New to sailing and wanting to take classes, ASA or

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Maule

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Feb 3, 2006
4
- - North Carolina
New to sailing and wanting to take classes, ASA or US Sailing? Don't want to take, and pay, for one only to find out I should have taken the other. Or does it matter? Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated.
 
M

mortyd

classes

doesn't matter much just for basic sailing, but do - do - take lessons. then sail as much as you can.
 
Jun 4, 2004
12
- - Rock Hall, MD
I did ASA through advanced at facilities on SF Bay

Both ASA and USSailing are very good. ASA seems to have more facilities. Both recognized globally and validates training. The important differentiation is the school, training vessels used, and instructor quality. Pick two or three in your area and visit. Good luck and Cheers!
 
May 17, 2004
2,110
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Instruction

Maule: No matter what sport you participate in (golf, tennis, kicking a soccer ball or hitting a baseball)a good instructor can make the learning process easier and with that you can start to enjoy the satisfaction you'll get from the sport much sooner. Some folks will tell you that it is possable to learn to sail by yourself. Maybe for a very small minority but most new sailors will have a tough time of it. As a case in point, any new sailor should try digesting the post I just wrote on adjusting fairleads to see how easy sailing for a beginner ISN"T. Based on my own experience, I do have a few suggestions for you and they involve pre-school preperation and school selection. Pre-school: Before you start your class you should familiarize yourself with and know the following terms COLD - draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack. Nothing about sail trim will ever make any sense unless you understand those terms. Next you should become familiar with ALL the sail trim controls for the main and jib. Knowing those 2 elements will put you miles ahead of most of your classmates. You can look all that stuff up yourself or save yourself a considerable amount of time by buying my book "The Sail Trim Users Guide" as I've already done the research for you. It all depends on what your time is worth. School selection: When I got back into sailing many years ago and realized I really had no idea what was going on from a sail trim standpoint I started my search for a sailing school in SO Ca. I wanted the toughest school I could find. What I found was most schools are more interested in getting me into charter than teaching me to sail. One school told me after 1/2 day of instruction I'd be qualified to take a 30' boat to Catalina!! Unfortuately, during the investigation process I really did not know what questions to ask about their sailing programs or the teaching and sailing background of their instructors. I eventually, ended up with a school in Newport Beach, Ca. I took every class they offered from beginner to advanced shore. I spent over $800 and can honestly say I barely knew how to sail the boat. I was excellent at flaking sail, backing the boat and working the head but I had no idea what the wind was doing to the sails or how any of the sail trim controls really worked. It wasn't because I'm stupid. It was because of the way the material was presented. The instuctor would talk about the A force wind on one side of the sail and the B force on the other. I had no idea what in hell he was talking about. When you find a school you think you'll like, ask to talk to an instructor and ask to sit in on a class. If they decline your request, walk out the door. Since the main reason for going to a sailing school is to learn how to sail, ask the instuctor what and how he teaches the class. If you asked me that question, this is what I would tell you and it would take me about as long as it is going to take you to read the following. First I'd teach you about draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack. Then I would go over every sail trim control for the main and jib and explain what each does to the above 4 things when you push and pull it. Next, I'd go over the correct setting for each point of sail and wind condition. I'd also teach you a number of step by step proceedures used to set your main and jib. I'd cover this stuff in class first and then go over it again in deatail on the water where you would actually see it happen. Hopefully, I've given you some food for thought. Good luck in your search for a school. Welcome to sailing and I hope it brings you as much fun and joy as it has to me.
 
M

mortyd

classes

i could not disagree with the other post more, except that it states the improtance of lessons. i think learning all the terms is an imtimdating waste of time and will kill your fun, which is what you probabaly want in the first place. if you learn to sail a sunfish correctly you will have learned most of what you will ever need to know to sail anythings else. getting snowed in details before you have ever tacked or jibed a boat is very coounterproductive in my humble opinion. they do not teach afterburner technique or snap rolls in primary flight school. get wet and go fast first!
 
M

mortyd

classes

and, don, i think this is the first time i have even questioned something you have said about sailing. i love your book and have your charts mounted on my bulkhead, but this time i think you are putting lesson two in front of lesson one. i bet if you taught a newbie to sail a sunfish - just one sail, one sheet, one halyard, one daggerboard - he'd be a better sailor than eighty per cent of them out there already, and addicted.
 
B

Bob Cassel

Start cheap, local programs

I'd recommend you look at your local, or nearby, community recreation programs such as the YMCA, Red Cross or the Parks and Recreation Department. You can get lots of sailing experiance in a 12' Holder, 14' Byte or similar boat. The cost there will be really cheap and you can get the feeling of how the wind blows, what the sail trim does and how fast things react. Then look for a non-profit sailing school for intermediate and keel boats. This will give you experiance on systems, mechanics, operating under power, etc. I took lessons at a city P&R program to start, then bought a boat and put it to work, then took US Sailing 34' skipper program. I'm now teaching for a non-profit program on the SF Bay. We take folks from 16.5 dinghies to 30' Keel boats in about four programs covering ten or twelve days worth of sailing. Most folks spread this out over a couple of years. I guess my point is don't commit to US Sailing or ASA, look at the boats, the instructors, chat with the students as they leave classes after a day on the boats. Then decide what type of sailing you are interested in: There is a big difference in what I describe as the three sailing mentalities: Racers, cruisers and passage makers. Make sure your instructor reflects the type of sailor you intend to be. Trying to learn from racer mentality when you are a cruiser philosophy will make things very difficult. When looking over the boats, check how well they are maintained, how well organized the school..... My two cents, plus change.
 
