Newbie buying first sailboat, will need a head

[Slingerland]

Good evening, all! I am looking to buy my first sailboat, and have narrowed my choices down to three boats: two C-25s and a C-22. One of the C-25s has a head plumbed in with a holding tank, the other C-25 and the C-22 does not. BUT... the C-25 with the built-in head is using original gear, and I'm not sure about how well maintained it is. The other two boats are in better shape... but need a head.

For a lot of reasons, my wife will not agree to a hand-carried porta-pottie. She requires... note the word "requires" here... a pumpable head. But other sailboat owners have been telling me about plumbing they've seen in other boats.

Toilets such as this: an all-in-one (toiled and holding tank) that draws from the fresh water tank, and is installed with a cut-out through the hull to run a pump-out tube. http://www.sealandsanitation.com/711-M28 OM 3-02.pdf

But... I haven't seen these myself, all I hear are second-hand stories. I ordered Ms. Hall's book earlier this afternoon, but I'd like to get a head start (yes, pun intended.)

So... based on the following criteria, is there any good equipment out there?

1) Must be pumpable through the hull. Hole-cutting in the deck is allowed .
2) Can draw from the fresh water tank, or from it's own reservoir. If needed, I'll install an electric pump on the water line. Or if the head itself is electric, that's fine.
3) Prefer not to use a separate holding tank. One thing I like about the item I linked to above, in that the bowl and seat sits on its own holding tank.

Thanks!

Howard Warren
Little Rock, AR

 

[Slingerland]

Forgot to add... for the immediate future I will only be using this boat on a local lake, no plans to trailer it.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

What you seem to be describing...

Is an "MSD" portapotty..."MSD" means it's designed to be permanently installed and fitted for pumpout. It does NOT connect to the fresh water system, though. I'd go with a 5-6 gal model...SeaLand 765 MSD or Thetford 365 MSD ...the online store on this site has both: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.htm?group=481&cat=3703

They also have the Trident 101 or 102 saniitation hose you'll need for the pumpout hose, the deck pumpoutout fitting and and the Trident #148 hose you'll need for the tank vent.

The SeaLand 711 M28 you refer to is very nice self-contained system that DOES connect to the onboard fresh water system...but I don't think a tank with a 20" x 21" footprint will fit in a 25' sailboat! The two MSD potties I referenced above will...they hold about 60 flushes...and meet all your other criteria. You'll be happy with either one.

 

[pgiorda]

Our wifes must be related. I purchased my fisrt boat, an O'Day 272, last year and my wife had the same requirement for a pump out head. I looked at the model you referenced but chose the sealand 975 msd, http://www.sealandtechnology.com/productpages.asp?pid=94.

Reasoning:
1) The model you referenced can only be pumped and I was concerned about both the height of the seat and dimensions of the base.
2) The 975MSD can be pumped, Yes, I cut 2 holes. ! for pumpout and the second for the air vent.
3) Dimensions of base were very similar to existing porta-potty.
4) No need to run fresh water supply or pump. Fresh water Reservoir is self contaied.
5) Option to remove waste holding tank to dump.

Hopo that helps

 

[Slingerland]

Thank you very much! Both options look good, and the prices are reasonable as well.

Peggie, I see you're in Little Rock? You may know the owners of some of the boats I'm looking at. Would you mind a private email to "gossip"? You might be able to warn me away from a costly mistake. You can reach me at slingerland79@yahoo.com if you don't mind.

Thanks!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Watch email for incoming...

 

[Dave Meissner]

Hi all,

I have a related question. I already have a Dometic model 974. It looks like the only thing I need to make this a 974MSD is the mounting clips and the MSD fitting pipes, correct?

Can I buy these parts somewhere?

Also, a related question, how to they pump out a holding tank? Vacuum?

Dave

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You'd need a bit more than that...

Hi all, I have a related question. I already have a Dometic model 974. It looks like the only thing I need to make this a 974MSD is the mounting clips and the MSD fitting pipes, correct?

No...Mounting hardware is included with portable tanks...they keep the potty from sliding all over the place...so you should already have those unless you tossed 'em. But you'd also need hose--1.5" for pumpout and a smaller size for the vent, a deck pumpout fitting and a vent thru-hull. There aren't any hose fittings in your portable tank, so you'd have to drill the holes and install those (both would have to go into the top of the tank, which would also require a pickup tube inside the tank). And some hose clamps.

Can I buy these parts somewhere?

