Hi Peggie, I have spent most of the day reading your articles and postings on The Head Mistress forum (plus searching the archives). This is a great service for all boaters!!! My wife and I coastal cruise our 1985 Endeavour 35 sloop along the South Texas Gulf Coast. She has the original manual toilet, 15 gallon holding tank, and Y-valve up-stream of the tank for direct discharge. Because the holding tank has a 3" long split in a top seam, the hoses are old and the Groco toilet has seen better days, we are planning to completely replace the entire system with new components. At this time, I am considering the installation of an electric macerator toilet and a Lectra/San MC (no Type I discharge problems in our area of Texas, yet) using Sealand OdorSafe hose and a Groco bronze vented loop. For your information, the E35 has a large head compartment and good space under the port side v-berth which is immediately adjacent to the toilet location. Also, we have very good electric power resources on board (840 amp-hours). Reliability and ease of use are our two main criteria (because I now know how to control odors from your articles). Cost is a consideration, but it is in a distant third place. If this were YOUR boat... 1) Would you choose a Raritan or Jabsco toilet, and which model? 2) Would you use a fresh water flush even though this would require the addition of a salt feed system to the Lectra/San? 3) Would you install a holding tank in addition to the MSD I to handle potential NDZ problems and/or for a backup? 4) With a holding tank, would you add a manual pump for overboard discharge of the holding tank in an "emergency", regulations permitting? 5) If you installed a holding tank, would you also install a level indicator/monitoring system? If so, what brand and model? Thanks in advance, Roy Canon
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
If this were my boat...
1) Would you choose a Raritan or Jabsco toilet, and which model? Definitely Raritan over Jabsco. A little more expensive, but a LOT more durable. The SeaEra if you want to keep the cost down...the Atlantes if you have the room in the head AND your budget and want all the comfort of home. 2) Would you use a fresh water flush even though this would require the addition of a salt feed system to the Lectra/San? Yes..for several reasons: no sea water odors, lower power consumption, less flush water consumption, and it's a LOT quieter. And btw, the only salt feed tank you should consider is the one that loads with 20 lbs of rock salt. However, you might also consider installing Raritan's "SeaFresh" system...that allows you to choose at will between salt water flush and fresh water flush, just by operating a switch. Flush with salt water at sea where the water is cleaner and fresh water is at a premium...switch to fresh in port where fresh water is plentiful to rinse the salt water out of the system and keep dirty harbor water out of it. 3) Would you install a holding tank in addition to the MSD I to handle potential NDZ problems and/or for a backup? That would depend upon where I plan to cruise. You're in the Gulf...the waters off the FL Keys have been recently declared a marine sanctuary and a NDZ...Destin is a NDZ... So if you plan to spend any time in FL waters, you'll need one. But if your cruising grounds are Mexico and points south, you won't need one. However, all things considered, I think I'd install a small one--10-12 gallons--in any case. You're not likely to need it as a backup to the L/S...but it's easier to install one while doing the refit than it is to go back and put one in later. 4) With a holding tank, would you add a manual pump for overboard discharge of the holding tank in an "emergency", regulations permitting? Definitely...and, for as little use as it's likely to get dumping a holding tank, I'd install it as manual emergency bilge pump that can double as a holding tank dumper. 5) If you installed a holding tank, would you also install a level indicator/monitoring system? If so, what brand and model? I would not install a separate gauge just for my holding tank on a boat that will rarely, if ever, use the tank. What I would install is a system that can combine my fuel tank(s), water tank(s) AND the holding tank onto a single display panell...the holding tank would be just one more tank in the system. That system is the Snake River Electronics system. Check it out on their website at http://www.snake-river.org. Hands down, the best tank monitoring system on the planet--and for less $$ than most single tank systems that do more than just let you know when it's full.
