New spinnaker masthead or fractional

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Jan 22, 2008
3
Beneteau 41s5 Sag Harbor
I have a 1990 Beneteau 41s5 and I need a new spinnaker. I'm debating skipping the spectacle and running it from the masthead. The air seems to be getting lighter and lighter every summer. Has anyone tried this? My sail maker voiced a safety concern about the rig. It is a double spreader w/ diagonal rod rigging. I'm also thinking of getting a deck mounted bowsprit and changing to an asymmetrical kite.
Any thoughts or experience with this is appreciated.
Happy New Year!
 
Nov 24, 2012
586
My concerns would be in two areas. 1)Running the halyard through the masthead sheave would result in wrapping the spinnaker around the forestay when gybing. 2) the pole mounted to the deck would need a lot of reinforcement even of you attach to the anchor roller (which is not designed for upward forces). I looked into the latter for my 423 but decided to stay with the current arrangement.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
This topic comes up all the time in the First 36.7 fleet.. it is currently against class rules but some do it for PHRF racing in light air areas. Reaching in heavy airs would be hard of the rig, temping failure at the hounds but sounds like you know not to tempt that. No real downside if you are not class racing. Your rating will take a small hit in PHRF but that's to be expected.

One neat trick is to use an adjustable halyard restrainer; let the halyard fly anywhere between full fractional and masthead. Selden rescribes it in the Yacthing catalog; take a look.

We fly an asym off a sprit when cruising in light airs. Easy and fast. Not great for racing on these boats because typically the VMG is never that far wide. But when you are cruising, fast is fun.

Both Sparcraft and Selden make deck mounted poles that are up to the task.
 
Jan 22, 2008
3
Beneteau 41s5 Sag Harbor
CaptnTJ, Thank you for the consideration, currently the foreguy is deck mounted so I think structurally we can compensate especially if we use a plates under the deck rather than just washers. As far as the jibes, it would be clear of the fore stay regardless. The halyard will be above it so we can jibe by running the sheets in front of the furled headsail (could do "outside" jibes too I guess, but that would be a lot of pulling really fast to get is all the way around before wrapping on itself). The main reason I want to go up is to clear the headstay and do "inside" jibes.

Jackdaw, you are right I'm only racing PHRF not one design. There is at most a handful of this boat on the entire US east coast. Yikes!!! Failure at the hounds conjures up a horrible image of the mast snapping in half forward hitting the water and sweeping aft. If I get that meaning correct.
The halyard restrainer sounds promising. Although I hate the idea adding more holes to the mast. I've been looking around locally, the Club Swan42 runs at the masthead and there are a bunch of J-Boats 105 is in between as you suggest and the 109 and 111 are masthead.
I flew a used J-133 asym for a about 45 seconds as a test in 2.5 knots. It drove the bow down about 18" the clew almost reached the cockpit and we snapped the aluminum whisker pole. But it was massive!
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,792
- -- -Bayfield
I race a fractional rigged boat that has both masthead and fractional spinnakers and the class rules allow for it, but the mast is built to handle the masthead spinnaker in a blow. That would be the biggest concern I would have. In addition, if it is a symmetrical kite (not asymmetrical), then you need two poles to accommodate both sizes (one longer and one shorter) and you should not use one telescoping pole, but two fixed poles.
 
Jun 4, 2004
57
- - DFW
CaptnTJ, Thank you for the consideration, currently the foreguy is deck mounted so I think structurally we can compensate especially if we use a plates under the deck rather than just washers. As far as the jibes, it would be clear of the fore stay regardless. The halyard will be above it so we can jibe by running the sheets in front of the furled headsail (could do "outside" jibes too I guess, but that would be a lot of pulling really fast to get is all the way around before wrapping on itself). The main reason I want to go up is to clear the headstay and do "inside" jibes.

