Just wanted to introduce myself to the forum and say hello. My wife and I are looking to buy a live aboard sailboat in the next few years. Having never actually sailed before, been on them as passengers but never as crew / captain. We are curious what to look for, what size would you recommend, etc. The first thing we plan on doing is getting lessons and buying a Hobie Cat next spring. Thank you in advance for all the help that I am sure this forum will provide.
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If you are getting a Hobie to get some sailing experience, you would be better off getting a 19 -22 foot trailerable monohull sailboat unless you plan on getting a multihull live aboard.
I started on a Hobie, the characteristics of sailing is much different on a monohull and took me a little bit to get the feel of a monohull. Any sailing experience is always good but they do not move through the water and wind the same.
I think I would have been better off starting on a smaller monohull than a Hobie when learning to sail. Your mileage may vary.
Plus you can do some overnight (camping style) situations on a 19-22 monohull, cannot achieve that on a Hobie.
I started on a Hobie, the characteristics of sailing is much different on a monohull and took me a little bit to get the feel of a monohull. Any sailing experience is always good but they do not move through the water and wind the same.
I think I would have been better off starting on a smaller monohull than a Hobie when learning to sail. Your mileage may vary.
Plus you can do some overnight (camping style) situations on a 19-22 monohull, cannot achieve that on a Hobie.
Not U,
I'm only a toddler in the sailing world but I have grown an opinion in my two year tenure. After all, opinions are like eyebrows. Everybody has at least one!
My personal recommendation would be a large trailerable with a decent head.
Trailerable for flexibilty. You can drive at 65 MPH and reach foreign ports in hours not days. The draft would probably be less so you can get in areas that a larger boat would avoid. No fees for launching, stepping, storage or slip. The trade-off? Larger fixed keel boats probably handle better and the accommodations are more comfortable, but sometimes marginally. About the price. If a given trailerable at 25' was $6000 on the trailer, a 30 footer might be closure to $15000 (but look around).
The head? Make sure your bride likes it. It should be big enough to . . . . you know, without throwing out your back trying to reassemble yourself. It is quite a docking maneuver in my Lancer 25.
We haven't actually logged our trips (probably should thought) but I estimate that we have sailed 800 miles in two years in winds from dead calm to 35 knots. We've run aground, lost the dingy in heavy seas, been lost in fog, nearly lost the motor, lost the dingy prop (any pattern yet?), dragged anchor 4 times, paddled to shore with a dust pan duct taped to a boat pole, broke a winch off the coping, snapped all my mainsail slugs in a freshening breeze. To mention just some of the character of our trips. Yeah, it has been a blast, and a learning experience. But we've spent some great nights with the family, seen sunsets, whales, porpoises, seals, wild sheep and a host of birds that we would never have seen. There is nothing like a cup of hot coffee while relaxing in the cockpit on a cool morning. Or a cold beer as the sun sets over the mainland as the boat gently rocks to the swells. Boy am I running on or what?
To sum up in four words: "Big trailerable, nice john."
Fair Winds,
Don
I'm only a toddler in the sailing world but I have grown an opinion in my two year tenure. After all, opinions are like eyebrows. Everybody has at least one!
My personal recommendation would be a large trailerable with a decent head.
Trailerable for flexibilty. You can drive at 65 MPH and reach foreign ports in hours not days. The draft would probably be less so you can get in areas that a larger boat would avoid. No fees for launching, stepping, storage or slip. The trade-off? Larger fixed keel boats probably handle better and the accommodations are more comfortable, but sometimes marginally. About the price. If a given trailerable at 25' was $6000 on the trailer, a 30 footer might be closure to $15000 (but look around).
The head? Make sure your bride likes it. It should be big enough to . . . . you know, without throwing out your back trying to reassemble yourself. It is quite a docking maneuver in my Lancer 25.
We haven't actually logged our trips (probably should thought) but I estimate that we have sailed 800 miles in two years in winds from dead calm to 35 knots. We've run aground, lost the dingy in heavy seas, been lost in fog, nearly lost the motor, lost the dingy prop (any pattern yet?), dragged anchor 4 times, paddled to shore with a dust pan duct taped to a boat pole, broke a winch off the coping, snapped all my mainsail slugs in a freshening breeze. To mention just some of the character of our trips. Yeah, it has been a blast, and a learning experience. But we've spent some great nights with the family, seen sunsets, whales, porpoises, seals, wild sheep and a host of birds that we would never have seen. There is nothing like a cup of hot coffee while relaxing in the cockpit on a cool morning. Or a cold beer as the sun sets over the mainland as the boat gently rocks to the swells. Boy am I running on or what?
To sum up in four words: "Big trailerable, nice john."
Fair Winds,
Don
That was a great "running on" Don. Especially liked the dustpan oar. But I wanted to side with the cruiser set. Cats are a blast but there are some really nice trailerable cruisers for little money. I think that is a much better option for learning to sail if you plan to live on the boat.
