With the winter lay up and wondering what to do first. I am wondering where the group would see the best performance gain new main and working Jib or a Folding Prop? The boats an 86 with orginal sails and needing replaced. With only having enough money for one or the other. Wanting to do more but my pockets are not that deep. I will be getting UK Tape Drive sails. Thanks Cliff
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Sam Lust
Where's the Question?
Go for sails. It IS a SAILBOAT, isn't it? You'll be amazed at the performance mprovement with good sails.
Go for sails. It IS a SAILBOAT, isn't it? You'll be amazed at the performance mprovement with good sails.
What is your budget for this season?
Cliff: What are you working with for a budget for this season? The reason I ask is there is quite a bit of difference ($$$) in a suit of sails and a folding prop. Why do you THINK you want a folding prop. I would not think that you are a racer if you are sailing on a set of 15 year old sails. A folding prop is not going to do a lot for you. I'd have to agree with Sam, there is not a much better upgrade for a sailboat other than sails and a bottom job.
Cliff: What are you working with for a budget for this season? The reason I ask is there is quite a bit of difference ($$$) in a suit of sails and a folding prop. Why do you THINK you want a folding prop. I would not think that you are a racer if you are sailing on a set of 15 year old sails. A folding prop is not going to do a lot for you. I'd have to agree with Sam, there is not a much better upgrade for a sailboat other than sails and a bottom job.
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Cliff Ruckstuhl
I am a racer
I am a racer and want the boat to sail at it's best. I just bought the boat late last season. After having a Tripp 26 and sailng very fast the 28.5 was a good trade off boat. Nice lines a good PHRF number and room for all the crew to sleep.
I am a racer and want the boat to sail at it's best. I just bought the boat late last season. After having a Tripp 26 and sailng very fast the 28.5 was a good trade off boat. Nice lines a good PHRF number and room for all the crew to sleep.
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Tim Leighton
GO FOR THE SAILS!
Cliff: I absolutely agree with Steve and Sam. I pondered the same question last spring and it literally took seconds to decide on a new suit of sails. You sail in fresh water so local experience with folding props may be different, but I haven't talked with anyone who has been absolutely happy with their folding props in salt water (these are cruisers who don't normally dive the bottom before setting out every time to wipe the hull clean and ensure proper operation of the folding mechanism). One friend of mine (a livaboard cruiser) spent well over $3000 for a 3-bladed folding/feathering prop (not sure what make), and used it for less than a season before putting his old prop back on! Just couldn't keep the crap from fouling the workings of the prop. Even if folding props were perfect, I'd still go for the sails for all the reason mentioned earlier. In addition, your boat will look much better! My experience replacing 15 year old sails with a Quantum 135% geona and 2x2 main has been nothing but superb. I couldn't believe how much better (faster) TIDE sailed...neither could other members of our club! Definitely go for the sails - look good and sail fast! Smooth sailing. Tim Leighton
Cliff: I absolutely agree with Steve and Sam. I pondered the same question last spring and it literally took seconds to decide on a new suit of sails. You sail in fresh water so local experience with folding props may be different, but I haven't talked with anyone who has been absolutely happy with their folding props in salt water (these are cruisers who don't normally dive the bottom before setting out every time to wipe the hull clean and ensure proper operation of the folding mechanism). One friend of mine (a livaboard cruiser) spent well over $3000 for a 3-bladed folding/feathering prop (not sure what make), and used it for less than a season before putting his old prop back on! Just couldn't keep the crap from fouling the workings of the prop. Even if folding props were perfect, I'd still go for the sails for all the reason mentioned earlier. In addition, your boat will look much better! My experience replacing 15 year old sails with a Quantum 135% geona and 2x2 main has been nothing but superb. I couldn't believe how much better (faster) TIDE sailed...neither could other members of our club! Definitely go for the sails - look good and sail fast! Smooth sailing. Tim Leighton
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Ed Schenck
You already made the decision.
Your post said that you were buying UK sails, so the decision is made. If you shopped for sails you could also afford the prop I think. I just ordered a jib from Lee Sails(see Link) and saved over $900. compared to my North loft. That savings is about what I paid three years ago for my Flex-O-Fold prop(http://www.flexofold.dk/).
Your post said that you were buying UK sails, so the decision is made. If you shopped for sails you could also afford the prop I think. I just ordered a jib from Lee Sails(see Link) and saved over $900. compared to my North loft. That savings is about what I paid three years ago for my Flex-O-Fold prop(http://www.flexofold.dk/).
