Non-Marine Small Propane Stove: "No" or "Yes But"?

[rardiH36]

I'm seeking info/opinions about cons of using a light duty non-marine small propane stove in the cabin. Fuel source would be those small Coleman type propane canisters. Our use would be to warm up pre-made food and heat water for coffee on the occasional overnight at anchor. Because of the low intensity use, I'm reluctant to spend the many hundred's for a marine stove.

Here is an example of an all stainless stove camping stove of the type I'm thinking about.
http://www.rei.com/product/737001

I have read that propane on a boat needs to be used carefully since unlit propane will accumulate dangerously inside the cabin. We are in a temperate climate. The companion way is almost always open and also all the ports on my boat open.

My idea would be to secure the stove in a dedicated area underneath our counter area's removable cutting board. Originally, the boat had a full oven in this area which was removed sometime along the way by a previous owner. I could do the installation in a non-destructive way so that a future owner would be able to install another cooking unit.

Many thanks

 

[svenusa]

propane sinks

gas sinks, so it will accumulate in the bilge if not careful, whether the hatches are open or not.....

Marine installs usually put the propane tank in a separate box, with a drain that goes to a through hull to vent outside..

Maybe you could keep the propane tank in a bag on one of the rails like a marine gas grill - just take it below when you need it ??

 

[Hermit Scott]

I have one of those round marine grills hanging on the stern rail. It uses those small containers. I have read many times that they leak. So I never bring them in the boat. I keep them in a cockpit lazzaret that is sealed from the cabin. If I used the stove you propose, I would bring the containers in to use them and them keep them in a propane locker, or stern rail box/bag when I was done. The stove is fine, it's the fuel that is the danger.
I have an alcohol stove I haven't hooked up yet. I am looking at buying a 2 burner hot plate to use at the dock. But I don't want to buy something that will be covered in rust in a week. everyone has SS ones, but the burners themselves are cast iron on the ones I have seen.

 

[Steve Dion]

Counter top butane stove.

http://www.amazon.com/Burton-Portable-Table-Butane-Stove/dp/B0000DI5GD

These things really work. They get very hot and easy to store. We have one aboard for an emergency if we run out of fuel for our regular stove (CNG).

 

[Maine Sail]

Rardi,

Using that set up would not meet any of the current LPG marine standards. Not that you have to, but your insurance company may not be too happy about the use of propane in that manner if there were a fire or explosion. If you do, I would at the least invest in a Zintex, or similar, propane sniffer system. Those green bottles are notorious for not re-sealing when you remove them from the pressure regulator. Be careful!

 

[Ross]

The biggest danger with a propane stove comes when the fire gets blown out but the gas isn't turned off. This is the reason for the safety valve and the thermocouple for eack burner on a marine stove. If you are simmering a pot over a small flame it is easy to blow the flame out on a windy day. On a camp stove on a picnic table there is almost no risk but if the camp stove is on the galley table then the gas can accumlate on low places and go boom.

 

[jimford2158]

I have a propane tank in the lazerette at the aft deck which has an electric shut-off valve operated from a switch in the galley. I have a 2 burner non-marine rated stove in place of the 3 burner w/oven that kept bursting into flames when lighting. I don't see any difference between a new marine type and a non-marine except the price! The 2 burner is stainless and looks nicer than the old porcelain one also. I shut the tank valve when not in use, but I am glad it had the remote switch when the stove top looked like special fx film. The only thing different is the new stove isn't gimballed yet.

 

[sailingdog]

Jim—

IIRC, most non-marine stoves do not have the safety thermocouple that shuts the gas flow down if the flame goes out.

 

[MrBee]

rardiH36,
please post if you buy this stove to let us know how well it works. I would be interested in it. A 2 burner would make things a little easier at dinner time.

Brian

 

[DannyS]

I used this one for years...

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p...Id=4054433&cp=2367438.2367824.2277089.2277090

I'm not advising going against "the rules" but this one served me well on our previous boat. I stored the tank on the rail in a bag and brought it below when needed. I mounted the stove on a board that dropped into the old alcohol stove that came with the boat. I could pull the stove out to cook in the cockpit if it was nice out. Having a sniffer type alarm would be a good idea.

 

[Don12364]

Common Sense Rules

Propane cookers are almost universal on yachts in Europe using either fixed or portable types and we have very stringent regulations too. The fuel is either Calor or GAZ both being trade names for a mixture of propane and butane, the propane being present to enhance vapourisation at temperatures below freezing.
Many smaller boats are fitted from new with the type of cooker in your link. They are often seen on French racing boats and smaller boats from Beneteau.
Presumably the cooker in the link is intended for campers, motor homes, RVs and the like. The main difference is that on a boat one sometimes cooks under way. If so then gimbals are needed - if not no gimbals.
A flame failure device is a good idea but how many portables have this? It would be worthwhile looking for one which does.
One can easily smell the gas long before it reaches explosive concentrations because they add some 'pong' to the gas just for this reason - but one needs to be present to detect it. anyway it is not a good idea to leave the area with the stove running - as with all other types of cooker except electric.

Canister leaks are almost unheard of if one fits the canister, checks for possible leaks and then does not remove it again until spent.
We all use these canisters on our blow torches and barbecues at home and just leave them in our garages with no problems - often right next to a car with 100 gallons of gasoline in the tank!

Being heavier than air the gas sinks into bilges etc where it lurks waiting to blow you to the heavens. If you are worried fit a gas alarm but hardly anyone this side of the ocean does.
And remember to keep a ventilation path open to fresh air as the cooker will deplete the oxygen in the cabin and then introduce carbon monoxide and everyone goes for the long and unending sleep.
But then is this not the case for all types of cooking in enclosed spaces?