Thank you all for the insight and dscribner, that sounds about like our off-road camping trips, just replace sails with tents...I've even managed to loose an anchor while off-roading (long story).
I will look into purchasing a small mono, the idea of the hobie is that it would fit in my garage and I wouldn't have to pay any storage. It may come down to learning the basics on a Hobie and then renting monos at the local lakes to start honing skills and seeing the handling difference.
In a nutshell we are talking about selling everything except my motorcycle and old CJ, moving to the gulf coast (anyone have a favorite port) and living aboard a sailboat. So if you have any info you would like to share on what to look for as far as type (sloop, ketch, etc), size for 2 adults that would eventually like to cross the Atlantic....eventually Again thank you all for the info and help
I will look into purchasing a small mono, the idea of the hobie is that it would fit in my garage and I wouldn't have to pay any storage. It may come down to learning the basics on a Hobie and then renting monos at the local lakes to start honing skills and seeing the handling difference.
In a nutshell we are talking about selling everything except my motorcycle and old CJ, moving to the gulf coast (anyone have a favorite port) and living aboard a sailboat. So if you have any info you would like to share on what to look for as far as type (sloop, ketch, etc), size for 2 adults that would eventually like to cross the Atlantic....eventually Again thank you all for the info and help
Bite your tongue.
We are members of a yacht club, but part of the club's 'drysail' fleet, since we launch to go sailing. Most of the other drysailers are cats (Hobie, Prindle, Nacra etc). Like the cats, we'll launch on a nice day and while they blast around we... go slower. :cry: Ok. But it's still fun.
At the end of the day, the cats have to go in. But we can, if we want, stay in another port, or anchor out. We've also visited 6 new lakes in 4 seasons... something that big cruising boats can't do without alot of time and/or expense.
Our 19' boat isn't a rocketship, but it is still a lively sail. Plus, the cabin is quite roomy for two people & enough gear to be out for a few days. There's a fixed head, and a portable butane stove. It's not a 41' Beneteau, but it is more comfortable than camping.
Back on topic... cats are big fun, no question. But if your goal is cruising/liveaboard, a small trailerable monohull will provide more relevent sailing experience, AND you can start doing overnights or weekend trips almost immediately
Yeah, that's what I'm saying! My Lancer 25 isn't fast like a cat, but all the places we've been makes up for it, I think. Plus, she'll sleep 5 in a pinch. 7 on a nice night! The shoal keel makes it though. We slowly motored up to a beach, and all the stink-potter were watching intently, waiting for my keel to bite. 10 feet, still going. 6 feet, mothers shielding the toddlers' eyes. 5 feet, the faint of heart began to swoon. 3 feet, I jumped out and hand set the anchor. And all conversation resumed.
And I can still take a 30 knot wind.
And I can still take a 30 knot wind.
That's a good strategy.... don't waste any more time... find a hobie and start having fun.... the rest will come.
I like the idea of the monohull to start of with. I agree that your Hobie experience will not necessarily lend itself to where you want to eventually end up. My port of call is Gulfport FL (Boca Ciega Yacht Club) and we have a plethora of live aboards at anchor in Boca Ciega Bay. In addition, the St Pete Municipal Marina permits live aboards. The sailing in our part of the Gulf is excellent with access to many interestin destinations. ( the keys, Dry Tortugas, etc)
Reef early,
>>ron<<
Reef early,
>>ron<<
Some thoughts
I'm in the small monohull keel boat group. Learning to sail is the key. Crewing for a relaxed skipper while racing will teach you a lot about setting sails. Consider a sailing course on cruising sailboats for both of you.
For your longer term choice, get aboard every boat you can to get a feel for the options, how you like them, and what your requirements and nice to have features are. Lie down in the bunks. While the best deals (and we think some of the best boats) are classic plastic, good old boats, go to some boat shows. They have no problem with you trying out the bunks, and you can get a good idea of what you get at different sizes and makers.
I think there is still a book by Marshall called "The Complete Guide to Choosing a Cruising Sailboat" in the chandlery on this site. It's good education about what to look for and about the trade-offs without being wedded to any of the manufacturers.
I'm in the small monohull keel boat group. Learning to sail is the key. Crewing for a relaxed skipper while racing will teach you a lot about setting sails. Consider a sailing course on cruising sailboats for both of you.
For your longer term choice, get aboard every boat you can to get a feel for the options, how you like them, and what your requirements and nice to have features are. Lie down in the bunks. While the best deals (and we think some of the best boats) are classic plastic, good old boats, go to some boat shows. They have no problem with you trying out the bunks, and you can get a good idea of what you get at different sizes and makers.
I think there is still a book by Marshall called "The Complete Guide to Choosing a Cruising Sailboat" in the chandlery on this site. It's good education about what to look for and about the trade-offs without being wedded to any of the manufacturers.
The first boat I sailed was my catalina 30 that I bought and started fixing. I put the main sail up, the wind blew and it started making headway. Everything else was just making it go faster.