1) Would you choose a Raritan or Jabsco toilet, and which model? Definitely Raritan over Jabsco. A little more expensive, but a LOT more durable. The SeaEra if you want to keep the cost down...the Atlantes if you have the room in the head AND your budget and want all the comfort of home. 2) Would you use a fresh water flush even though this would require the addition of a salt feed system to the Lectra/San? Yes..for several reasons: no sea water odors, lower power consumption, less flush water consumption, and it's a LOT quieter. And btw, the only salt feed tank you should consider is the one that loads with 20 lbs of rock salt. However, you might also consider installing Raritan's "SeaFresh" system...that allows you to choose at will between salt water flush and fresh water flush, just by operating a switch. Flush with salt water at sea where the water is cleaner and fresh water is at a premium...switch to fresh in port where fresh water is plentiful to rinse the salt water out of the system and keep dirty harbor water out of it. 3) Would you install a holding tank in addition to the MSD I to handle potential NDZ problems and/or for a backup? That would depend upon where I plan to cruise. You're in the Gulf...the waters off the FL Keys have been recently declared a marine sanctuary and a NDZ...Destin is a NDZ... So if you plan to spend any time in FL waters, you'll need one. But if your cruising grounds are Mexico and points south, you won't need one. However, all things considered, I think I'd install a small one--10-12 gallons--in any case. You're not likely to need it as a backup to the L/S...but it's easier to install one while doing the refit than it is to go back and put one in later. 4) With a holding tank, would you add a manual pump for overboard discharge of the holding tank in an "emergency", regulations permitting? Definitely...and, for as little use as it's likely to get dumping a holding tank, I'd install it as manual emergency bilge pump that can double as a holding tank dumper. 5) If you installed a holding tank, would you also install a level indicator/monitoring system? If so, what brand and model? I would not install a separate gauge just for my holding tank on a boat that will rarely, if ever, use the tank. What I would install is a system that can combine my fuel tank(s), water tank(s) AND the holding tank onto a single display panell...the holding tank would be just one more tank in the system. That system is the Snake River Electronics system. Check it out on their website at http://www.snake-river.org. Hands down, the best tank monitoring system on the planet--and for less $$ than most single tank systems that do more than just let you know when it's full.
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Larry Templeton
Caution re Accugage wiring
Be aware that you must connect the Accugage sensors to the control head with 3 wires. That's one more wire than Hunter installed when it was using the WEMA gages. I'd recommend you check to see if you can run the 3rd wire without totally disassembling your boat before investing in the system.
Be aware that you must connect the Accugage sensors to the control head with 3 wires. That's one more wire than Hunter installed when it was using the WEMA gages. I'd recommend you check to see if you can run the 3rd wire without totally disassembling your boat before investing in the system.
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Dennis Ferriello
Third Wire
On the third wire. You can connect all ground wires below and run just one ground wire to the panel. So, if you have 5 tanks you would only have to run one additional wire to the panel as the ground. We have sold many units to the after market and I know it might be hard in some cases but it is well worth it in the end. Also what I was thinking if you pulled one wire out and attached 2 wires two it while pulling the wire you would have the extra wire you need. Again, I am not saying this is easy but the outcome has to be worth it. Dennis Ferriello Snake River Electronics
On the third wire. You can connect all ground wires below and run just one ground wire to the panel. So, if you have 5 tanks you would only have to run one additional wire to the panel as the ground. We have sold many units to the after market and I know it might be hard in some cases but it is well worth it in the end. Also what I was thinking if you pulled one wire out and attached 2 wires two it while pulling the wire you would have the extra wire you need. Again, I am not saying this is easy but the outcome has to be worth it. Dennis Ferriello Snake River Electronics
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John Newman
Third Wire
I installed an Acugage on my boat. It was a little hard to run the extra wire, but believe me it was well worth it. For all the problems I had with the WEMA unit it was a piece of cake to put the extra wire and not have all the problems I had before. I would have gone through 10 times the trouble to run the wire just to have something that works. The acucucge works perfect. Thanks Snake River
I installed an Acugage on my boat. It was a little hard to run the extra wire, but believe me it was well worth it. For all the problems I had with the WEMA unit it was a piece of cake to put the extra wire and not have all the problems I had before. I would have gone through 10 times the trouble to run the wire just to have something that works. The acucucge works perfect. Thanks Snake River
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Roy Canon
Thanks for the responses...