 

[druid]

The Official Word is NO! Propane inside the cabin is Bad, and campstoves are not designed for marine operation.

That said: after innumerable fires I replaced my alcohol stove (unlike my friend, I didn't throw the burning POS out the companionway into the sea...) with a Coleman propane campstove in my Cal 25. I used the portable, disposable tanks, and ran it that way for years, even lived aboard for a summer.

The Trick is to use your built-in Propane Detector (hint: it's in the middle of your face...) and remove the tank and store it outside when you're not on the boat.

druid

 

[Ross]

The Official Word is NO! Propane inside the cabin is Bad, and campstoves are not designed for marine operation.



druid

Careless use of gas cookers is bad! Careless use of any kind of cooker is bad. Most people get into trouble with propane because it works so well. Propane will boil water faster than a microwave oven. It will get a 10 inch skillet smoking hot in less than five minutes.
I saw fishing boats in the Philippine Islands that used a brick lined sand box and a wood fire for the cooking. I am sure that cook would have traded for a propane stove in a heartbeat.

 

[Maine Sail]

In reality the only source that can answer this question for you is your own insurance underwriter. If you have an insured boat you would be very, very wise to call them and ask their position on a non approved cooking device and portable propane tanks inside the cabin. Also ask them if you are covered for explosion or fire if you use one.

I have seen a boat blow up from a propane leak, with two people on-board. It happened in Boothbay Harbor and it's pretty damn scary. This explosion split the hull to deck seam open and surprisingly the occupants lived. Propane is great but needs to be treated with the utmost respect on a boat.

 

[Ross]

A small propane throwaway cylinder can provide enough fuel to mix with a couple of hundred cubic feet of air to make about a three pound bomb. That will be plenty to take a boat apart.

 

[rardiH36]

Thanks for All the Useful Responses

Thanks for all the responses with lots of excellent points and warnings to consider.

I had a feeling that the simple and low $'s stove solution would have some safety issues which is why I made the post.

I'll "sleep on it" all for a while, but I'm leaning towards the European solution and look for a portable with flame/heat/leakage safety features ... like the one offered on this site's host company: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.htm?group=739.

Then, I'll make sure that after each meal, the canister is stored outside or put in a locker with dedicated venting on the bottom to the outside. (An aside on this subject, I've googled, but couldn't find any sort of screw on safety cap that one could screw on the standard propane canister to add double protection against gas escape. Does such a critter exist?) Also I'll give consideration to a propane gas detector.

Like Donalex observed, most of us DIY'er types have used propane canisters for years in various applications without ever a problem. But no sense in tempting fate on a boat.

Mistakes and inattention happen. My own closest skirt for a propane "situation" was only a few months ago following a home copper plumbing modification when I didn't tighten my torch fitting's shut off valve firmly enough. With the garage windows and the garage door open when putting the torch away, I didn't notice that some gas was leaking out. But the next morning, the odor sure got my attention real quick.

 

[sailingdog]

A three pound bomb means little without knowing what explosive compound you talking about. A three pound bomb of black powder is a very different beast than a three pound bomb packed with semtex or cyclonite...

But you're right about 1 lb. of propane mixed with 10 lbs. of air plus a spark==>big boom.

A small propane throwaway cylinder can provide enough fuel to mix with a couple of hundred cubic feet of air to make about a three pound bomb. That will be plenty to take a boat apart.

 

[zeehag]

have used camp stoves for years as a stop gap until install of permanent propane stove---they work fine and are ok--just use brains when changing out the small bottles--the hose to large tank is all good also--change them outside-- remember propane is denser than air---will go into bilge--make sure there is a scupper near the changing area. be smart----goood luck...

 

[Ross]

A three pound bomb means little without knowing what explosive compound you talking about. A three pound bomb of black powder is a very different beast than a three pound bomb packed with semtex or cyclonite...

But you're right about 1 lb. of propane mixed with 10 lbs. of air plus a spark==>big boom.

subject for a completely different thread but Black powder has a lot of inerts in it that make it work but don't contribute energy to the bang. One pound of propane plus the oxygen in ten pounds of air equals 3.5 pounds of explosive with no inerts, the nitrogen it the air will slow the reaction some. But I idon't think we would notice.

 

[jibes138]

I'd be concerned about how you plan to install this unit. Sitting on a counter runs the risk of it falling off if hit by a large wake while under way. If the burners stay lit when tilted you could set the whole boat on fire. I too have seen a boat burn to the waterline and have witnessed power boats blow up from gasoline vapor accumulation. In short plastic is flammable and the fumes are highly toxic. Why not just get a two burner Origo and use alcohol? Just as convenient and you won't have all those little green canisters to throw away. I had an Origo for many years and would buy one again in a heartbeat. It is so simple almost nothing can go wrong, and you can get gimbles for it to install it. I see Defender has a competing model now for a little less money, no idea about quality however. I currently have a propane stove/oven and am really thinking about converting to an Origo unit. With 25 years under the keel all this stuff is due for an upgrade, things like the solenoid valve, hoses, etc. I have never used the oven and it has no sign of ever having been used. nice place to store pans. I did try to light it once and couldn't so I never pursued it further. I didn't smell gas so I think the valve is inoperable to the oven burner. Time for a new stove I guess but at 1200 bucks or so a nice two burner ORigo sounds like a great alternative then add a microwave below it.