reality- with a little innovation, even a "big" 23 footer like my hunter can be easily trailer-sailed. If you don't have a heavy tow vehicle, the water ballast may be worth it, but I personally wouldn't exceed 50 or 60 mph with my boat back there anyway. Lets just say, I went out on sunday and when conditions got over my limit, I was very grateful to have 800 lbs of iron down there- A little fuss launching and retrieving is worth it If you want to sail on a gusty day, go for something with metal ballast. Also, I'm a fan of the swing keel because it lets me sail in about 3' of water (and just as a note- i never actually planned to use the keel as an anchor)
I recently purchased a hunter 23, and contrary to popular opinion I have found it EASIER to go on and off the trailer than the slip. In fact, If I ever aquire a waterside property, I'm going to keep a boat trailer submerged for my boat. Line yourself up, power on and everything comes to a nice smooth halt from the keel sliding on the boards below. Kinda like an F-14 landing on a carrier, then just winch the thing on shore. Back to reality- with a little innovation, even a "big" 23 footer like my hunter can be easily trailer-sailed. If you don't have a heavy tow vehicle, the water ballast may be worth it, but I personally wouldn't exceed 50 or 60 mph with my boat back there anyway. Lets just say, I went out on sunday and when conditions got over my limit, I was very grateful to have 800 lbs of iron down there- A little fuss launching and retrieving is worth it If you want to sail on a gusty day, go for something with metal ballast. Also, I'm a fan of the swing keel because it lets me sail in about 3' of water (and just as a note- i never actually planned to use the keel as an anchor)
Doty's Boat
Robert With a little experience, these decisions get easier to make.So, my suggestion is: 1. Read the posts that came in before this one - all have good advice. 2. Buy something and get out on the water. Then you will learn what is important to YOU in a sailboat.Renting/chartering is a good way to see what you want, but(see no.3). 3. If you shop around a bit, pay a reasonable price, and maintain your boat well, you could probably sell it for near the price you paid, then look for another boat. 4. Remember- grandchildren grow up fast Fred T
Robert With a little experience, these decisions get easier to make.So, my suggestion is: 1. Read the posts that came in before this one - all have good advice. 2. Buy something and get out on the water. Then you will learn what is important to YOU in a sailboat.Renting/chartering is a good way to see what you want, but(see no.3). 3. If you shop around a bit, pay a reasonable price, and maintain your boat well, you could probably sell it for near the price you paid, then look for another boat. 4. Remember- grandchildren grow up fast Fred T
Never Sailed??
One thing I should mention is that sailing is not for everyone. Maybe the sentence should be capitalized in bold print. I loved sailing from my first time on a sunfish. My first wife never did like it very much and I sailed mostly alone. My second wife loves sailing!!!! Of our four children 2 liked sailing two did not. Sailing can be incredibly boring and very scarey...sometimes the same day!!! I have sit drinking beer or whatever imagining wind all morning and then spent the afternoon hiding from high winds and lightening from a thunderstorm. Try to go sailing with someone a couple of times before buying. Sailboats are relatively hard to sell most places. As for the final choice of boat "I have never sailed a boat that I didn't enjoy sailing". Even a wind surfer is a blast to sail if you are nimble enough.
One thing I should mention is that sailing is not for everyone. Maybe the sentence should be capitalized in bold print. I loved sailing from my first time on a sunfish. My first wife never did like it very much and I sailed mostly alone. My second wife loves sailing!!!! Of our four children 2 liked sailing two did not. Sailing can be incredibly boring and very scarey...sometimes the same day!!! I have sit drinking beer or whatever imagining wind all morning and then spent the afternoon hiding from high winds and lightening from a thunderstorm. Try to go sailing with someone a couple of times before buying. Sailboats are relatively hard to sell most places. As for the final choice of boat "I have never sailed a boat that I didn't enjoy sailing". Even a wind surfer is a blast to sail if you are nimble enough.
Keep it coming fellas
I really appreciate all the insight....a great bunch of information for anybody new to sailing! FYI I looked at a decent Catalina 22 last night. Needs a little TLC but it's completely sailable and the price is right (<$3000).....even comes complete with snow! I haven't made a final decision and there's no hurry so I'll keep my options open. Again, Thanks
I really appreciate all the insight....a great bunch of information for anybody new to sailing! FYI I looked at a decent Catalina 22 last night. Needs a little TLC but it's completely sailable and the price is right (<$3000).....even comes complete with snow! I haven't made a final decision and there's no hurry so I'll keep my options open. Again, Thanks
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