Jun 2, 2004
3,501
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
I'll Second the Sunfish Idea

You could buy a Sunfish learn more, have more fun, and still have the boat rather than pay for lessons and then only have a book and a credit card receipt to show for it.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Don, there are kids that learn to sail

optimist dinghies and they know nothing of the terms that you hold necessary. All of these terms will be needed as the student gains skill but they are not essential to learning to sail. There are people that have sailed for years and can get much pleasure from sailing, have never had the desire to race and see no purpose in it. There are other people that would be overwhelmingly frustrated if they happened to be sharing a Saturday afternoon sail with them. I think that we can make the whole sport of sailing so complex that many people will just give up the idea completely. We can all find our fun in different ways. Apparently for you it requires unwavering attention to sail trim and steering an accurate course. This is a fine way for you but it may not be the best for everyone.
 

abe

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Jan 2, 2007
736
- - channel islands
I agree with Don... do it right

Be prepared, read ahead, get familiarized with terminology. That way when you sit in class g and you have more time to ask more important and intelligent questions. Nothing wrong with preperation before the lessons, makes things easier in the long run. Also, you won't looks silly asking for that "green line over there attached to the thingy round stuff".
 
M

mortyd

sailing school

abe, nobody's saying to do it wrong, just questioning where the horse is and where the cart is. before i bought my boat, i enrolled my wife in an accredited sailing course, but not for her to learn to sail but just to see if she liked doing it. at the end of the course some of the students had a sense of accomplishment and some did not, but not one, except my wife, had any sense that it was fun. now they could tell a halyard from a winch from a cleat, but few wanted to any more. the gentleman who asked the question probably doesn't want to be pressed into a midshipman's gang, he wants to learn how to sail, and like riding a bike, the first few feet are the most important of your life. even on the pequod or bounty, it was fun most of the time
 
May 17, 2004
2,110
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Kids and sailing

Ross: I'm not sure what your talking about. In case you missed it, this is a sail trim forum and the emphasis is towards adults not kids Most of the folks that visit this forum spent a lot of money on their sail boat and they want to know how to sail it. I guess I could use your method and tell them just jump on the boat and go for it. In any sport there are terms that go with it. It is how sailors (golfer, pilots etc)communicate. All I'm asking a guy to do is learn 4 terms. Where are you getting this unwavering attention to sail trim from and racing? Folks can sail their boats anyway they want. It only takes a little effort to get the most out of the boat. I only preach to the choir that wants to learn sail trim. To those that just want to hoist the main and roll out the jib I just say be happy. Kids pick up sailing very fast and most are very inquisitive. They want to know how everything works. Knowing how it works makes them better sailors. Mortyd, I really don't think an adult has to start with a Sunfish or a sailing dingy. In an effort to get my wife more interested in sailing I bought her a sailing dingy. It was the shortest boat ownership period I've ever had. She used it a couple of times and I sailed it a couple of times but I got bored with it. I sold it after 1 month. I prefer to teach sail trim on a boat that has all the sail trim controls. A number of years ago I pitched my sailing program to a sailing school in Newport Beach, Ca. It was the same school where I took my lessons. What the school owner and myself wanted to do was insert my program about 3/4 of the way through the beginner program. At this point the student has some basic knowledge about what is going on. Unfortunately, the scholl was sold and the new owners would rather charter boats than teach sailing.
 
M

mortyd

sailing school

don, you hit the nail on the head. your words "in order to get my wife more interested in sailing." this is guy who is already interested, and the first thing i said was that's totally important for him to take lessons, be they on a catalina morgan 440 or dinghy. what i said about the sunfish stands; bet you a 'gansett if you spent a few hours on one with this guy he'd be a sailor for life. that does not rule out a j24 or hobie.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Don , if you read again the initial

post will will see that Maule is new to sailing. It doesn't matter if you are 8 years old or 58 years old when you are approaching a new activity you start from the same level of experience. I can teach a person more about sail trim in fifteen minutes aboard a boat than I can drill into them in two days in a dry classroom. After they have been shown how the shape of a sail can be changed then I can discuss the methods of doing it. You enjoy being able to shape the sails for every posible condition but the new sailor is unlikely to recognise that this wind is different from the previous wind. It is not necessary to be able to make a watch to be able to tell time.
 