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Cliff Ruckstuhl
Sails
I had made the decsion to buy a main and a 98% Jib. It was either going to be the 98% or the Folding Prop. The 150 I have is a North with some rainbow colors that go vertical and I really hate looking at it. But it is the newest sail I have. The previous owner cut 3 feet off the top of the 110 so he could see under it. This was the previous owners first and last sail boat he was headed back to the power boat world. So my sail choices will be racing sails. After having UK Tape Drive Sails on my other boats I can't go back to Dacron. MY last boat by the way was a Tripp 26 and it was a full blown race boat and it was a rocket. It is allot of fun blasting along at 12 knots. But the biggest problem with it was no room down below just a place for three to sleep and that was it. Cliff
I had made the decsion to buy a main and a 98% Jib. It was either going to be the 98% or the Folding Prop. The 150 I have is a North with some rainbow colors that go vertical and I really hate looking at it. But it is the newest sail I have. The previous owner cut 3 feet off the top of the 110 so he could see under it. This was the previous owners first and last sail boat he was headed back to the power boat world. So my sail choices will be racing sails. After having UK Tape Drive Sails on my other boats I can't go back to Dacron. MY last boat by the way was a Tripp 26 and it was a full blown race boat and it was a rocket. It is allot of fun blasting along at 12 knots. But the biggest problem with it was no room down below just a place for three to sleep and that was it. Cliff
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Dakota Jim
On the other hand . . . <grin>
Your sails are getting old and probably should be replaced, but if you sail much in light air, the feathering prop will increase your speed substantially. Now the currrent economy is such that we need to spend to get it going . . . and you only live once . . . so go for it and buy both <grin>
Your sails are getting old and probably should be replaced, but if you sail much in light air, the feathering prop will increase your speed substantially. Now the currrent economy is such that we need to spend to get it going . . . and you only live once . . . so go for it and buy both <grin>
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Jerry
You can do both, I have one for Sale cheep!
I have a 1986 31'with a 18 HP. I think to folding prop I bought with the boat and never used will fit you boat also. $250 plus shipping takes it.
I have a 1986 31'with a 18 HP. I think to folding prop I bought with the boat and never used will fit you boat also. $250 plus shipping takes it.
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Cliff Ruckstuhl
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Bob Howie
Go with sails
Ok...some arm-chair engineers and physicists out there are gonna pillory me for this, but screw the prop; go for the sails if the budget question is one or the other. Your boat's a SAIL boat, not a PROP boat and the drag produced by your prop is inconsequential when compared to a new suite of sails which, in the main, are the primary "engine" of your boat. True, props are important and folding props are extremely efficient compared to their fixed-pitch cousins and produce somewhat less drag when folded up, but your boat is driven by its sails more than it is your prop. Your lack of performance can probably be more closely linked to blown sails rather than a draggy prop. If you are not racing, a single knot or two isn't going to make a really big difference on the fixed-pitch/folding prop debate. Besides, a new suite of sails will probably make up that difference anyway. Good luck.
Ok...some arm-chair engineers and physicists out there are gonna pillory me for this, but screw the prop; go for the sails if the budget question is one or the other. Your boat's a SAIL boat, not a PROP boat and the drag produced by your prop is inconsequential when compared to a new suite of sails which, in the main, are the primary "engine" of your boat. True, props are important and folding props are extremely efficient compared to their fixed-pitch cousins and produce somewhat less drag when folded up, but your boat is driven by its sails more than it is your prop. Your lack of performance can probably be more closely linked to blown sails rather than a draggy prop. If you are not racing, a single knot or two isn't going to make a really big difference on the fixed-pitch/folding prop debate. Besides, a new suite of sails will probably make up that difference anyway. Good luck.
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Matt Sanderson
Regarding the fixed prop
It's my understanding that the Lake Ontario PHRF rates boats based on a folding prop as standard equipment. You get a 3 second per mile credit with a fixed prop (and another 3 spm if you have the shoal draft keel, BTW). I would assume LE PHRF would do the same. You can always ask them. I agree with the other posts that new sails would show the greatest immediate performance improvement. However, after that, there's no doubt that a folding prop and smooth bottom will add the final tenths of a knot in light to medium air. Looks like you found a reasonably priced folding prop, too! Question: Why only a 98% tape drive jib? I'd think you'd want at least a 150% #1 genoa for racing if you're springing for tape drive sails.
It's my understanding that the Lake Ontario PHRF rates boats based on a folding prop as standard equipment. You get a 3 second per mile credit with a fixed prop (and another 3 spm if you have the shoal draft keel, BTW). I would assume LE PHRF would do the same. You can always ask them. I agree with the other posts that new sails would show the greatest immediate performance improvement. However, after that, there's no doubt that a folding prop and smooth bottom will add the final tenths of a knot in light to medium air. Looks like you found a reasonably priced folding prop, too! Question: Why only a 98% tape drive jib? I'd think you'd want at least a 150% #1 genoa for racing if you're springing for tape drive sails.
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Cliff Ruckstuhl
Matt
The 150 I have is not a Tape Drive but it is the best sail on the boat. The 110 is Junk so It is a new main and 98 this year and a 150 next year. Cliff
The 150 I have is not a Tape Drive but it is the best sail on the boat. The 110 is Junk so It is a new main and 98 this year and a 150 next year. Cliff
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