Newby needs mast stepping help!

[keljohnso]

So I've built a gin pole out of a 1 5/8 fence post. The problem I'm having is the mast wants to swing from side to side. I have read the following from the manual.

When trailering your boat, always try to undo as little rigging as possible. It is necessary only to undo the two forward lower shrouds and the forestay before lowering the mast.
1. Before raising mast, make sure halyards are neatly tied down and that they are on proper sides of the spreaders. You should never attempt to raise the mast unless the upper shrouds (those that pass over the spreaders and the aft lower shrouds are attached to the deck fittings and the turnbuckles well "started" into their barrels. The turnbuckles must not be completely tightened, however, because slack is needed in the shrouds to enable the mast to be fully raised. The backstay should be attached to the transom chainplate. The upper shrouds, aft lower shrouds, and backstay will keep the mast from falling over when it's raised, therefore, all of these must be attached to the chainplates before the mast is raised.


So I dont know the names of all the shrouds and such yet, but can someone tell me which of these line I need to connect BEFORE I raise the mast to keep the mast from swinging?

Also, what are the numbered shrouds called?

(pic provided isn't my boat)

 

[Gene Neill]

1) forward lowers
2)uppers
3)aft lowers

I only detach the forward lowers and the forestay. I don't loosen the others at all.

 

[Chief RA]

Do what the Dawg says and tie lines to the top of your gin pole. secure one line to the port middle shroud base and another to stbd middle shroud base so it won't sway from side to side. Chief

 

[CCrane2299]

Since they answered, I'll ask... What has been done with your windows. I like 'em!

 

[topcat0399]

None of those pictured lines or shrouds on your boat will keep your mast from swaying from side to side during raising - none of them will be taunt until the mast is all the way up. Its because the mast step is on the cabin top and your shrouds go all the way down to the deck having a different pivot point.

You have to rig baby stays to the mast itself to keep it steady during the transition.

There are lots of ways to rig baby stays that stay taunt the entire time the mast is in transition.

Stays on the gin pole to keep that from swaying is a different subject and there are ways to do that to if needed.

FWIW - the only rigging we unhook on our boat when trailing is the forestay, the mast foot, and the boom removed. Everything else stays in place. Works great.

 

[keljohnso]

Since they answered, I'll ask... What has been done with your windows. I like 'em!

I dont know, thats not mine.

 

[keljohnso]

None of those pictured lines or shrouds on your boat will keep your mast from swaying from side to side during raising - none of them will be taunt until the mast is all the way up. Its because the mast step is on the cabin top and your shrouds go all the way down to the deck having a different pivot point.

You have to rig baby stays to the mast itself to keep it steady during the transition.

There are lots of ways to rig baby stays that stay taunt the entire time the mast is in transition.

Stays on the gin pole to keep that from swaying is a different subject and there are ways to do that to if needed.

FWIW - the only rigging we unhook on our boat when trailing is the forestay, the mast foot, and the boom removed. Everything else stays in place. Works great.

Wheres a good place to connect the baby stays on the deck?

 

[Chief RA]

There isn't a good place to secure baby stays. Thats why I said secure the ginpole stays to the base of the upper shrouds. Try the same for baby stays, but with the gin pole stays you should be fine. Your mast should not be that big. (not like mine!) Chief

 

[topcat0399]

Chief is right - no good place to hook temporary stays on that boat. On our boat we connect a harness for the stays to deck cleats and fair-leads that the pictured boat totally lacks.

If that were my boat I would be looking at the forward fittings of those handrails to connect to since they are about in line and at approximately the same height as the mast foot. If they are not strong enough I would make them so. Barring that I might even attach new fittings through the cabin roof for just this purpose.

We don't use stays on our gin pole - just on the mast; haven't really needed them. Once the gin pole is loaded up it pretty much stays put side to side.

I would be interested in seeing a photo of the method Chief is talking about.

 

[Chief RA]

topcat: no pictures but it is simple. Just secure 2 lines to top of gin pole and tie off on the outside chainplates or what you may have to tie to. Keeps gin pole from shifting from side to side. Chief

 

[ShotgunSlim]

I always connect my main sheet block and tackle from the fore stay anchor point to the gin pole and lead the rope back to the cabin top. With my mast in the stern crutch and the crutch raised to the highest position, I simply stand on the cabin top with the mast snugged up on my right shoulder/neck area and pull the rope coming from the main sheet while easing forward on the cabin top to keep the mast in control. I can stop the raising process at any time with the rope cleat on the main sheet to clear a shroud snag but if I lay them out right before raising the mast, it's rarely a problem. Unfortunately, I don't get to sail with others much so the majority of my water time is solo trailer sailing and this process is what has worked for me. It helps immensely if you have a hank on jib and don't have all the extra weight of a furling head sail.

 

[keljohnso]

This is my boat, the other was something I found to add the text to. I dont have a good shot of the sides yet.

 

[topcat0399]

topcat: no pictures but it is simple. Just secure 2 lines to top of gin pole and tie off on the outside chainplates or what you may have to tie to. Keeps gin pole from shifting from side to side. Chief

Chief; the OP's stated problem is with staying the mast - not the gin pole.
Some people stay their gin pole and some, like us, don't.