S

Sandi

Go to school on vacation

I surprised my husband with sailing school for our family vacation. We were new to keel boats, but learned a great deal. We even took my mom - who hadn't sailed before - and we were all hooked. Purchased our first boat 18 months ago. She sails with us now whenever she can hitch a ride. She is a good deck hand, can steer and with some assistance navigate well. We used the Chesapeake Bay Sailing School in Annapolis. Talk to Christie and tell her exactly what you want. Great place to sail, great place for a vacation! They do ASA - we paid one price for the whole family, then only my husband took the ASA tests. Try school for a couple of days just to try it out. We love our 36, but we sailed sunfish, sunflowers, lasers, flying scots for 25 yrs plus before we took the plunge!
 

Maule

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Feb 3, 2006
4
- - North Carolina
classes

I want to thank you all for your input. For a tad more additional information I am currently 45 yrs young. I currently have a boat, which I use inland, but have never been on a sailboat on the water. Not once. I was putting my "goals in life" on paper and my goal is to retire in 10 years and sail the Bahamas. Now, I don't know that it will happen but at this point in time that's my goal. I decided that if that was my goal it might be a pretty intelligent thing to actually get started toward it, hence the sailing school. I am going to take the classes. I gleemed alot from all of your answers and am appreciative of your help. My basic question came from knowing where I hoped to go with sailing and not wanting to start either school, get through a couple courses, only to discover I should have started with the other school. Might be a foolish question, but since I had no clue I asked it. If anyone has taken any courses in VA, NC, SC, GA or FL and would like to recommend a school, that they know will teach me sailing and not try to teach me how to charter their boats, I would also appreciate that. Thanks again for all of your input.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Maule, Our local community college

offers a basic sailing course in their phys. ed. course. About 100 bucks. Some class room, about 2 hours, one night a week of sailing for six weeks. By way of reference I am 67 years and still working in house repair. I spent almost ten years refitting a thirty foot Islander. Before that I fitted a fifteen foot Grumman canoe with out-riggers and a sail, steered with a paddle and Nancy and I had lotsa fun with that, but it didn't have a potty and Nancy is shy. So when we talked about a bigger boat she had some very real requirements. So we found a boat that needed to be rescued and made it the boat that we wanted. We have been sailing Bietzpadlin since 1999. Get some sailing basics books from the library. Get some idea about what we have been talking about here for the last 24 hours. Much of it is arcane, most of it you will read about and then one day the light bulb will come on and you will say "That's what they were talking about". Don't even think that a two week course will teach you what you need. Nancy and I have learned from our mistakes and fears. After six years Nancy knows that wind gusts do not accumulate and the boat isn't going to get knocked flat with one more gust. Enjoy your dreams. We fitted Bietzpadlin as a bule water cruiser but fate has intervened and it won't happen but if the boat is built for the job them the Chesapeake Bay won't defeat us.
 
S

Sanders

I second the vacation suggestion

I'd recommend starting with a basic keelboat class, and going on from there depending on the size boat you expect to end up on. There were several folks from Minnesota in my ASA sailing classes who decided they'd rather be learning with an expert on San Francisco Bay than waiting for the ice to thaw at home. Made for a nice one-week vacation. A couple of them even came back for the subsequent classes. I came back to sailing after years away, and went through ASA classes through bareboat and I'm glad I did. It's scarey to realize I went to the Bahamas 30 years ago without a clue. We were lucky. I am constantly amazed that some boat owners on my dock own $100,000 boats and don't know much about essentials such as docking, prop walk, MOB, tacking and gybing, and not a clue about basic boat safety. It was worth every penny we spent, and is the primary reason we ended up buying a bigger than expected boat, 37 ft, as we were confident we could manage it while we learned even more. There are good ASA schools at St. Pete, Fort Myers, Tampa and Lauderdale. Not a bad way to spend a week in the winter. We are still learning, but I am really thankful for the folks at Tradewinds Sailing Club that I got a good start. Sanders s/v Good News currently beached in Florida
 
Jan 2, 2005
779
Hunter 35.5 Legend Lake Travis-Austin,TX
I agree...

with combining the class with a vacation. ASA or US Sailing really isn't the question, hell, there's a really cool J-Boat sailing class that's more performance oriented. Read the ads in the sail rags and try to pick an area you like that corresponds with your dreams. Blue Water Sailing School in Ft. Lauderdale sounds perfect for what you are talking about. My wife and I took some classes in Ft. Myers area as well as BVI because they most represented the areas we probably would cruise in.
 

OldCat

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Jul 26, 2005
728
Catalina , Nacra 5.8, Laser, Hobie Hawk Wonmop, CO
What are your goals?

Classes are good - for safety, skills and enjoyment. You will have more fun if you are under control & feel better if you know safety procedures - man over board for example. Get classes in the size boat that you want to sail - or that are working up to that size. ASA or US Sailing - it more matters the school and instructor(s) than the certifying body. Just find a school near you that locals recommend, or go somewhere nice for vacation. Sailing school helps a lot for safe enjoyment on the water - it is not just sail trim, also power handling, docking, safety such as reefing, MOB and so on. I like the idea of starting in small boats - that is where I started - any good school is a good step. Again - ASA or USS - it won't matter much which cert set you go for - the particular school and its offerings matching your goals will matter most. [almost] All school beats being a jet skier on the water!
 
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