My partner's dad has a hobie cat. They sold the lake house so I guess they will need someplace to store it. I am going to benevolently volunteer to keep it at my shop, having no ulterior motives of course.
My partner's dad has a hobie cat. They sold the lake house so I guess they will need someplace to store it. I am going to benevolently volunteer to keep it at my shop, having no ulterior motives of course.
Put me in the monocrawl keelboat club - if you plan to go cruising on a bigger boat. I have sailed catamarans a lot - and I now own a C22 and have sailed some on larger boats. If you want to move up to larger keelboats sooner, the I would look for a Catalina 22 or similar boat. More of the skills translate to a larger boat, especially the downwind sailing skills. Also, a small keelboat allows for camping style cruising which will make you more prepared to cruise in luxury aboard a larger yacht.
OTH: the catamaran is a blast to sail since it is so fast.
OC
Ron,
All I can do is laugh about your port of call (in a good way). I was born and raised in Gulfport and used to launch my dads 18' Trophy at the Marina there. Lots of memories, both good and bad, from that area...man I miss that early morning run out to the skyway bridge for tarpon After moving away with the military and now being landlocked in Missouri the sea is calling me back.
To all,
Thanks again.. I am starting to look at some mono hull boats and the problem with most of the 19'+ sailboats that I am finding is that they will not fit into a garage, the reasoning behind the hobie idea. Now I am not opposed to storage if I can find it cheap enough but that brings with it a whole mess of problems with it being outdoors and exposed to the elements. Does anyone know of one with a collapsible mast and that will fit in a garage? Now that winter is approaching the sailing season is slowing down so hopefully i can find a deal or two out this way.
Thanks again
Ok, I just looked and found these two boats that at least are mono hulled and will fit in the garage. Hopefully a good starter boat that I can play with until a bigger boat can be found. What do you guys think of either of these
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/boa/1939819213.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/boa/1968922027.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/boa/1982990197.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/boa/1939819213.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/boa/1968922027.html
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/boa/1982990197.html
WE bought our Lancer 25 in December of '08. No trailer to put her on. No truck to tow her with. Nobody in the family had ever sailed. (The whole thing was actually thought through pretty well though it probably doesn't sound it) "Go big of go home" as my son said. I don't regret it one bit. And when you start cruising, 25' is one of the smalller boats in the cove. Occassionally a 22' will sneak in but most are 30' and up. You will have a blast regardless of the size, no doubt. But IMHO, get a boat you can tow, launch and retreive easily and sleeps 4. Don't worry about experience. Take a class and get out there. I'm in Maine, which is reputed to be a difficult place to sail, and we're doing fine, and loving it.
I have a little experience with the laser. They can be a little squirrelly, but all in that size range are. They handle well in both lakes and ocean. They also do hold up really well in strong winds.... unless you are crewing with a guy in a regatta that thinks sailing it on the ragged edge is the only way to win. In a lot of wind you can make them sail calmly by just adjusting how you are pointing into the wind. They sail downwind very solid. The shape handles waves very well.
If you want a little step up than a laser, look into a Snipe. A sailboat with a jib sail is always going to be a better trainer when you move up in size. Both have a large following and you can find a lot of club level races for both. Both will make your sailing skills much better than starting on a larger boat. Every mistake runs the risk of getting wet.
I know about getting a little wet having some fun on a scow. This is on a calm day on our Johnson Scow. It is a 12 foot. BTW it takes a REAL man to wear a pink life vest while sailing a gay pride mainsail.
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I've bought, fixed up and sold 5 sailboats in the past 10 years. Here is what I've learned about the boat market.
You want to buy in September/October (NOW). Everyone who has not put their boat in the water for 5 years decides to sell in the fall. So the market is flush and you have a lot of good choices at good prices.
SECOND! Look at the trailer and motor (AND SAILS). You can get a decent boat for a few $K but the trailer will cost you $3-5K and likewise for the motor. However you can often find a good boat on a decent trailer with a functioning OB for a few hundred more than a boat without the trailer. A dirty boat can be cleaned & painted, cushions can be recovered, cracks and holes can be fiber glassed over etc, but you will start spending real money if you have to commission a custom trailer, BUY NEW SAILS and you have to buy a new OB.
You want to buy in September/October (NOW). Everyone who has not put their boat in the water for 5 years decides to sell in the fall. So the market is flush and you have a lot of good choices at good prices.
SECOND! Look at the trailer and motor (AND SAILS). You can get a decent boat for a few $K but the trailer will cost you $3-5K and likewise for the motor. However you can often find a good boat on a decent trailer with a functioning OB for a few hundred more than a boat without the trailer. A dirty boat can be cleaned & painted, cushions can be recovered, cracks and holes can be fiber glassed over etc, but you will start spending real money if you have to commission a custom trailer, BUY NEW SAILS and you have to buy a new OB.
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