Our gin pole base attaches to the tabernacle so once the pole is loaded up it doesn't really sway side to side.

ymmv

 

[justsomeguy]

I position my boat with the prevailing wind coming over the port side, then as I crank the winch, grab ahold of the port lower shroud to balance the possible sway against the breeze.

Not too difficult without baby stays.

 

[topcat0399]

This is my boat, the other was something I found to add the text to. I don't have a good shot of the sides yet.

Now that's a boat of a different color.

Your boat has side deck cleats near the front of the cabin on the side decks.
Those are good attachment points for one leg of a baby stay harness.
Our harnesses are like inverted V's when attached and then the baby stays attach to those inverted V's. I don't see a good place to hook a rear leg for an inverted V on your boat.

The inverted V makes it possible to raise a baby stay attachment/pivot point up to the level of the mast foot. This will allow baby stays to stay tight while the mast is being raised and lowered.

Attached is a diagram showing how it might be done - but there are lots of ways to skin a baby stay...

 

[CaptDon01]

I believe Catalina Yachts has figured this out years ago. We had the factory mast raising system on our Capri-18, and we have the factory mast raising system on our C-22 MK-II. The Capri-18 only required you to disconnect the forestay, however, the C-22 has forward and aft lowerers so the forestay and the forward lowers need to be disconnected. One nice thing on the MK-II's, they all left the factory with the basic foundation for their mast raising system. The mast has a fitting installed for a "T" to slip in to secure the top of the baby stays into the mast. The bottom of the baby stays has a pelican hook, just like those used on the life lines. They fasten to an eye-strap on top of the turning blocks to route the halyards back to the cockpit. This way, no additional holes are required. Now as the photo shows, one baby stay has red tape to identify if as the port side. They require some adjustment to reach a happy medium so they are tight enough to hold the mast from falling too far over and damaging the mast stepping plate, but loose enough so you don't pull the turning blocks out of the cabin top. It's not a perfect world and the lengths are different due to multiple reasons. If you look closely in the photos, you can see the eye strap on top of the turning block. I often use them to secure the halyards to while on the hook or in the slip. The gin-pole on the MK-II versions slides into a hole at the bottom of the mast. The beauty of the system is it's simple to install, no tools required, and it's been engineered so there is no guess work. I'm going to duplicate the same system on our "New Design" C-22 also. The gin pole also uses a cam cleat on the lower fiddle block so if something hangs up while raising the mast, I can secure the mast in that position and correct the problem before continuing to raise the mast. It makes it a safe and easy one person job, and I've even rigged and de-rigged the boat with only one arm,(I had torn some tendons loose in my right shoulder from a bicycle accident).

Don

 

[keljohnso]

Now that's a boat of a different color.

Your boat has side deck cleats near the front of the cabin on the side decks.
Those are good attachment points for one leg of a baby stay harness.
Our harnesses are like inverted V's when attached and then the baby stays attach to those inverted V's. I don't see a good place to hook a rear leg for an inverted V on your boat.

The inverted V makes it possible to raise a baby stay attachment/pivot point up to the level of the mast foot. This will allow baby stays to stay tight while the mast is being raised and lowered.

Attached is a diagram showing how it might be done - but there are lots of ways to skin a baby stay...

So as long as the area circled in yellow lines up with the pivot point of the mast, things should be good, right?

 

[keljohnso]

Now that's a boat of a different color.

Your boat has side deck cleats near the front of the cabin on the side decks.
Those are good attachment points for one leg of a baby stay harness.
Our harnesses are like inverted V's when attached and then the baby stays attach to those inverted V's. I don't see a good place to hook a rear leg for an inverted V on your boat.

The inverted V makes it possible to raise a baby stay attachment/pivot point up to the level of the mast foot. This will allow baby stays to stay tight while the mast is being raised and lowered.

Attached is a diagram showing how it might be done - but there are lots of ways to skin a baby stay...

Okay, like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AQ-jmoMOFg
And the baby stays come off once the mast is up right?

 

[topcat0399]

So as long as the area circled in yellow lines up with the pivot point of the mast, things should be good, right?

To answer your question - YES.

The blue line on the diagram indicates such.

We remove all harness and baby stays immediately after use -
it only takes a moment or two.

I can't watch the you tube video - our internet connection and available bandwidth and data caps makes it so not worth it to even try.

ps:

It takes a little doing to get the harness just right due to stretch - but once they are right; they are good forever unless you change attachment points.

Some people make harness's out of lumber or metal that do the same thing.
I prefer line for easy storage and handling. We carry our gin pole on the boat at all times and can use it while afloat.

pss:

Some folks even go as far as putting fittings on the cabin roof out from the mast and rig permanent (or semi-permanent) baby stays out of stainless cable and leave them on while sailing. We might do this someday.

Use your imagination - as long as you understand the concept the sky is the limit with how it can be done.

 

[keljohnso]

Man, thanks a bunch!

What do you attach the baby stay to on the mast? Is it just a regular cleat?