You can buy all of it, including the necessary hole saws at hardware and boat stores, but it would make a LOT more sense to just replace the portable with an MSD. If your portable only holds 2-3 gallons, upgrade to a 5-6 gal. You'd still need the hoses, hose clamps, deck pumpout fitting and the vent thru hull, but that's all.

Also, a related question, how to they pump out a holding tank? Vacuum?

Vacuum is a good description for a pumpout. It has a hose with a fitting on the end of it that connects to the deck pumpout fitting on your boat and sucks the waste out. You MAY have to keep your own connector fitting aboard to use. Drop by the pumpout at your marina to see how it works.

 

[Dave Meissner]

Thanks Peggy! I must have tossed the clips, I don't remember seeing them. If Dometic won't sell the the correct hardware, I'll just buy the complete package.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

They don't sell the mod hardware...

You COULD just buy a replacement tank for it, but you can only get that directly from SeaLand, and they'd charge you more than you can buy a whole new MSD potty at discount...which is what I recommend you do instead of trying to do the equivalent of reinventing the wheel to your existing potty.

You can check out the entire SeaLand 970 series here http://www.sealandtechnology.com/productpages.asp?pid=94 Check out the prices of the SeaLand and the Thetford MSD potties at the online store on this site sbo.com plumbing You'll have a hard time finding either one at a better price. The sbo.com store is also the place to buy the hose other stuff you need. Go with Trident 101 for the pumpout hose, #148 for the vent line.

When you shop here you support this site.

 

[DavidWms]

Sorta newbie, at least re: saltwater boats

Peggie,

I've had a couple of sailboat before but only portapottis. Just looked at your book table of contents. Does it cover converting a saltwater boat to fresh water? I'm looking at a saltwater 30 foot sailboat for moving to a lake (and like Howard, I'm also in Little Rock!) This is an 80's model quality boat (Ericson), although I have not yet eyballed it myself but will shortly. I had a surveyor do a preliminary walkaround and he noted: "The waste overboard discharge seacock was frozen." Assuming it has no holding tank, what the scope and expense range of adding a holding tank? Is a macerator pump essential? A quick price check showed several $100 for one.

David

 

[TomatoDave]

Logged in now

Peggie,
Had lost my login so original was as guest. Could you please respond to this one, so I'll be notified? Thanks

David

Peggie,

I've had a couple of sailboat before but only portapottis. Just looked at your book table of contents. Does it cover converting a saltwater boat to fresh water? I'm looking at a saltwater 30 foot sailboat for moving to a lake (and like Howard, I'm also in Little Rock!) This is an 80's model quality boat (Ericson), although I have not yet eyballed it myself but will shortly. I had a surveyor do a preliminary walkaround and he noted: "The waste overboard discharge seacock was frozen." Assuming it has no holding tank, what the scope and expense range of adding a holding tank? Is a macerator pump essential? A quick price check showed several $100 for one.

David

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Welcome back!

Just looked at your book table of contents. Does it cover converting a saltwater boat to fresh water? I'm looking at a saltwater 30 foot sailboat for moving to a lake...

There's nothing to convert...the toilet that pulled in sea water will just start pulling in lake water.

... (and like Howard, I'm also in Little Rock!)

Howard and I had fun shopping...I'll be glad to help you get your boat sorted out. If you'd like for me to do that, send me an email (to do that click on my name at the left of this post and follow directions there) and I'll give you my phone number.

This is an 80's model quality boat (Ericson), although I have not yet eyballed it myself but will shortly. I had a surveyor do a preliminary walkaround and he noted: "The waste overboard discharge seacock was frozen."

I hope it's frozen the closed position, 'cuz if you're gonna put the boat on inland water, you won't need that thru-hull 'cuz you can't flush a toilet directly overboard or dump a tank. It remains to be seen whether that seacock is salvageable.

Assuming it has no holding tank, what the scope and expense range of adding a holding tank?

Adding a tank isn't that expensive...shouldn't run you much more than about $300 if you do the work yourself. I'll help you spec it out. Depending upon the make/model/age of your toilet, it'll be a good idea to add another $250 for a new one if it's advisable to replace it.

Is a macerator pump essential? A quick price check showed several $100 for one.

Not only NOT essential, but you can't use one at at all. It's illegal to flush a toilet directly overboard or dump a tank in any inland waters or even any coastal waters within 3 miles of nearest point on the whole US coastline.

 

[TomatoDave]

Peggie, sending my email now.

I understand we can't discharge in lakes but apparently misunderstood macerator. I thought they were a good idea in holding tank to make pump out easier.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Nope...macerator pumps are used only to dump the tank...it would interfere with pumpout.