Thanks Peggie, Larry, Dennis and John! Sorry for my delayed reply, but business has disrupted my priorities for the last two days... Peggie, I really appreciate your specific answers and I am planning to follow all of them, including the SeaFresh option. However, I do have one concern over the complexity of the treatment/discharge sytem: To handle the Lectra/San, holding tank backup, manual pump for both H/T and bilge and deck pump-out, the discharge system will require four Y-valves. Does this seem excessive? Also, do you consider the West Marine recommendations of the Henderson Manual Waste Pump and the Whale Diverter valves to be the best available for my purpose? Thanks again, Roy
Thanks Peggie, Larry, Dennis and John! Sorry for my delayed reply, but business has disrupted my priorities for the last two days... Peggie, I really appreciate your specific answers and I am planning to follow all of them, including the SeaFresh option. However, I do have one concern over the complexity of the treatment/discharge sytem: To handle the Lectra/San, holding tank backup, manual pump for both H/T and bilge and deck pump-out, the discharge system will require four Y-valves. Does this seem excessive? Also, do you consider the West Marine recommendations of the Henderson Manual Waste Pump and the Whale Diverter valves to be the best available for my purpose? Thanks again, Roy
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
You shouldn't need but 2 y-valves, Roy...
One in the toilet discharge line that provides a choice between going overboard through the Lectra/San or into the tank (put it ahead of the L/S, not after it)...and one in the tank discharge line that allows a choice between pumpout or dumpout. Ok...maybe a third--to switch the pump between the tank and the bilge. But I THINK the Henderson pump has a built in choice that would eliminate that one (and yes, I agree that the Henderson pump and Whale y-valves the best choice). You do not need one to switch between going directly overboard or through the lectra/San ...at sea beyond 3 miles, you can go through the L/S without running it except when solids go into it if you don't put toilet paper through it except with solids.
One in the toilet discharge line that provides a choice between going overboard through the Lectra/San or into the tank (put it ahead of the L/S, not after it)...and one in the tank discharge line that allows a choice between pumpout or dumpout. Ok...maybe a third--to switch the pump between the tank and the bilge. But I THINK the Henderson pump has a built in choice that would eliminate that one (and yes, I agree that the Henderson pump and Whale y-valves the best choice). You do not need one to switch between going directly overboard or through the lectra/San ...at sea beyond 3 miles, you can go through the L/S without running it except when solids go into it if you don't put toilet paper through it except with solids.
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Roy Canon
Peggie, I agree, but...
How about one prior to the discharge through-hull to select the source between the L/S and the manual pump from the holding tank? I hope you are correct about the Henderson pump taking care of one of the valves...
How about one prior to the discharge through-hull to select the source between the L/S and the manual pump from the holding tank? I hope you are correct about the Henderson pump taking care of one of the valves...
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
You don't need one there, Roy
You'll keep the one in the tank discharge line turned toward pumpout except when you're actually dumping the tank, so there won't be anything that line. The discharge from the L/S isn't gonna flow uphill to the pump, it'll go out the thru-hull...you'll have a vented loop in between the L/S and the thru-hull that'll prevent the tank contents from going into the L/S when you dump the tank. So all you need there is a tee or wye fitting. It's really VERY straightforward and relatively simple, so don't over-engineer it.
You'll keep the one in the tank discharge line turned toward pumpout except when you're actually dumping the tank, so there won't be anything that line. The discharge from the L/S isn't gonna flow uphill to the pump, it'll go out the thru-hull...you'll have a vented loop in between the L/S and the thru-hull that'll prevent the tank contents from going into the L/S when you dump the tank. So all you need there is a tee or wye fitting. It's really VERY straightforward and relatively simple, so don't over-engineer it.
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