Jackdaw, you are right I'm only racing PHRF not one design. There is at most a handful of this boat on the entire US east coast. Yikes!!! Failure at the hounds conjures up a horrible image of the mast snapping in half forward hitting the water and sweeping aft. If I get that meaning correct.
The halyard restrainer sounds promising. Although I hate the idea adding more holes to the mast. I've been looking around locally, the Club Swan42 runs at the masthead and there are a bunch of J-Boats 105 is in between as you suggest and the 109 and 111 are masthead.
I flew a used J-133 asym for a about 45 seconds as a test in 2.5 knots. It drove the bow down about 18" the clew almost reached the cockpit and we snapped the aluminum whisker pole. But it was massive!
The foreguy fitting on the deck does not carry much load typically when running with a symmetrical chute. So, I'm having a difficult time picturing the relevance of that to the rigging for a gennaker. If you were referring to the forestay, it's load is likely carried by a tang going down the bow of the boat, either externally or internally.

There are several deck mounted sprit options that you can use if you want to go that route. The main purpose of the sprit is to increase "J" and get your sail ahead of the jib, that is create separation between the sails.

Having owned and sailed boats with bow sprits, I'm having a hard time seeing where flying a J133 assy on your boat was a good idea. And, secondly, having a hard time understanding why a whisker pole was used at all. The J133's "J" measurement with sprit extended is significanly longer than your "J" measurement. Thus, using a sail from that boat would give you a sail that is simply too large for your rig. It's no wonder it pushed the bow down. You're lucky you didn't pull your rig down. A properly fitted assy that is properly sailed will pull the bow out of the water some, depending on the boat.

Finally, unless you are grand prix racing, skip the pole when flying a gennaker on your boat. I've flown assymetrical chutes tacked to a spinnaker pole when racing on a boat with both types of spinnakers. It is a hassle to gybe an assy using a pole due to the many control lines, and is beyond the skill level of the average PHRF sailor. Better to use an add on sprit or tack it to the bow.

Finally, how other boats are rigged will not tell you whether your boat can withstand the forces of a mast head chute when it was designed for a frac chute. Each boat is engineered for the sail plan drawn by the architect, and no two boats are the same. The big issue is the stiffness of the mast above the hounds and how well the tip is supported. Do something not very smart and you will have a bit of that mast dangling from up top along with a ruined sail or two.

Good luck!
 
Jan 22, 2008
1
Beneteau 41s5 MD
1990 Beneteau 41s5 bowsprit

Christopher
I also have a 1990 Beneteau 41s5 and I want to add a bowsprit. have you decided to move forward with this, if so which spar have you chosen, what length, etc. please email me at nsurgery@gmail.com, or text/call me at 301-351-0774.Text is my preferred way to communicate. Gus
I race in Chesapeake Bay just around the buoys - cruising class but want to move up
 
Mar 5, 2012
20
Beneteau First 47.7 Parry Sound, ON
Guys, I am in the process of doing this on my First 47.7.

I have added the sprit. I looked at the Selden and other pre-built solutions and decided they were not what I was looking for.

I worked with GMT Composites to weld fittings on my anchor roller to mount the carbon pole. The pole projects only 3' past the stem.

I had to remove the anchor roller and bow plate to ship it to them for the work. I have installed the modified anchor roller at this point. Next step is to install the bobstay.

I am going to fly a Code 0 on a furler and an asymmetrical off the sprit.

I have been communicating with Sparcraft who made my mast about the hoist height for these sails. Based on everything so far, I think that I am going to raise the hoist to the black band.

Sparcraft says that above 15 knots I will need to have lots of backstay tension.

Working with my sailmaker, I am going to have to replace my spinnaker halyard to reduce stretch as the new sails are bigger.

I guess my message is that this project is rather involved and that it requires some research.
 

CHM

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Oct 30, 2011
70
Beneteau 432 Merritt Island
Beneteau has instructions for a gennaker option. The tack is off the bowroller through a block and back to the cockpit through a jammer. The halyard is run through a block at the masthead ahead of the forestay, but my boat has the older masthead so i use the masthead sheave. Sheets are run on the outside aft to the transom where you attach to blocks to thentoe rail and bring them backnthrough the winches used for your head sail.
 
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